Formula SAE Australasia 2011 Competition: - Updates, Pictures, Stories, and More

[MalcolmG]

I thought I'd start a new thread for competition-specific stuff, since the FSAE-A 2011 thread dates back to May and isn't competition-specific.

It's tough not being there for the first time in 6 years, I'm eager to see everyone's cars and hear how they're all getting on.

Here's some facebook links with photos
Rex Chan's pics from Thursday (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150438375613036.365685.559588035&type=3#!/media/set/?set=a.10150438375613036.365685.559588035&type=1)
MUR's 2011 comp album (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.294254257279739.66791.190213917683774&type=1)

Monash have also posted a couple of pics on their wall
http://www.facebook.com/monashmotorsport

Apparently ADFA are through tech inspection but are the only ones so far.

Anyone going to be tweeting from comp? Kirby?

[MalcolmG]

More links with updates and photos

http://motorsport.mech.uwa.edu.../australia-2011.html (http://motorsport.mech.uwa.edu.au/news/the-competition/australia-2011.html)

http://fsae.co.nz/index.php/ne...ainmenu-44/2011-news (http://fsae.co.nz/index.php/news-mainmenu-44/2011-news) (come on guys, too much text, not enough pictures!)

https://scribe.twitter.com/#!/...ing/fsae-australasia (https://scribe.twitter.com/#!/PolarBearRacing/fsae-australasia)

http://curtinmotorsportteam.blogspot.com (also needs pics)

[Boffin]

Malcom

That is correct. ADFA through tech.
Monash, Melbourne, ECU and two others failed on a few things.

Absent on thursday, atleast
WA
Swinburne
UTS
Curtin?

Wings:
Monash
ECU

And nearly all of the padock is wearing goodyears

[CandiceW]

Not much point bringing the car in on Thursday as all we had to do was register and attend team and driver briefing.

We are through tech inspection, and we did well in the static events so fingers crossed we will get some good points.

Overall very impressed with the field this year looks like it should be an awesome and very competitive comp.

[StevenWebb]

I'm waiting for the (monash) troops to arrive to sort out some issues with the car and get it rescruited tomorrow before we can pass brake/noise, not the best position for us to be in unfortunately so tomorrow will be big for us.


Originally posted by Boffin:
And nearly all of the padock is wearing goodyears
interesting goodyear related story which i discovered today...
we had an extra set of goodyears
Adelaide ordered a set of goodyears
Melbourne at the last minute bought a set of tires, which as it turns out was probably Adelaides set.
Melbourne wanted a set a bit earlier to test on so we lent them our spare set, which they replaced with the new set when they arrived a few days ago.
Adelaide were then calling everyone asking for some tires at comp, so we lent them our set, which we got from Melbourne, which was the set that Adelaide originally ordered for the competition!

[Rex Chan]

Goodyears and Ohlins and ADLs (Melbourne really would like a dash logger, so we're noticing all the cars with them). Very popular things to have on your car this weekend.

[Kirby]

finished doing tech inspection. ran to time and we had 15 cars though at the end of today. a few minor issues for the remaining teams, but should be through early tomorrow. I think there was a record clearance of all three tech events today and there were six!! cars lining up for practice track before the end of the day.

The pressure is of the volunteers because we had such a great response this year!!!

I'll be starting my twitter feed tomorrow, stay tuned for updates!

(p.s. shame on you malcolm for not rocking up)

[Rex Chan]

photos up on fb now. FSAE-A 2011: Friday (Scrut, Tilt, Noise) [December 16, 2011] (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150440442878036.365987.559588035&type=3)

[Rex Chan]

2011 FSAE Comp - Thu (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150624107114466.478416.735924465&type=1)

Photos from the 2012 Melbourne Uni team.

[Rex Chan]

And some from today (Friday):

2011 FSAE Comp - Fri (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150624115279466.478419.735924465&type=1)

[mech5496]

What happened to UWAM's exhausts?! I noticed some new ones (EDIT: "We ran into serious problems with the carbon-fibre mufflers, with one half of the muffler splitting open on the left side. A quick change to the dyno mufflers allowed us to get back on track. The remainder of the day was spent giving some seat time to the drivers at comp." via UWAM website) Were those front wind deflectors allowed through tech? (EDIT No2.:As I understood from various sources, at first they were allowed, then asked to trim them and at the very end banned? Anyone confirm?)I noticed that RMIT also runs similar philosophy sidepod mounted rear wheel "covers". Also, do you have any weights? And more pics of the Auckland car please...http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[NickFavazzo]

one of the carbon mufflers had de laminated due to a poor layup (new team, mistakes happen)
we wont be running the FADS. UWAM is a little heavy at the moment...

[Kirby]

http://twitter.com/#!/FSAEA11/

get around it.

[Macros]

http://iforce.co.nz/i/c0x15spd.y0g.jpg

[MalcolmG]

Design finals:
Auckland
Monash
RMIT
Edith Cowan

[Scott Wordley]

Hi everyone,

I have just set up a live stream of the Autocross from the top of the hill.

The link is:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/fsae-a

This is my first time doing this so please excuse any glitches.

I think they will be starting in a couple of minutes so tune in, now

There is a little rain on the radar so should be interesting. We also have about 20 teams currently in line and ready to run so should be a very entertaining afternoon.

IF this stream goes well we will try and broadcast both heats of Enduro tomorrow as well.

Enjoy!

Scott

PS: If the stream is working can you please repost the link to fstotal, facebook etc and get the word out.

Cars starting up now!

[plohl]

Thanks Scott! and everyone else for their updates!

Good luck everyone!

[HA11S]

Thank all of you for updating stuff!!

I couldn't afford to fly but donated team flag instead of my trip http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Go OFRAC!

[Scott Wordley]

Hi guys,

We are expecting a lot of rain near the start of enduro which means we can't run the laptop and webcam out on track this morning sorry.

