Internal fuel pumps???

[Sat]

Hey Im from Western Michigan University's Formula team and ive been researching into getting an internal fuel pump but i can't find anything that appears to be what im looking for. So I was kind of wondering what kind of fuel pumps does everyone else use, and how did you go about acquiring these fuel pumps?

[Erich Ohlde]

We use an F4i stock fuel pump. its about 30$ off ebay. I imagine that an R6 or a Jixxer would be about the same if not the exact same FP.

[Wright D]

Stock fuel pumps are regulated to 43 psi, so if you want to go any higher then that you will need to get a different pump and regulator. Also, some bikes have an in tank pump, but for carburetors. Theses pumps only produce 2-5 psi, do not get one of these on accident. Ask the seller if the bike was EFI be for you buy.

Any parts store (Checker, Napa, Auto Zone) should have the same type, if not the exact same pump that are in most street bikes.

One should note that many of these pumps will not last long when faced with adverse operating conditions. Heat, vibration, dirt, and/or alcohol tend to trash them pretty quick.

There are some things to consider when going for and in the tank pump.

Servicing the pump means opening the fuel cell, which can be difficult if it is tucked in-between the driver and engine. So think about how you might want get at the fuel pump when it is not working right, and you are at competition. (Read; make it easy to get in and out)

In tank systems usually do not have a regulator located on the fuel rail, and so do not have a fuel return line, this is both positive of this system, and a draw back. The single line means that fuel will spend more time in the fuel rail before it is injected into the motor. The extra time in the rail allows the fuel to heat up a bit more before it is injected. This can have a drastic affect on the cold start and hot start characteristics of you car.

A positive of the single line is that there are far fewer fitting saving in cost and weight. And, the heated fuel might get you some better fuel economy; cause that 50 points won't hurt.

[Erich Ohlde]

I'm gonna have to disagree with just about everything you just said Wright D.

First off, the stock CBR F4i will push 60 PSIg to the rail. As will most of the stock motorcycle units.

Very few auto parts stores carry motorcycle parts

I will agree that in-tank fuel pumps don't like being run without gasoline (to cool and lubricate) but every intank fuel pump that i've seen has a sock on the intake to filter debris. They don't mind getting hot (our fuel during endurance was hot enough to melt the adhesive of velcro on the tank.

Servicing the fuel pump is a little more time consuming, but still not difficult.

Every stock motorcycle (that i've seen) with in-tank fuel pumps have a regulator ON the fuel rail so there are two fuel lines.

[Wright D]

http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/assets/schematics/Suzuki/SU0128_018.gif

Note the single line to fuel rail, number 16. in above picture. Straight from an impartial source (bike bandit). This one in a GSXR 600 pump, But zx10, zx 12 and many, many more are basically the exact same.

And; on this web page (http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem.asp) I did not see a pressure regulator listed as one of the components of the fuel system, also for a stock gsxr 600.

Trust me, 43 psi, check your manual (AKA, the big book the dealers use to the fix your motor when it brakes). Or put a pressure gauge on the fuel line some place. If it is not 43 then it is right in that neighborhood.

The debris filter stops large chunks of stuff from going into the pump. It is the fine grit that ultimately does them in. The kind of grit generated by grinding steel near an open tank, or dust from an Arizona sand storm, this fine stuff won't be stopped. The filters are not very fine and dirt will go threw them. Either way, it can't hurt to be extra careful about getting crap inside your fuel cell. I would hate to have let dirt get into my fuel cell, and loses a pump in the middle of the endurance race.

Keeping the pump cool is not a requirement, it will just make it last longer. At some point the pump will fail, I would like to have that point be so far off I do not have to worry about it. Heat, vibration, dirt, and alcohol will not stop a pump the instant they meet. They will shorten its operating life though, which is why I like to keep the fuel pumps very accessible. I hate to lose races because I never finished.

Mitsubishi Motors manufactures all of Kawasaki's in tank fuel pumps and regulators, so you might beadle to find the pump regulator assembly (number 2 above) used in another application, think car. The pump regulator assembly, less the piece that bolts it into the bike fuel tank, would probably be sold at an auto parts store, but you will have to know what car has the correct assembly in its tank. For that matter there would be lots and lots of car type pumps that are also might be applicable.

[Erich Ohlde]

wow, kawasaki's are weird. well on our f4i we have a pressure guage on the fuel rail and we run 55-60psi. Yes the debris sock on the pump keeps out the big stuff, but if you are careless enough to get metal shavings (etc) in your tank then you should have it fail in end.
Most of the Honda stuff is bosch built (crazy germans)

Well i think we both win =]

[Wright D]

Just so that people don't think I am an "in tank" hater. The in tank fuel pump is how we prefer to supply fuel where I work (http://www.peterdmotorsports.com/).

[Belo]

You could also use SDI snowmobile in tank pumps...

A BRP 600SDI pump would do a great job, it's really compact

try P/N 861302700 at any BRP dealer or you could check to website for parts http://www.ski-doo.com/en-CA/Parts.htm

[Dave M]

We use a pump from a 89 mustang. They work great, and are available at ANY car part store. The pump flow may be a little much but it is the same size as most other pumps.

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/412600868/m/72710490521

[Belo]

Same thing as BRP...

might buy it from walbro its less expensive

[Conor]

Sat-

You are a complete idiot. I feel sorry for your teammates for having to deal with such a moron. Please do the world a favor and quit engineering.