Formula SAE 2007 Competition: Detroit - Updates, Pictures, Stories, and More

[James Waltman]

It's that time again.

Please share if you have any information.

I can help host pictures if anyone needs it – just email them to me (see my profile).

Good luck to everyone.

[Dan G]

Its empty now, but won't be in a few days...

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/

I can also help host if people need it. Just click the "register" link at the top right of that gallery page and include something about FSAE in your registration info and I'll set up your own account.

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Helsinki has stayed at Oakland University for few days and pictures/stories from that stay can be found from our website.
From that site you can also find pictures from every becoming day. I'll inform here after every update.

[RagingGrandpa]

Anything out of the ordinary burning people in Tech? A lot of teams waited in line all afternoon and didn't make it in the building...

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

First update from the competition site is ready.
I didn't have the time to take that much of photos of technical stuff, but there should be photos of every car that I saw which wasn't covered with tarp.
You'll find 'em at our website.
Tomorrow I'll put new ones there.

[Dan G]

Nice pictures Kimmo. Looks like your car turned out as gorgeous as it usually does...

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/15_05_07/slides/IMG_2879.JPG

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/15_05_07/slides/IMG_2880.JPG

PSU is looking good too...

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/16_05_07/slides/IMG_3023.JPG

Could be UTA's return to glory...

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/16_05_07/slides/IMG_3044.JPG

Western Wash brought another "tube frame" car...

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/16_05_07/slides/IMG_3056.JPG

And looks like Rutgers is joining the aero club...

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/16_05_07/slides/IMG_3076.JPG


And I can't resist, hopefully this year the UM-D guys are going to surprise even more people with a more reliable and powerful engine. Good luck guys...

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/16_05_07/slides/IMG_3051.JPG

[Wildcat_Alum]

I have some quick pics of UofArizona before they left town, I'll try to update my site with any pics I get sent, and feel free to pass them on to me if you need a place to host your pictures.

I'd love it if people can comment on any of the pictures (new or old), adding universities/drivers/specs.

http://jonschwab.smugmug.com/Formula%20SAE

Enjoy, and good luck Arizona.

[HenningO]

updates please!

[Tony K]

Well... it has been miserably cold and windy, most of the paddock is a giant gravel pit, the event schedule is impressively crammed into limited hours that we can be on site, a decent amount of people have yet to pass noise for some strange reason (even TU Graz had to try the noise test multiple times before they passed), and did I mention how cold it is?

Also, with the super-condensed schedule, gone are the days of finishing out the line of cars after the cut-off time; now it's the case where if you're in line at the deadline, then you're out of luck since events close at the specified time regardless of the number of cars in line.

We were caught midway through tech last night (as were a decent amount of cars) and had to finish up this morning which made it quite fun to work on finishing all of today's events. We were also one of the teams that got caught out by noise (111 db), so tomorrow looks to be quite the monumental task since we still need to work on finishing up brake and noise in the morning before we can go on to the dynamic events (which are also on a hectic schedule).

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like holding an event with 100+ schools at a secure location such as a manufacturer test track that requires limited access isn't really a good idea. Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Henning, you get what you ask for.
There's another bunch of pictures at our website to look at.
Last pictures are from design semi-finals, from which I just came back.
Sorry I can't give you all the teams at the semis(I was a bit too busy with our own car) but what I can tell you is that three European teams were in it. 2 x Graz and us.
About the teams that weren't at the semis, couple of regulars were missing: Cornell and UWA.
Tomorrow will the real racing begin. For now it looks like that weather will be on our side, and everybody gets a good clean run.

[HenningO]

Glad to hear that the weather is changing for the better.

Kimmo, car looks great, I'm holding my thumbs for you guys (Jussi, Mikko and everybody else), it's time for you guys to win...! (Because you are going to be second after us in England http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) I know you guys have the sisu!

[Big Bird]

Cold? In Detroit?

Good luck to all competing, from what I've seen of the photos on here and on other threads there are some nicely prepared cars at the event this year. I feel awkward about picking out individual teams, but best of luck to the UWA lads and also our good friends at Oakland - the most generous and helpful hosts you could ever imagine. And to everyone else we had the pleasure of competing with last year, best of luck to you too. Sorry our guys can't be there, but I'm afraid budget just wouldn't stretch that far.