We will try to get someone posting updates and times.

Cheers

Scott

[TMichaels]

Just use a plastic foil http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,

Tobias

[Fred G]

and the winner is....

???
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Not many updates on the final day http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Waste of a day hanging out in front of my computer. Next time, I'll make the effort to go to the comp http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[MalcolmG]

All I've been able to make out so far is that Monash won (congratulations again guys!) and ECU were third. I'm guessing UWA and Auckland may have made up 2 of the remaining spots in the top 5, and perhaps RMIT if they finished the second enduro? Looks like they DNF'ed in the first

[brettd]

1. Monash
2. UWA
3. ECU

Congrats to Monash, another polished performance again it seems. Great stuff by the west aussie teams as well!

edit: and congrats to UWAM for winning fuel economy with a 4!

[TMichaels]

Anyone knows details about the electric cars in the competition?

Regards,

Tobias

[MalcolmG]

Results are up
http://www.saea.com.au/2011/12...e-a-event-coming-up/ (http://www.saea.com.au/2011/12/05/formula-sae-a-event-coming-up/)

[FStotal.com]

Great job Monash.

Does anybody have some times from the dynamic events?

[mech5496]

Great job Monash! Now that it's over, need stories and PICS! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MalcolmG]

I'm quite intrigued by the results for fuel, no team scored anywhere near the max of 125 points? I know that UWA used around 2.6L for one enduro and Auckland used 3.05L for one, their scores were 68.xx and 55.xx respectively, which using the formula in the Aus addendum doesn't really seem possible. The fact there's two heats, with the best combined enduro/fuel score being used, means it's possible if another team did 2 enduros, using close to 1L in one while scoring very low in enduro, then having a second enduro where they were a lot faster and used a lot more fuel.

Can anyone shed any light on the situation? I assume it has nothing to do with the EV's since neither finished endurance

Also this must be the first year in a very long time that I can remember more than 50% of the teams scoring in all events at the Aus comp, well done to you all!

[MalcolmG]

Something is definitely on the piss here, and it's not made easier by SAE-A's tendency to only post separate fuel and endurance scores for the top 3 from each event.

UWA endurance score = 298
UWA fuel score = 68.49
UWA endurance + fuel score = 356.8 ???
(sorry WA, not picking on you, you guys are just the only ones who we have scores for enduro and fuel). Even if UWA only scored 58.8 for fuel, they still won economy, but it points to something being a bit funky with the scoring there

[luxsosis]

We believe the officials used the Indian team's fuel burn as the minimum amount used in the fuel formula, but they were not fast enough to qualify to win the actual event. They used about 1L, with an air cooled single.

[MalcolmG]

Unless I'm doing something wrong, it seems like for 2.6L to give you 68 points you need Vmin to be 0L. The formula I'm using is
125 * (Vmax - Vyour)/(Vmax - Vmin)

If Vmin was 1L UWA should've scored 82 points for fuel

[Big Bird]

Hi all,

I've noted some minor anomalies in the pointscoring myself, and will be checking this out over the coming days. I'll keep you all posted as to any updates.

Cheers

[MalcolmG]

Cheers Geoff. It looks like the Vmin for fuel economy has been scored incorrectly, as rule D8.23b states:
"Vmin will be the smallest volume of fuel used by any team in either heat; provided that team's corrected time from that heat does not exceed Tmax"

So the Indian team's fuel shouldn't have counted, UWA's 2.6L should've been Vmin and they should've received 125 points for fuel for that heat, possibly giving them a higher combined enduro + fuel score

[Big Bird]

We actually had around 18 (more?) teams finishing endurance too. It seems the 50 completion points for endurance weren't counted either...

I'll update you all as soon as I can.

Endurance was epic. It took ages. Even the cars that failed usually had completed most of the laps. And there were wet weather tyre changes in there too. Cars on track solidly from 9:15am until I think it was 5:30 or thereabouts, with a 15 minute reprieve at lunch. Phew...

[MalcolmG]

Wow, that's an amazing completion percentage for endurance! I guess many teams will be waiting with baited breath for some confirmed scores now (looks like the top 3 are all safe though, at least no trophies will have to be returned...)

[Z]

Let's look at some of UWA's results;

Acceleration = 50/50, placed 1st,
Skid-Pad = 55/75, 2nd,
AutoCross = 100/100, 1st,
Endurance = 298/300, (very close) 2nd,
Fuel Economy = 68.4/125?, 1st,
Combined EnduroFE = 356.8/425?, 1st,

So, it seems this is a fast and efficient car...

Design = 99/200, 16th!!!

Judges, please explain!

Z

[uts_terry]

can anyone confirm what cutoff was applied in endurance event? The 2011FSAERules state cutoff is 1.45. Details of how endurance score is calculated appear to be missing in FSAE_A addendum and FSAE_A_2011-Event-Handbook. Some of my students have heard that 1.33 may have been used.

[Mike Claffey]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Z:
Let's look at some of UWA's results;

I heard that they didn't build a new chassis this year instead carried it over from last years incomplete car.

[Kevin Hayward]

Z,

UWA brought a second year car with a young team. Given that they cop a 50 point penalty for design for a second year car they actually finished very high in design for an inexperienced team. Without the penalty they probably would have made design finals.

The endurance and autocross scores are also helped significantly by the most experienced driver in FSAE. Pete has won more autocrosses than probably any other driver. Even with Pete the UWA car had slower lap times than Monash. It was a lack of hit cones that meant the difference in both of the events.

Kev

[Kevin Hayward]

Apoloigies for the 1.33 factor for endurance.

Geoff and I probably dropped that on the commentary by mistake. The scores do look like the 1.45 was used from rough approximations of the lap times I was seeing.

We did try to put the disclaimer in that most of what we said was not only uninteresting but also inaccurate.

