MSU...100+ NA HP and 8 Speeds....Confirm?

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I worked with a very very knowledgable individual last summer that was on the Michigan Tech FSAE team sometime in the mid/late 90's and he swore when he was on the team they ran a Honda F2 that was making like 120hp N/A and they put a race bike 8 speed transmission in the engine. He said they went through 10 engines during dyno testing that year but figured some crazy stuff out and made killer power. Were restrictors bigger back then?

Can anyone confirm this? Sounds crazy but this guy works in performance developement for a well known marine company, builds model airplane engines from scratch (casting, machining everything) etc...

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I worked with a very very knowledgable individual last summer that was on the Michigan Tech FSAE team sometime in the mid/late 90's and he swore when he was on the team they ran a Honda F2 that was making like 120hp N/A and they put a race bike 8 speed transmission in the engine. He said they went through 10 engines during dyno testing that year but figured some crazy stuff out and made killer power. Were restrictors bigger back then?

Can anyone confirm this? Sounds crazy but this guy works in performance developement for a well known marine company, builds model airplane engines from scratch (casting, machining everything) etc...

[Pete M]

I know the restrictor was once 25 mm, but i'm pretty sure that was way back in the 80s. Call me interested too.

[Mike Hart]

I could be being silly, but I was under the impression it's near impossible to get over 100bhp due to physics! The engine just can't get any more air through the restrictor to generate much more.

[Ehsan]

Call me skeptical.

If they found some magical formula to make 100+ hp, then how has it been lost in the subsequent years, even with the explosion of number of FSAE teams?

Additionally, why in the world would you want an 8-speed gearbox? Unless your power curve looked like a vertical line, you would lose too much time shifting constantly.

Know how stories tend to get better with age? I think this one is suffering from some age-related offset.
You should ask him if the car had 6 wheels and 2 steering wheels..... haha

[Diablo_niterider]

Tu Graz claimed to have 102 hp na on their car this year .

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

This guy knows his $hit.

If I remember this is what he said about the 8 gears. He said there powerband very narrow, around like 8-10 grand, they had the 8 speeds so that they could always be in that range. Kind of the opposite thinking of most teams that want to us 2-3 gears and have a wide power range.

WIth all the dyno time and hopup parts I dont think 100hp is out of the question. The fact that they went through 10 dyno engines in one season either means they were runnin the hell out of them or they sucked at tuning, I am going with the first one.

The FSAE program at MSU tapered off fast according to him after that year so this information could have been lost over time.

I am still skeptical myself but would like to keep hearing the opinions.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

BTW, this is not MSU, its MI Tech, sorry.

[flavorPacket]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by diablo_niterider:
Tu Graz claimed to have 102 hp na on their car this year . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

they weren't kidding either. they put down 92 at the wheels on the dyno at FS germany

[The Bunker]

You have to figure that every dyno is different too. It is a great tool to tune, but unless you have two cars on the same dyno on the same day, results can vary. I think 120hp is a little on the far fetched side, but close to 100hp isnt unrealistic as seen by several teams.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I sent him an email to get the facts from the horse's mouth, I will post the reply here when I get it.

[Christopher Catto]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flavorPacket:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by diablo_niterider:
Tu Graz claimed to have 102 hp na on their car this year . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

they weren't kidding either. they put down 92 at the wheels on the dyno at FS germany </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice power, but looking at FS 2007 Graz had a best of 3,788, while 4th place University of Hertfordshire had a best of 3,871.

The difference in power of the engines at the crank is for sure at least 20-22bhp (20-25% of the engine total power!) but I would say the difference in time is not as much as I would expect. if you have this much horsepower isnt the acceleration run going to show it in the best light?

I guess, tyres is a limitation for them but with TC and paddle shifting I expected Graz to have a bigger advantage.

8 gears to me would make most sense without a conventional pedal clutch. Must be frustrating to have to change so often. Nice in a 2-stroke bike but FS car where corners are so important, the gear-changing before and after corners must be an unwanted extra.

nice tho that you can blow 10 engines without the manager firing you and the school chancellor asking why 15 grand have been wiped out of their account in 3 months. does any place operate like this? Lockheed Martin maybe. Its nice to learn like this but the uni has gotta be well funded.