Cheers all, have a beer for us

[James Waltman]

So, I haven't been to an event at Romeo.
It sure seems like it makes it much harder for people to get updates out.

By now we should have results for the static events and some early word on dynamic events...

The suspense is killing me.

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

Originally posted by James Waltman:
So, I haven't been to an event at Romeo.
It sure seems like it makes it much harder for people to get updates out.

By now we should have results for the static events and some early word on dynamic events...

The suspense is killing me.

Same here! People...whats going on in Romeo???

[Matt Herset]

The location @ Romeo is an amazing. There are a couple of problems with it: 1. the majority of the paddocks are in a gravel parking lot and 2. there is no or very little access to the internet @ the location(1.5+ miles from front gate and +/-10 miles to romeo). Ford has pretty tight control( for good reason) of the area surrounding the Competition area.

I know last year I wasn't able to post anything until I was back in my motel, so I am assuming the same is true this year.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Originally posted by James Waltman:
The suspense is killing me.

Dude, we need to get you some help. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif FSAE-aholics Anonamous would be great... except we would all sit around and talk about cars.

-Kirk

[Spaxa]

Hi ...

any news about the first dynamic events ... ??? sitting here in front of the computer and waiting just to be informed :-)

are there any teams with live-update of their homepage ???

[Joseph]

Just another X-FSAE guy, WAITING PATIENTLY FOR UPDATES!!!!!
Design Semi-Finals, Who is in?

[smb96]

Tu Graz(Austria) is in the design semifinals. Sorry, it's the only one i know

[franz887]

Tu Graz (Austria) is in Design final! (top 5)

[bigtoyota9]

Talking to the guys from NC State, they won acceleration with a 3.95. So thats acceration in 2007 and skid pad in 2006. Congrats to the Wolfpack!!!!!!!

[kwancho]

Kimmo, are those little, tiny wings on the back?
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/FSAE07/album/17_05_07/slides/IMG_3197.html
Do they... do anything?

[pengulns2001]

anybody know where to check for the schedule tomorrow or the autocross finishing results for today. we (LTU car 60) still doesnt know if we are running in the morning or afternoon

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Another update done.
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/

From the end you can find pictures of the presented scores.

If someone wants some of these photos full size, please put a private message or show up to Helsinki's paddock tomorrow.

Henning, it'll be hard thing to win, since today's acceleration and skidpad went so poorly. But we try!

Geoff, you're totally right on about Oakland.
(If/)When we tomorrow will finish the endurance, it couldn't be done without our dear friends of Oakland U.

[Matt N]

Here's top autocross times determining endurance run order. Slower teams in autocross go 1st heat in morning, rest go at around noon.

http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/a...31158/No/t100101.htm (http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/announcements/docProfile/100101/d20070519031158/No/t100101.htm)

Matt

[RagingGrandpa]

Friday photo dump (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Elovelljc/MR007/Friday/), including cost, presentation, design, skidpad, and accel scores.

[BamaJeff]

I guess I posted my photos in the wrong thread. Whoops...

Here you go... (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/76310136041)

[95M3Racer]

RPI got second in Accel, and also made semi finals.

Umich Ann arbor made Design finals as well.

[Dan G]

409 shots uploading to my gallery now...

http://evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/

I tried to get a shot of as many cars/teams as I could exiting the group photo shoot, that should be the last 100 pictures or so.

Be patient, they're uploading slowly. I uploaded compressed 1024x768 shots, I have bigger res versions if anyone is interested.

I didn't sort/delete any of these, so apologies for some of the HORRIBLE shots.