Kev

[Ashmeet]

Hi All,

We are definitely not happy with the way the Endurance and Fuel Economy have been scored. As promised on the event, we should have been awarded 50 points for Endurance, regardless of time taken.

Regarding Fuel Economy, our 125 points should NOT be considered for calculating points for other teams, because our time lies outside of Tmax. Awarding us 125 points is very unfair to other teams.

PS: Thanks to all the teams for their immense support!

[Chris B]

hey guys,

im not sure what's gone on with the timing but we at UQ recieved NO POINTS at all from enduro despite finishing BOTH enduro runs. Also in our first run our own timing of every team and ourselves seemed to indicate that we were inside the 1.45 time by about 2 min 30 sec. admittedly our times didnt count cones hit, but still our guys didnt hit 75 cones in their run. I'd accept if the officials claim we're wrong on this however (id disagree still), but we should still have got the points for finishing. does anyone know who to contact at FSAE to chase this up? any help would be much appreciated.

[Chris B]

Ashmeet, you're team is an inspiration with what you were able to achieve. It wasn't just what you accomplished but also the way you went about it. Congratulations once again from everyone in the UQ team, hope you're able to make it out again in the future.

[CandiceW]

Hey Chris last year when we didnt get a score in endurance we emailed FSAE-A through there standard email contact and got a response within a couple of days unfortunately for us it wasn't the best news in the world but it happens.

Looking at the results overall low scores compared with last year i.e. our score this year we put us around 11th place not 8th place, however the change in points distribution is making things very interesting.

Personally hope the placings dont change as we are very happy with 8th place but then again if its incorrect its incorrect and it would be unfair to those teams for them to miss out on those points and hence placing.

[uts_terry]

detailed results like this

http://students.sae.org/compet...rmulaseries/results/ (http://students.sae.org/competitions/formulaseries/results/)

from Michigan would be great to have and help reduce a lot of this uncertainty about results and placings

I realise it may be a bit of work to put it together but I think all the teams deserve to have this sort of detail made available for them

[Big Bird]

Hi all,

As per my earlier post I'll be chasing these issues up within the SAE as soon as I can get onto the relevant data and people. Please be patient, the event staff have put in a huge effort over the past few weeks / months, and they are just as exhausted as you are. They are aware of the concerns raised here, and I believe announcements will be made soon. Please hang loose!

If it turns out that anyone has mistakenly believed any part of the weekend's commentary to be factually correct, informed, or even mildly interesting, then Kev and I can only offer our sincerest apologies. Factual content was exhausted by 9:30am Saturday, and any control of mind over voicebox had been lost by around 10:00

[NickFavazzo]

It would be great if we could see the detailed results rather than the breakdowns currently available, once the issues have been sorted of course.

There are a few things odd with the results but regardless of the finishing places I think it was a fantastic competition for all involved, such a great finishing rate and strong competition. I truly look forward to next year.

Just to clear things up we had a second year chassis, we decided early on due to few team members not to build a new carbon tub, the rear frame was not considered "chassis" (by rules) so modifying the frame would have not helped the case, so the team's resources were focused on other areas. We were unsure how the 50 point penalty would be applied, be it in whole or partial. I also don't know if the rules state that second year vehicles are specifically disallowed in design finals or if it was a result of a points deduction that made us not make the cut.

A Big thank you to all the alumni involved and to Geoff and Kev for the on air entertainment!

[Boffin]

Originally posted by Big Bird:
If it turns out that anyone has mistakenly believed any part of the weekend's commentary to be factually correct, informed, or even mildly interesting, then Kev and I can only offer our sincerest apologies. Factual content was exhausted by 9:30am Saturday, and any control of mind over voicebox had been lost by around 10:00 And with me being the pit reporter feeding information to you as well, there was little to no hope.

Couple of interesting things from the natsoft times:
Session 2
WA has pulled 1 extra lap
ECU and Adelaide has pulled 1 less (ECU before the driver change, Adelaide after)
RMIT petrol has pulled the correct number of laps, but the driver change is one lap out (1 extra lap on the first driver)

Overall

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m262/helloyou00/2011endurotimes.jpg

Two interesting thing I found in the rules was:
D.8.17.5 - 20 seconds for a missed slalom
D.8.17.6 – 1 minute for a missed flag

Now I know UTS had a “run out of order” penalty of 2 min (I was under the car when it should have been running) and at least two missed blue flags, thus 4 extra minutes on their time. This mean they are over Tmax before cone penalties
Can anyone else fill in the penalties for other teams?

Also, am I the only one who thought the overtaking lane coming out of the hairpin was the wrong position to have it? As a driver your focus would have been away from the marshaling point, on the inside of the turn (I didn't drive so it is just a theory)

[Chris B]

thanks for the break down. i agree about the slow lane at the hairpin, but more than that i thought all of them were on the wrong side of the track, the "fast lane" was on the slower line. it would have been much easier to follow had they have been the other way around as the slower line would have been the slow lane. just my two cents.

[uts_terry]

I watched a lot of the endurance at that hairpin corner and saw lots of drivers miss blue flags. I asked our drivers if they deliberately ignored the blue flags there. They assured me that they did not. By the time they saw them it was too late.

I think the officials should be lenient on all teams with regards to applying penalties for missed blue flags at this corner.

Overall I think the Event was very well run. I was especially pleased with the four lane tech scrutineering. This enabled teams to have time to fix things and not have to wait too long in line to get checked again. Great not to have that long line of cars waiting to go through scrut.

And Kevin and Geoff - great work on the commentary. I hope you do it again next year.

[STAATSWANN]

Unfortunately I didn;t make it to comp this year but word on the stret is Kevin and Geoff have named the section of track where Curtin went into the puddle last year "Curtin Pool" ... good to see that event has been immortalised haha. Must have been some top commentary spewin i missed it.

[Mr Muz]

Boffin, you have too much time on your hands mate. You should be working on that project of yours http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Was an enjoyable competition from my end, being on the other side of the fence as a judge and cone-fetcher. Was good to see so many teams get through enduro! Loved the commentary, definitely livened up the atmosphere!

[Kirby]

Just wanted to say I was really happy with a majority of competition. Especially all the alumni that helped out, I would like to see more of this again.

The results, as always, need to be verified by the SAE-A. So hopefully everyone can get the clarification they requrire in the coming weeks.

Ashmeet: It appears you were mis-informed (which to me is very disappointing) but: D8.22.3 Vehicles whose corrected time exceeds 1.45 times the corrected time of the fastest team, will receive
zero (0) points for fuel economy.

Edit: WRT to Adelaide results on Natsoft for round two, they DNF'ed after the first lap. They were allowed back out to give some of the new drivers some time on track and get some data.

Edit 2: Geoff, I don't have your personal email, can you please email me (address you have) or give me a call. Cheers

[Luke_Morrow]

Geoff,

Out of factual content by 9:30AM Saturday, didn't you start commentary at 9:29AM?

Irrespective, you both did a GREAT job! From my point of view, adding the hill, scheduling tech inspections and commentary all weekend have been the 3 biggest improvements since the 2004 event.

Chat soon,

Luke

[Robyn]

I registered just so I could add my $0.02...volunteered for the event this year, as I couldn't commit the time to the RMIT team. I had never attended an FSAE comp before and I have to say that it was an absolutely fantastic event. I was working in the SAE offices a day a week in the month or so leading up to comp and you would never guess that this comp was organised by four people in a tiny office. Well done Michela, Rose, Max and Geoff. I was totally impressed by how well so many of the teams performed, and my hat goes off to IIT Roorkee for completing Endurance. Geoff and Kev, your commentary was hilarious (especially when Geoff's mic wasn't working....hehehehe). For everyone who's looking for correct scores (including myself!) we'll just have to be a little bit patient...on Sunday night Rose dashed home from the track at about 8:15pm, and went straight on her own computer to upload the results a bit after 9:30pm. So the SAE-A team have been working INCREDIBLY hard to make all this happen.

[Brootal]

Here's a few of my images from the event. Mainly ECU, but I'll throw up a few from the other teams as well.

As you may know by now, the ECU Racing entry this year was built to honour Ron Tauranac and Sir Jack Brabham. No, it was not a shameless attempt to gain more points in design.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1238.jpg

The man himself checking out the car.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0676.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0681.jpg

A few pics of our car in action.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0904.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0920.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0947.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0971.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1021.jpg

I spotted a strange alien-like creature. Most likely a Monash experiment in driver training gone wrong.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1023.jpg

Can't quite tell in this pic, but Dan has it three-wheeling through the cones. Might not be ideal, but it sure looks cool!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1058.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1067.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1071.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1294.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1331.jpg

We were Design Finalists this year for the third time running. The experience obviously paid off as we won the event.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1078.jpg

Rex Chan 'liked' our car, but he 'LOVED' UWA's Yellow Peril.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1361.jpg

WA teams represent!

Must be something in the traffic lights over here. WA teams went 1-2-3 in the acceleration event.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1368.jpg

Design event finalists. Monash, Auckland, ECU and RMIT.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1376.jpg

Team ECU Racing 2011. Job well done, boys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1403.jpg

Now here's a few pics of some of the other team cars.

ADFA
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0741.jpg

Sydney
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0746.jpg

RMIT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0778.jpg

Nippon Inst Tech
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0813.jpg

Melbourne
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0830.jpg

UWA's car looked amazing, especially once fitted with the 'wank pods' (as some less than kind people were overheard saying).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0934.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_0938.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1342.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1347.jpg

Monash
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1257.jpg

Arguably the most popular car at the event, IIT Roorkee's entry. It was running a Royal Enfield air-cooled 500cc engine. Apparently this was the first time the driver had ever driven a car, any car!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Brootal/FSAE-A%202011/ECUR11SAE_1339.jpg

[mech5496]

Brootal, great pics and love the way your post is written, with comments below each photo. Keep them coming! (Where is Rex Chan?! Great job for the first two days, but we need MOAR!http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

[Brootal]

Thanks, Harry. I've spent way too much time on forums over the years and one thing that bugs me is photos without explanations. It takes more time but it's worth the effort. I also work as a freelance journalist, so it's kind of second nature to me.

[Rex Chan]

Sorry guys: Melbourne had an electric water pump issue right at the end of AutoX, which we spent the rest of the arvo trying to diagnose, and had "fixed" by first Enduro: hence the lack of updates (just too busy with fixing stuff).

Other things that got in the way:

1. ADFA using our workshop Saturday night to fix their steering arm thing, so instead of going to bed early to get to comp early Sunday, I stayed up til 2AM watching the ADFA guys work to fix their car, as well as have a very close look at their 2010/11 car.

2. Afterparty (ended up with the Auckland guys in Sunshine Sunday night/Monday morning).

3. Driver Swap checks on Monday

4. Driver swap on Tuesday.

So, its been a pretty busy couple of days.

BTW: After the driver swap, we (Melbourne Uni) will be looking into borrowing Monash's old wings to attach to oyur 2011 car. More info to come in the driver swap thread.

[tgman2]

That alien-like creature posted above is from a musty cupboard in the lab. It mostly gets wheeled out for open days and driver training.

http://www.redbackracing.unsw....imgp9534%20small.jpg (http://www.redbackracing.unsw.edu.au/images/stories/OpenDay/imgp9534%20small.jpg)

Awesome comp, great to see so many competitive and reliable cars as well as some interesting new concepts.

[Charles Kaneb]

Originally posted by Z:
Let's look at some of UWA's results;

Acceleration = 50/50, placed 1st,
Skid-Pad = 55/75, 2nd,
AutoCross = 100/100, 1st,
Endurance = 298/300, (very close) 2nd,
Fuel Economy = 68.4/125?, 1st,
Combined EnduroFE = 356.8/425?, 1st,

So, it seems this is a fast and efficient car...