[Erick Scarpone]

Hi we really wants to say to University of New Hamsshire Thanks a lot to borrow us the engine, we pass all day working on the car and at last we got it working and tomorrow we continue with the competition, thanks a lot again, we really apreciated. Tomorrow we have a gift for you, some venezuelan ron and chocolate, and when you come to visit at venezuela well hook you up with our playboy venezuela sponsorhip http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Gurkaran]

Cost 1 University of Arizona 93.31
2 University of Michigan-Dearborn 90.8
3 Rochester University of Technology 90
4 Northern Illinois University 89.95
5 University of Wisconsin - Madison 89.45

Presentation 1 Vanderbilt University 75
2 University of Western Australia 74.4
3 Cornell University 74.3
4 Carleton University 73.5
5 University of Applied Sciences Graz 72.8

Acceleration 1 Northern Corolina - Raleigh 75
2 Rensselaer Polytechnic 72.36
3 University of Western Australia 71.15
4 Penn State University 69.73
5 Cornell University 68.98

Skid-pad 1 University of Applied Sciences Graz 50
2 Penn State University 48.03
3 Kookmin University 46.02
4 University of Oklahoma 45
5 University of Toronto 44.84

Autocross 1 University of Texas-Arlington 150
2 University of Oklahoma ?
3 Oxford Brookes University ?
4 University of Western Australia ?
5 University of Wisconsin - Madison ?

Those are the top five, and points they received, for each event. Thanks mainly to Helsinki's website updates. Thanks to everyone else who's posted pictures as well. Hope someone can point out any changes and missing information. Cheers.

[Joseph]

Matt N,

Thanks for the update.

"I'm getting out of the engine game in FSAE. There's way more lap time in tire/suspension/chassis. "

If you really want better lap times you need good drivers and driver training. I know OU has the best drivers and ...... maybe UTA is second : )

X-FSAE guy

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Last upload from the competition is on our site.
I'll photoshop some of the photos and add some more pictures when we get back home.
Sorry there are not that many teams presented at these photos. The reason why there are no pictures of other cars after ours can be seen from the enduro results.

[fade]

sorry to see that. what did you use to retain/preload your bearings?

[JR @ CFS]

Lads, our hearts go out to you! An excellent effort and we look forward to seeing you at FSUK and the Baltic Open this year! Hopefully we can put on a good event and afterparty for you when you get to Gothenburg...how does a Sauna with some redbull girls sound right now? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[TGrau]

Which cars made the Road & Track event?

[Gurkaran]

Does anyone have the Autocross points summary? Also any design results...i.e who is in the finals, who made semi's etc. Cheers

[HA11S]

Anyone have the brochure(pdf etc..) including specslike this (http://www.jsae.or.jp/formula/jp/4th/program/4th_program.pdf)?

This is 2006 FSAE Japan's.

[Lexusteck]

Does anyone have the Autocross results, prelim or otherwise?

[BeaverGuy]

I have to give the Oregon State team a big hand of applause. In having a positive score in all events, something that an Oregon State team hadn't done since '99 and is only the 3rd time ever having also occured in '96. It is also their third highest score behind those two years as well.

I also want to congratulate them for their 5th fastest overal unadjusted endurance time. Which is soured for using too much fuel and encuring the 4 minute penalty.

Good job guys and congratulations to everyone that competed.

[Cherian Thomas]

Congratulations UWA!

This team just keeps getting better. IMO, the current car is quite simply the best FSAE car ever. Excellent drivers to boot. A well-deserved win for all concerned.

Can't wait to see what you guys bring out next year.

Regards,

Cherian Thomas

Edit: Apparently the "very preliminary" results weren't right. Congratulations to UW Madison!

[Gurkaran]

Congratulations to Wisconsin. A consistently good effort all round.

Well done to all the other teams as well, from here in Australia it was awesome to hear of your cars and the level of competition this year.

To our team up in Detroit...well done, you boys are champs, great effort.

[pablo180]

Congratulations to Wisconsin.
Just out of curiosity, were any of the teams in the top ten using a single cyl? If I remember correctly, all of those teams were running a 4 cyl right?

Anyone have the weights of the vehicles?

[skillet]

any details on the endurance event and design finals?