Design = 99/200, 16th!!!

Judges, please explain!

Z

So they had a dominant car, where their only two defeats were in an event that they made a design decision not to win and a very close loss in the enduro, and lost the competition because of a static event?

I think the points distribution for the design event needs to be looked at - you shouldn't win on the track, lose in the tent, and have it add up to losing.

[Kevin Hayward]

Charles,

As stated earlier UWA scored poorly in design because it was a second year car.

It should be entirely possible for a team to lose the event on the basis of a static event. Theoretically a university could hire Dallara to build a car, enrol some professional drivers and win the competition.

In this case the UWA team brought a vehicle that the previous team had built, and had already run an Australian competition. The purpose of the competition is to educate the students in how to project manage, design and build.

I know that the UWA guys are not upset about their position. They made a decision to bring a second year car to help rebuild a team that had been declining in recent years. With the points penalty they were very excited to finish 2nd and will be back next year with an all new car.

It is odd that posters are feeling an indignation not shared by the team itself.

Kev

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Charles Kaneb:
I think the points distribution for the design event needs to be looked at - you shouldn't win on the track, lose in the tent, and have it add up to losing.

Absolutely that scenario should be possible! The only way an event can have zero chance of impacting the final score is to eliminate it. Think about what you are saying; you are implying all static events should be eliminated. That is certainly not in the spirit of the competition.

It's not as if UWA won all the dynamic events, and finished something like 10th overall. They finished 2nd, which is still quite an accomplishment.

[Aneeshmittal10]

Arguably the most popular car at the event, IIT Roorkee's entry. It was running a Royal Enfield air-cooled 500cc engine. Apparently this was the first time the driver had ever driven a car, any car!

Brootal you have to agree about one thing, the second driver was much better. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Aneesh Mittal/Ricky (the second driver)
IIT Roorkee Motorsports

[Kirby]

Originally posted by Aneeshmittal10:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Arguably the most popular car at the event, IIT Roorkee's entry. It was running a Royal Enfield air-cooled 500cc engine. Apparently this was the first time the driver had ever driven a car, any car!

Brootal you have to agree about one thing, the second driver was much better. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Aneesh Mittal/Ricky (the second driver)
IIT Roorkee Motorsports </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, but your first guy managed a 1:30. Not Bad!

I actually really wanted to have a drive of your car to see what it was like....maybe next year. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MileyCyrus]

Some photo's taken by one of our very talented workshop staff.

http://www.uow.edu.au/~sselby/# (http://www.uow.edu.au/%7Esselby/#)

[Brootal]

Great set of photos. Thanks for sharing.

[TaylorSwift]

Yeah, great pictures miley. I especially like the ones featuring the milkman.

[Big Bird]

Originally posted by Big Bird:
We actually had around 18 (more?) teams finishing endurance too. It seems the 50 completion points for endurance weren't counted either...


OK, I've realized I was wrong. You don't get 50 completion points if your time is over Tmax. But if your endurance score is less than the number of laps you completed, then you are meant to be credited with one point per lap completed. So there are a few teams who deserve such points, e.g. Roorkee

[Rex Chan]

And Melbourne, unless we managed to get under the 1.45 rule.

[MartyB]

Hey guys,

Here's a little video one of our team members made from the weekend: http://vimeo.com/34071642

Thanks.

[brettd]

Originally posted by Kevin Hayward:
The purpose of the competition is to educate the students in how to project manage, design and build.
Shouldn't this include test?! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[CandiceW]

Results have been revised, http://www.saea.com.au/2011/12...e-a-event-coming-up/ (http://www.saea.com.au/2011/12/05/formula-sae-a-event-coming-up/)

[woodsy96]

Hardly overall results.

[MalcolmG]

and the fuel scores still can't be right if they're using the equation from the rules (unless they're using a Vmax around 4L and RMIT used around 0.1L). Why can't they post actual raw fuel used values? So frustrating...

[ecstatic]

Originally posted by Kevin Hayward:
Z,

The endurance and autocross scores are also helped significantly by the most experienced driver in FSAE. Pete has won more autocrosses than probably any other driver. Even with Pete the UWA car had slower lap times than Monash. It was a lack of hit cones that meant the difference in both of the events.

Kev

Kev I really think UWA can speak for themselves on matters like this.

Besides if you want to attribute an advantage to having an experienced FSAE member on their team every year, then surely ECU could have some of their design points attributed to your influence on their team.

[NickFavazzo]

Kev is correct in saying Pete helped heaps with the events both dynamic and static. However a team is made up of members not individuals and Pete helps to get us other drivers up to scratch also so come next year we all could be pete's...or not http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , in the 2009 driver swap Ashan and Pete swapped cars and quite quickly began settings times a tenth off each others times.

We have had faster drivers on the team but what it comes down to on the day is who's car works, is the driver comfortable, and who drives the best ie cones vs time vs cook engine etc...

@ecstatic Kev was a big part of UWAM and knows us and the formula well, what Kev said is the truth.

Experience can come in many forms, faculty advisor (Monash, ECU RMIT) or from members (UWA). Passing on the experience is (what I believe to be) the important bit.

Statics are a huge part of the event, remember it is an engineering design and build competition, not a race weekend.

as Kev said earlier UWAM made a decision to reuse the chassis, as did many other teams, we took the penalty on the nose, it just happened that the cards fell the way they did and we came away with second, we are more than happy considering that in jan 2010 we had 5 people, we now have 25 students who cannot wait to begin work on a new concept.

Big congrats to all teams (not just India) to a great weekend, my best/favourite competition so far!

[NickFavazzo]

Also I would really love to see what is up with the economy results.

On a side note, if anyone has some competition footage of UWAM and is happy for us to have it that would be awesome, our go-pro died so we have plenty of stills not so many movies..

Cheers

[Lorenzo Pessa]

Originally posted by MartyB:
Hey guys,

Here's a little video one of our team members made from the weekend: http://vimeo.com/34071642

Thanks.

Nice video.

I think you need to improve in coffee making.
I would never drink a so long coffee like that! :-)

[Kevin Hayward]

Ecstatic,

I wasn't trying to bag out UWA. I was trying to explain to Z why UWA finished where they did in design. All said and done UWA made the right call to bring a second year car. They have some really switched on guys in the current team and I would expect them near the top again with their new 2012 car. As Nick mentioned I was from UWA originally. While ECU might compete with them now, I still have pride in the yellow section of my wardrobe.

My idea of a perfect Australian comp would be ECU, UWA 1-2 (with maybe Curtin 3rd). Apart from Monash getting in the way and the UWA guys messing up the West Australian order it came pretty close this year.

I also do not mean to imply that the UWA car was slow. Without Pete the car would likely have finished in 3rd place, a bit further back on endurance points, and a place or two down on autocross. The other drivers did a very good job and out-paced most of the other teams.

A good driver alone cannot get you to the top, but one really good driver can mean the difference between 2nd/3rd and 1st place.

Kev

[STAATSWANN]

awww thanks kev... id love to see curtin come 3rd as well http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif infact 3rd would be as good as 1st to me given what we are up against (the monash's, UWA's, RMIT's, ECU's)

i think Nick made a very good point on carry information from year to year... this is one thing Curtin has always struggled with as we don;t really have a static member either in the team or in the university... our faculty advisor is a technician who has minimal involvement with the team and the dept of mech eng's main support is monetary... now im not saying this is a bad thing... as the money they give us is much appreciated and the lack of a hand on faculty advisor leave us to manage ourselves... which i believe we learn alot from... the main problem with this is that because we dont have that one persons from year to year to help transfer knowledge, we find ourselves making the same mistakes or chasing our tails alot...

this transfer of knowledge is something we have really started working on since 2008... and i think if you watch our performance since 2008 we are slowely getting better at it and clawing our way into a more competative position... its a very slow process for us...

anyway my main point is the success of team like UWA and ECU etc cant be put down to pete and kev as individuals... although they are both very skilled at what they do an do give those teams a slight edge... i believe more of the advantage for UWA and ECU is seen in the knowledge transfer from year to year that pete and kev are able to provide...

a teams ability to quickly turn new members from knowing very little about FSAE to being very knowledgable in FSAE cars / competitions etc in a short period of time is where real success can be found...

i hope i made valid points... i have a habit of rambling about irrelevant stuff

[ecstatic]

anyway my main point is the success of team like UWA and ECU etc cant be put down to pete and kev as individuals... although they are both very skilled at what they do an do give those teams a slight edge... i believe more of the advantage for UWA and ECU is seen in the knowledge transfer from year to year that pete and kev are able to provide...


Yeh this is what I always want to get across at the end of comps. Sometimes people want to say this team is good because .... rather than this team was good period. We could go on forever about the haves and the haves not. UWA has a driver, Monash have a wind tunnel, Delft have spaceship materials, Stuttgart have a massive team, ECU have a very closely related degree.

You have got to really respect the way the Aus teams treat each other though, stuff like car swaps are an awesome way to bring the quality of the competition up rather than having one team dominate.

[Aneeshmittal10]

Still no results of the bottom 8 teams. I suppose that would be available only after office reopens on 9 Jan. Till then, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year everyone.



Maybe, but your first guy managed a 1:30. Not Bad!

I actually really wanted to have a drive of your car to see what it was like....maybe next year. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maybe at next year's driver swap http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aneesh Mittal
IIT Roorkee Motorsports

[Chris Ford]

Originally posted by STAATSWANN:
... our faculty advisor is a technician who has minimal involvement with the team ...
Hey Staats, that needs a bit of editing.

"Our faculty advisor was a technician who had minimal involvement with the team. Now we have an academic who learnt a heap from this year's comp and is hoping to help make sure that team knowledge isn't lost from year to year."

There ya go. :-)

[Pete Marsh]

Does anyone know what's happening with the scores?
Do we need to return a trophy?
Big Bird?

Fuel can't be right can it? Vmin would need to be less than 0????
Does anyone from RMIT know what they actually did burn? I'm assuming they are responsible for Vmin.

Pete

[Sim]

Unless I'm reading the SAE-A website wrong, it suggests we have to give one trophy back (Fuel) but thankfully - from UWA's perspective at least - it doesn't look like it has affected overall results.

http://www.saea.com.au/2011/12...e-a-event-coming-up/ (http://www.saea.com.au/2011/12/05/formula-sae-a-event-coming-up/)

Economy Results:
1 RMIT
2 Uni Melbourne
3 QUT
4 UWA

[Scott Wordley]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:
and the fuel scores still can't be right if they're using the equation from the rules (unless they're using a Vmax around 4L and RMIT used around 0.1L). Why can't they post actual raw fuel used values? So frustrating...

Hi guys,

My calculations agree with those of Malcom, so I think there is still a big problem with the Fuel Economy scoring. Perhaps in the way the E85 correction factor has been applied.

Geoff can you please double check the results and the scoring formula used? Or even see if SAE-A can release some more detail results?

I think we are missing around 35 points currently, and many other teams are probably in the same boat.

Teams who competed at the recent Aus comp can you please post what type and amount of fuel you used for enduro so we can have a go at reverse engineering the scoring and figure out where the problem is.

Monash used around 3.2L and 3.3L in each enduro from memory.

It would be really helpful if the guys from RMIT could let us know what they used as the winner and Vmin. I am assuming around 2L adjusted or maybe less?