[BStoney]

Endurance w/ Fuel Economy:

1) University of Western Australia
2) University of Wisconsin-Madison
3) University of Toronto
4) Univeristy of Cincinnati
5) Rochester Institute of Technology

Design Finals:
1) University of Wisconsin-Madison
2) Graz Univeristy of Technology (TU Graz)
3) University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
4) Kansas University
5) Penn State University

[Fil]

can anyone share some insight into why UWA did not make design finals? It seems quite strange that they didnt make the cut.

[ad]

Originally posted by Fil:
can anyone share some insight into why UWA did not make design finals? It seems quite strange that they didnt make the cut.

It does seem alittle strange, but maybe they were beaten? ETS normally make design finals and they didnt make it, and then again...

Going from the disaster that was the WEST comp design evaluation last year some teams that made design finals didnt really deserve to be there... why? because it was the best 1 or 2 teams from EACH GROUP that went through, meaning if there were 5 good teams in one group only 1 or two could proceed, while say another group, one or two teams may proceed even though one of the ones who missed out should have been in their place...

Anyone got anymore pictures of the event?

How about Cornell's car, i havent been able to find any of them.

[Dan G]

I weeded through 800 shots to remove the bad ones, there's nearly 700 left that aren't completely crap.

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/

Here's one of Cornell's car, I only got them the second day (start on page 8)...

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/d/14015-2/IMG_3610.jpg

They had a cool intake design...

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/d/14141-2/IMG_3656.jpg

I also posted three videos on Gootube. First two from endurance...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3717873072314953226

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8471781841907151396

And the last from an unsanctioned nosecone race in the paddocks...

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/d/13982-2/IMG_3597.jpg

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1802723023134629431


My best shots were from endurance, I was messing around with panning/motion blur. Some came out great, others were just blurred. I left some of the fully blurred ones in there, as its hard to tell when there's "too much". Those sweet blur shots start on page 9...

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/?g2_page=9

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/d/14273-2/IMG_3704.jpg

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/d/14375-2/IMG_3743.jpg

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/d/14672-2/IMG_3873.jpg


Again, the full gallery URL is here...

http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/

Feel free to hotlink, copy, repost, whatever with these pictures. There's 1024x versions uploaded for each one (click the link at the top left of the individual image page) and I also have 2592x1944 res versions of each that I can upload upon request.

Great job everyone. Can't wait to see some of you again at the west event next month.

[flavorPacket]

Originally posted by Fil:
can anyone share some insight into why UWA did not make design finals? It seems quite strange that they didnt make the cut.

Being on a team that made design finals (and probably surprised everybody in doing so, including ourselves and the judges), I asked a number of judges why western australia didn't make it to semis. The majority of them said that the car was too similar to previous ones, and that the team members in Detroit could not justify all of their design decisions.

It's a shame, but after speaking with a number of guys on the UWA team, I'm sure they'll regroup and come back with a car that's even faster.

[Dr Claw]

Smoking hot picutres Dan http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Glad you cought some pictures of Lawrence Tech's measly 3 laps of endourance. The car was styling at least! Thanks again for some good work/fun http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Michael Jones]

Not too many Cornell pics from endurance. We probably had the quickest DNF in history - loose battery cable disconnected on the first turn. Packaging one's battery in the driver bay's good for weight distribution, but can cause the driver to dislodge it on entry, I guess. Oops.

Cornell's not making secondary was largely due to our chassis leader not making it in time for a 8:30am slot. Competition week is also exam week, and some people have to stick behind until Wednesday or later. A few wrong turns in Canada, and you have a weak presentation in the running. Oops.

Cornell's DQ in accel was due to a last minute panicked attempt to get a run in - the car was having starting issues in the dynamic area, and was worked on until the last moment. It worked, but we forgot to put on of the sidepods on. The course workers didn't notice (and neither did the team until they went back to run skidpad, and realized the problem) but it was caught on protest. A technicality, yes, but of course still valid reason for DQ. Oops again.

Too bad, since the car was certainly fast when it was running (our auto-x driver would've had the third best time on the course, and the enduro course was probably much better suited to our car... the winged UTA and Oklahoma were awesome on the more open auto-x track to be sure.)

Alas, the devil is in the details, and we proved that pretty well this year.