Cheers,

[Fantomas]

Probably I am overpacing, but what the hell is going on there?
I mean, if the competitors have to reverse engineer the scoring to make sure that it is done right...then something is completely going in the wrong direction.
Probably it would be the best, if SAE-A would publish all detailed results.

Fantomas

[luxsosis]

UWA used 2.6 and 2.9L in each enduro, calculated using a density of 0.76.

Let alone the fuel/top 3 fiasco, be nice if they could release results for the rest of the teams as well.

[Boffin]

Originally posted by Scott Wordley:
Teams who competed at the recent Aus comp can you please post what type and amount of fuel you used for enduro so we can have a go at reverse engineering the scoring and figure out where the problem is.
RMIT used 2.8 of E85 i believe (it was 2.8 something L?? KG?? I thought it was L, but that doesn't make sense). Time possibly greater than Tmax though??

[Rex Chan]

I wrote down the start and end kg we used. Kah Shen then turned this into a petrol equivalent amount, which was 3.2L (98 RON). We used E85.

I will try to find those figures, so we can re-check our calcs.

We only completed the first enduro heat (in the wet).

[NzChops]

We calculated 3.05L of 98 for our endurance run(the 1st heat) just after we were refueled. I'm unsure what density we used but it should be fairly accurate.

[MalcolmG]

Originally posted by Boffin:
RMIT used 2.8 of E85 i believe (it was 2.8 something L?? KG?? I thought it was L, but that doesn't make sense). Time possibly greater than Tmax though??
That makes sense, that would be an equivalent of around 1.8L of 98 RON (IIRC the factor used is 1.5?), which based on fuel scores in other wet enduros seems about right for a ~160kg single.

[Scott Wordley]

Malcom I think the correction factor is 1.4, unless there is something different in the addendum?

The rules state?

E85 Correction Factor
The volume of E85 fuel will be divided by a 1.40 correction factor to determine the gasoline
equivalent volume. This correction factor is equal to the ratio of energy (lower heating value) per unit volume of gasoline to E85.

If 2.8L of E85 is correct for RMIT that would put them at 2.0L adjusted for 98RON.

Also if us and Melbourne did use the same adjusted amount of 98RON we should probably get the same score, currently there is a 43 point difference. And if Auckland used less than both of us they should get more points (they are currently 33 points behind Melbourne), and UWA even more points (currently 20 points behind Melbourne). ECU are also not listed in the fuel economy results, but seem to have scored about 32 points based on subtracting their combined Endure/Economy from their enduro only score.

Based on these estimates (some of which may turn out to be incorrect), I get the following numbers:

______________________Actual___Current
_____________98RON____Points___Official
_____________Used_____Scored___Score______Delta

RMIT_________2.0______125______125________0
UWA_________2.6______105______68.5_______37
Auckland______3.05_____90_______55.2_______35
Melbourne_____3.2______85_______88.5_______-3
Monash_______3.2______85_______45.3_______40
ECU__________?________?________32?________?

I wouldn't worry if it was only a couple of points but 40 is a pretty big chunk, more than what we scored in the Acceleration event!

[Fantomas]

Overall results have just been published:
FSAE-A 2011 Overall (http://www.saea.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Overall-Result.pdf)

Do they seem to be correct?

Fantomas

[luxsosis]

Economy scores at least are still wrong.

[StevenWebb]

i thought i solved it, adding an e85 corection factor to vmax for non e85 cars gets you pretty close, but not quite close enough.

i'm confused

[Fantomas]

Has someone directly asked SAE-A for the raw values of Endurance and Economy?

Fantomas

[MalcolmG]

This is just such a farce now. How can SAE-A place such an emphasis on the importance of the fuel economy event, making it worth 125 points, then a month after competition still not be able to get the scores for it right? Has anyone had any sort of formal communication from them on the matter?

Perhaps in future they can get a student to develop a spreadsheet that will randomly generate scores for events, and just use that instead.

[Z]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:
... develop a spreadsheet that will randomly generate scores ...
I'm currently doing my tax return. I'm old-school, so I use a dartboard. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Z

[Rex Chan]

SAE-A is just made up of people, and they make mistakes. I've talked to Geoff Pearson about how comp is organsied, and I understand it to be made up of very few people, and quite a few volunteers.

Thus, I think teams (at least local Melbourne ones), should get in touch with SAE or Big Bird to see how they can help out (rather than just complain on these forums); I hope SAE-A would appreciate a more pro-active approach to helping the admin side of things.

I for one would like to see much more detailed past results, and am thinking about helping out to make this happen (as long as SAE-A is ok with it). How do other teams feel about this? (i.e. Are you ok with someone who is actively involved with a current team (MUR) doing stuff at SAE-A?).

The SAE-A offices are in the city, and Melbourne Uni is very close by, so it's very easy + convenient for me to drop by.

[Big Bird]

Sorry, haven't been on these boards for a couple of weeks. I'll be back in the SAE office on Monday and will see what can be done about publishing full results. I know how useful such data is.

Thanks Rex for the above support. It is very easy to sit at a computer and complain, but having been on the other side of the fence now I now know first hand what a huge effort is put in, and by a huge number of volunteers. I know all the officials were knackered by end of Sunday, and many had to front back up again for clean-up, reviews, etc etc.

The results confusion was unfortunate, and we are putting procedures in place to try to prevent it ever happening again.

But as per Rex's comments above; if you want a perfect event, by all means tell us how it could be better - but then tell us how you can help us to make it better. The latter is the important bit http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers all,

[mech5496]

Pat is back with another great write-up, this time with insights from FSAE-A.

http://www.formulastudent.de/f...article/pats-corner/ (http://www.formulastudent.de/fsg/pr/news/details/article/pats-corner/)

[Rex Chan]

That's our car (Melbourne Uni/MUR 2011) "featured" in the Design Error of the Month.