Congrats to Wisconsin - nice to see a team with a lot of second-place finishes (at least two I can remember, and a lot of top-ten in there as well) finally pull it off.

I can't recall anyone winning based on final design before - hell of a way to do it. That must have been a stressful morning.

[Chris Davin]

Congratulations to UW-Madison on their victory. They've been a consistently strong team over many years, so I'd say this win was a long time coming.

Personally, I was pleasantly surprised by the number of smaller teams that seemed to perform very well. Particularly, I there seemed to be a great number of fast autocross times. The aggregate quality of the cars seems to improve every year.

[RacingManiac]

my slap-together photo gallery, consists of mostly Toronto's on track shot plus whoever else was running around our timeslot(UWA, UTA, Oklahoma, UW-M, TUG, Helsinki..)....

http://supercarfreak.net/gallery/album623

[Alan]

My congrats to all the schools that found success this year whether it be winning outright or just getting there with a completed car.

On a personal note it was gratifying to see so many of the top schools running Goodyears.

[Jeff Curtis]

I want to say that it was a complete travesty that University of Western Australia did not make design semi-finals. I got the opportunity to talk to several members after they were eliminated from design. There were no more knowledgeable students on the topics of race car dynamics and what it takes to design, construct, test and tune a fast race car.

I am not sure what design cue the W. Australian team was in during preliminary design, but there must have been a serious oversight by those judges.

For example, there were teams in design semi-finals that didn't even know how to properly adjust their dampers, there were teams that didn't even have any viable test data for their cars, and as far as I know there was not a single team that had an effective use of simulation to try to optimize the design of their car. All of the above were done by Western Australia.

I am not trying to say that Wisconsin-Madison did not deserve their position atop the FSAE ladder; they were one of the few that were in the league of Western Australia in both design and on track performance.

I know that I will potentially stir a great bit of controversy with this post, but I only am doing it as recognition of what the Western Australian team accomplished with their car. I feel that if more of the judges had the opportunity to speak with the team members, they would have come to the same conclusion as me.

I will end by saying that in 2001, Cornell missed the design finals in what was apparently an oversight by the design judges. To this day, that car's design continues to be one of the competition's most commonly copied designs. This year was another example the specific ignorance and bias of a few design judges. I hope we can avoid this in the future!

[Eshu]

Some random thoughts on the subject:

-That there UWA car looked similar to the last two brought from down under.
-It's the team's job to present, not the judges' to extract.
-Design judge = volunteer. Don't rag on them unless you don't want an event.

It's not a perfect system, but that is what I love about it...

[flavorPacket]

Originally posted by Jeff Curtis:
There were no more knowledgeable students on the topics of race car dynamics and what it takes to design, construct, test and tune a fast race car.

No bias on your part at all, Jeff...

And you're extremely misinformed with your comments about simulation. If you had spoken with me or my teammates you'd know this.

[ad]

Originally posted by Jeff Curtis:
I want to say that it was a complete travesty that University of Western Australia did not make design semi-finals. I got the opportunity to talk to several members after they were eliminated from design. There were no more knowledgeable students on the topics of race car dynamics and what it takes to design, construct, test and tune a fast race car.

I am not sure what design cue the W. Australian team was in during preliminary design, but there must have been a serious oversight by those judges.

For example, there were teams in design semi-finals that didn't even know how to properly adjust their dampers, there were teams that didn't even have any viable test data for their cars, and as far as I know there was not a single team that had an effective use of simulation to try to optimize the design of their car. All of the above were done by Western Australia.

I am not trying to say that Wisconsin-Madison did not deserve their position atop the FSAE ladder; they were one of the few that were in the league of Western Australia in both design and on track performance.

I know that I will potentially stir a great bit of controversy with this post, but I only am doing it as recognition of what the Western Australian team accomplished with their car. I feel that if more of the judges had the opportunity to speak with the team members, they would have come to the same conclusion as me.

I will end by saying that in 2001, Cornell missed the design finals in what was apparently an oversight by the design judges. To this day, that car's design continues to be one of the competition's most commonly copied designs. This year was another example the specific ignorance and bias of a few design judges. I hope we can avoid this in the future!

See now thats the beauty of the Australasian event.

-Small number of competing teams
-Plenty of time in the preliminary design event to state your case
-And because there is only one said group because of the number of entries, only the top teams are chosen for the semi / final!

Plus, after that Erin organises a mad afterparty! In the centre of Melbourne!

Alas the downside is, there are less cars to drool over...

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by pablo180:
Congratulations to Wisconsin.
Just out of curiosity, were any of the teams in the top ten using a single cyl? If I remember correctly, all of those teams were running a 4 cyl right?

Anyone have the weights of the vehicles?

How about 13" tires..didnt see too many of the gokart tires on the top 10 cars.

[flavorPacket]

i believe the only 10" teams were ETS, Michigan, and western washington

[Mike Claffey]

Hi Eshu,

If you had taken the time to come past our pit I would have been more than happy to show you why our car was different to last years. Side by side they look quite different, and in the sub systems, well I can't think of one that was carried over. That yellow paint scheme though tends to look familiar =]

Back on track though, I would like to congratulate UW-M despite all the rivalry I must say they had a very impressive car. I found it very interesting to see your car up close in design and check out your boards. Lots of great information there. We thought we had you with your out of order run in enduro but it was not to be. Michigan turbo and extractors were really cool to look at also! North Carolina's car had to be one of the greatest looking cars I've seen in a while too, nice lines. The entrance of rotary dampers is pritty exciting and seeing how many teams have begun making their own dampers also shows how unique FSAE is - and how people are really looking at the factors that make these cars fast and developing them. TUGraz had a very cool casting hanging off the back of the car, definatly something I think alot of poeple will be copying...

Cincinatti, Akron and Oakland were great to host us out and about and in a place to stay so thanks alot to you guys - we had heaps of fun.

As always I can't wait to see the designs everyone comes up with next time!

[PatClarke]

Mike,
Please check your PMs
Pat

[Eshu]

Originally posted by Mike Claffey:
If you had taken the time to come past our pit I would have been more than happy to show you why our car was different to last years. Side by side they look quite different, and in the sub systems, well I can't think of one that was carried over. That yellow paint scheme though tends to look familiar =]



I'm sure you're right. Out of curiousity, what would you say were your unique design choices this year compared to the ones for the highly successful FSL-005?

[BStoney]

Mike:

Send me an email at the address below, I have a couple of questions for ya.

It was great to hang around you guys all week, hopefully be able to make it down to Oz sooner rather than later.

Cheers!

[Papa Lemming]

Hey, does anyone know anything about Universidad Simon Bolivar?

[rjwoods77]

I know that they have some beautiful girls on their team. Oh man!!! I also felt bad for a girl on their team because I was eating in the food tent and she was crying right after design. Spanish is rusty but she felt bad but her team was cheering her on for her effort. Bunch of nice people from my eye. Very team oriented.

http://www.formulasae.grupos.usb.ve/

[Dan G]

I resized all of my photos and zipped them up into a single 90MB file.

http://evilengineering.com/FSAE07East_shrunk.zip

I still have double res of these shots if anyone wants specific ones.

[ad]

Thanks for posting the pics guys.

Any one got anymore they want to share??

[James Waltman]

Thanks for posting that Dan.
That made it a lot easier to go through.

Why did the E85 teams have M85 fuel stickers?
http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST0...g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/IMG_3500.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)

And who is this guy:
http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST0...g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/IMG_3464.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)

[Dan G]

Why did the E85 teams have M85 fuel stickers?
http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST0...g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/IMG_3500.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)
I'm thinking they just didn't have any E85 stickers so they used those instead.


And who is this guy:
http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST0...g2_imageViewsIndex=1 (http://www.evilengineering.com/gallery/v/SAE/FSAE/EAST07/IMG_3464.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)
Thats Steve Daum on the left in the blue shirt, the guy in the white on the right is Kevin Halsted of Ford MPG, and I dunno who the dude with the 'stache is. Those two Auburn guys had run from the other side of the pano shot.

Edited for spelling

[RiNaZ]

that's Steve Daum http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Michael Royce]

The gentleman with the mustache is Denny Morris, also one of the Ford Michigan PG staff. Kevin and Denny were two of the Ford people that worked hard to make things go well for us this year.

[James Waltman]

Thanks all.
I knew that was Steve Daum.
I just didn't know the other guys.

[RIT Alumni]

Much deserved top ten finish for the crew from RIT! They have now finished with points in every event at the last 13 competitions, including 6 years in a row in Detroit. Great job guys and best of luck in Germany!

[Pete Marsh]

[/QUOTE]


I'm sure you're right. Out of curiousity, what would you say were your unique design choices this year compared to the ones for the highly successful FSL-005?[/QUOTE]

Eshu,
I didn't catch which team you were from? Were you at the comp?

Do you really want to know, or are you suggesting there arn't any?
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[repeatoffender]

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:
Eshu,
I didn't catch which team you were from? Were you at the comp?

Do you really want to know, or are you suggesting there arn't any?
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

That must be the UWA sincerity and friendly attitude ive been hearing about!


Fair go, im sure everyone gets the same treatment. Evolutionary vehicles look similar, and are commonly mistaken for the 'same' as last year ignorance.

[flavorPacket]

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

all of those teams have had fast cars for several years (UTA has since FSAE began)...

[BStoney]

Originally posted by flavorPacket:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pete Marsh:
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

all of those teams have had fast cars for several years (UTA has since FSAE began)... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could make a pretty large list of things that are different between our 07 car and the 06 car...but of course I am sure the speed was a gift of the vehicle dynamics gods. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[flavorPacket]

bstoney, I don't follow. The point I was trying to make is that the fastest cars often tend to be evolutionary

[BStoney]

FlavorPacket:

No, no, I definitely understand your point, was just trying to add to UWA's case that, even when cars are evolutionary, they tend to have some pretty different things from year to year, even if they are small to the naked eye.

No harm meant.

[flavorPacket]

It's all good, we'll see you in England. Hopefully we'll have a better run there

[JamesWolak]

Did Road & Track do the Triathlon this year? If so who won?

[csquinn]

Originally posted by JamesWolak:
Did Road & Track do the Triathlon this year? If so who won?

Road and Track didn't run their event this year. They may be running it at West but I don't know.

As for some teams cars looking the same, I feel that the fast teams find designs that get them somewhat close to where they want to be and then spend several years optimizing their designs. Its nearly impossible to completely redesign a car a every year and expect to be fast and reliable out of the box. This doesn't mean that the cars are not changed, it just mean that most of the changes are hard to notice since they don't incorporate a major frame redesign, etc. I know that we changed alot this year, both from a systems engineering approach and in things that were completely new to us. But some people told us that the car looked similar to past cars. I think other top level teams get the same criticism as well, as shown here with UWA. They brought a great car that had obviously been given its paces on the track since it was dialed in and fast. And as long as it was faster than last year, the team accomplished their goal. The goal isn't to design a completely new car every year. The goal is to figure out how you can go faster and score more points and then execute that plan. I think everyone that finished in the top 10 executed their plans pretty well.

[Maverik]

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:



I'm sure you're right. Out of curiousity, what would you say were your unique design choices this year compared to the ones for the highly successful FSL-005?[/QUOTE]

Eshu,
I didn't catch which team you were from? Were you at the comp?

Do you really want to know, or are you suggesting there arn't any?
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/QUOTE]

True enough our car was faster this year than last, but we also did set FTD in last year's endurance so I wouldn't say we were massively faster. ;-)

[Eshu]

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:

Eshu,
I didn't catch which team you were from? Were you at the comp?

Do you really want to know, or are you suggesting there arn't any?
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Pete,

My days on a team are long past. No, I did not make it to comp this year. I am ignorant and I tend to fill the role my name implies.

Sincerely now, I am certain there was a huge effort on your part to make a better, faster car. I am also sincerely curious on what all the changes were from last year(Pictures only show so much).

I'm very interested in the evolution of top teams' cars from year to year. I guess I'm trying to answer two unanswerable questions:
<LI>Is it harder to design a great concept/package from scratch or develop a great concept/package and make it better?
<LI>Is good development the same as good design and to what extent should development be rewarded in the design tent?

Well, that's really three questions.

Anyway, you've got good reason to be mad; my previous response was a prod. But you've smited me with your righteousness and put me in my place. I now know better than to question the ruling class of FSAE-dom and will just cower behind my anonymity.

Eshu

[Pete Marsh]

Eshu,
Sorry for the mad post, its not my usual style. And as you wern't there I can better understand your question. IMO your question was answered on the track. The '06 car is about 2sec/km faster than the '05 car on a track and without sacrificing fuel economy. The only carry overs were some purchased stuff,(drive shafts, honda f4i, calipers, uni joints etc) and our USB's + clevis (inboard sus. brackets), wheel nuts, and track width, weight dist target, tyres. Also some forwards compatabilities, wheels, steering quick release, brake hats, diff. Prob missed a few but you get the idea. '06 is our first car designed for the new goodyear tyres and also had a major change of heart in the powertrain section with good results. Ergo control and comfort is much improved to. Weight down 22lb and wheelbase down 2" power up 35% in US.

Your evolution vs revolution question is interesting.
IMO its hardest to win the thing! You have to decide what is required to get from where you are now to where you want to be with your available reasources. Thats engineering. If you think your last concept is good for the job except for x,y, and z then great. If you can't see how to get to bar with what you've got, then change it. Of course if you underestimate what other teams will bring your going to get beaten, maybe by a fantastic idea you didn't consider.

The way I interperet the rules, the design event is ment to assess the car's design suitability for the event/catagory(does it meet goal), the detail design decisions that lead to the solution(show how it meets goal), and the students knowlage of the engineering involved in them(show you know why it meets goal). IMO they also assess the presentation of the designs/your work and the spead of knowlage through the team members. I don't see a need to present a different concept solution to the problem at each event, only a different car. The relentless competition ensures there will be plenty of detail changes from any team that wants to keep up.

Our failure to make design semi was due to "too much carry over and not enough knowlage on the traveling team". Our track performance answers that IMO but design is before the track events so the judges were not to know at the time, so, WE failed to show them what we had when it counted.(being last to weigh didn't help).
I still beleive the car is better than 14th in design and ABSOLUTLY would not have supported major changes for the sake of change if I had the time over again. Although, if it means a free pass into design semi's, you'd have to consider it......

I'd be interested to here from Wisconsin on this as they presented an 'evolutionary' car and won design ahead of a car that could be clasified as 'revolutionary'. Was there any pressure from the judges that your car should be 'different'? I didn't have a chance to have a close look at your car but it looks from the outside to be a good match for what a lot of the judges expect/interperet as 'an autocross racer', is really fast and does everything well. As such, it must be a good thing, built and run by people that have a clue, and I'm sure your presentation is of high standard as well. So IMO it seams your design win shows the event runs pretty close to the way I have interpereted the rules above and is as it should be. Do you agree?

Also, Texas A+M just won West with a new layout. What was it? 550cc twin Aprilia? How fast are they? or more importantly, how fast will they be next year?.....

Pete.

[ad]

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:
power up 35% in US.
Pete.

Pete,

Can you elaborate on this some more please?

I spoke to a few of your members last year at AUS and they said you made 100 hp peak. Where was this % increase for US you mentioned.

Also have you any photos of the intake? (is it still variable?)

[Pete Marsh]

Hi Andrew,
The 35% is US comp chasis dyno '06 vs '07. (they provide one and a sheet from it is required for the design event. They don't believe your numbers generally) The gain was much more at the US comp because of problems we had with the fuel and weather differences there in '06 (with the '05 car) that we solved this year (with the car you saw at Aus).

Yes it made good power at home on our dyno and in comparison to other cars on the same dyno at US East, the powertrain guys were pretty happy. 5% down on the best atmo engine there (Virginia Tech 74.5 HP I heard) with VERY flat delevery and the best fuel economy of anyone near us.(I think?? we got 17 points).

The intake is fixed and I don't have any pics of it sorry.
Pete.