Amusing photo of the Design Error of the Month (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150499727893036&set=a.10150499727728036.376739.559588035&type=1&ref=nf)

Our 2010 car had problems with the crimped ends pulling off (throttle cable being used as clutch cable - more force = more likely to slip). Thus, I wanted the 2011 guys to use a method that would not fail at the termination. This was our/my solution. And it has not slipped/failed where it used to; but it does put unnecessary stress on the cable now.

Hopefully, this will make the 2011 guys use a proper clutch solution (we have a Magura hydraulic clutch, and that has a proper end on it).

[Lorenzo Pessa]

Originally posted by Rex Chan:
That's our car (Melbourne Uni/MUR 2011) "featured" in the Design Error of the Month.

Amusing photo of the Design Error of the Month (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150499727893036&set=a.10150499727728036.376739.559588035&type=1&ref=nf)

Our 2010 car had problems with the crimped ends pulling off (throttle cable being used as clutch cable - more force = more likely to slip). Thus, I wanted the 2011 guys to use a method that would not fail at the termination. This was our/my solution. And it has not slipped/failed where it used to; but it does put unnecessary stress on the cable now.

Hopefully, this will make the 2011 guys use a proper clutch solution (we have a Magura hydraulic clutch, and that has a proper end on it).

Everyone get scared when Pat make a pic of a car but you are "sans merci"! :-)

[mech5496]

Haha, Pat was worried about not identifying you...:P

About the clutch, what we used is basically a cylinder with a blind threaded axial hole (M6) and a 3.5mm radial (through) hole for the cable to pass through. Then you just tighten the M6 bolt and leave it at place -it never slipped once, and we used it since 2007. Of course, if you do-undo it for 10-15 times, then your cable needs replacement....

[Big Bird]

Hi all,

I can't say much right now, but just to let you all know that the results issue is still being attended to and we will announce findings soon. On behalf of the SAE-A we apologize for the delay, obviously over the Xmas break we have had key people away on holiday and they are slowly returning.

As an aside - and I fear opening the floodgates here - if you have any feedback about the event please PM me and I will bring it up at the official debrief. Obviously the results issue will be addressed amongst other things...

[Big Bird]

Thanks for the PM's received thus far. Keep 'em coming!

[Big Bird]

And another idea...

Lets get a register together of what sort of volunteer resources we have available to commit to improving the event. We would probably all love to see proper garages and event buildings, maybe track improvements, viewing mounds, etc etc. If we were to just pay someone to do all this it will never happen, the funds just ain't there. But if we can find alumni, friends and family willing to donate some of their time to a better cause, we might start getting somewhere.

Got a builder / plumber / sparky in the family? Know people in construction, roadworks, etc? Ask around, lets see what we have available. It is a good cause. And of course, anyone willing to do labour work helping out builders, etc would be a great help too. Seriously, we are engineers. We like doing stuff. Don't we?

Now any site improvements will require approval from Vic Uni (landowners), but there is no harm in starting to organize ourselves. Insert cliche here about the greatest journey starting with a single step http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

There are a lot of people passionate about this event. Let's start organizing ourselves and making stuff happen. Leave a post on here, or PM me with your contributions and I'll get a database together.

[Adambomb]

Originally posted by Rex Chan:
That's our car (Melbourne Uni/MUR 2011) "featured" in the Design Error of the Month.

Amusing photo of the Design Error of the Month (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150499727893036&set=a.10150499727728036.376739.559588035&type=1&ref=nf)

Our 2010 car had problems with the crimped ends pulling off (throttle cable being used as clutch cable - more force = more likely to slip). Thus, I wanted the 2011 guys to use a method that would not fail at the termination. This was our/my solution. And it has not slipped/failed where it used to; but it does put unnecessary stress on the cable now.

Hopefully, this will make the 2011 guys use a proper clutch solution (we have a Magura hydraulic clutch, and that has a proper end on it).

Better to have an ugly quick fix than a DNS!

[Z]

Rex,

Don't they teach you kids how to tie a proper knot anymore?

(Mumble, mumble, "education system's shot.....")

Z

[Rex Chan]

What!? Melbourne Uni teach something practical? Never.

We don't even have lathes/mills: we're getting our new flat sump machined off campus, through a friend of a team's.

[NickFavazzo]

+1 on not doing anything practical, we jump through hoops to use lathes only to land and find they changed the game...

I have friends doing arts degrees with more experience on mills and lathes than most engineers I know...

[Lorenzo Pessa]

Originally posted by NickFavazzo:
+1 on not doing anything practical, we jump through hoops to use lathes only to land and find they changed the game...

I have friends doing arts degrees with more experience on mills and lathes than most engineers I know...

I don't start talking about italian university because I will have an easy win on Australia... :-)

[NickFavazzo]

Hi guys,

I know there was a company taking photos and video to produce a dvd of the event, they were advertising in the marshals tent though I have lost the business card.

Can anyone please forward me on the details so I can get myself a copy of the dvd and photos?
Regards,

[Rex Chan]

I know there's usually a company called JJ's Photography; not sure if this is the one you're talking about?

Might pay to ask SAE-A directly.

[Edward Jackson]

Yes, I think it's looks like a JJ'photography. I saw the same kind of photo somewhere. How to pay SAE-A directly? I don't have any idea about this.

[Big Bird]

"As an aside - and I fear opening the floodgates here - if you have any feedback about the event please PM me and I will bring it up at the official debrief. Obviously the results issue will be addressed amongst other things..."

Just a bit of a bump - official debrief coming up soon, so any please send any feedback through by tomorrow (Thurs) night.

Cheers!

Geoff

[Fantomas]

Any updates on the results?

[Big Bird]

Will be advised / confirmed after Friday

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Well?!

[StevenWebb]

Originally posted by Kirk Feldkamp:
Well?!

they cant show you the event and give results in the same show, that would leave no time for the audience to text in who they'd like to win!. I was going to vote for rmit, but when they didnt give MUR the rose on week 7 i decided to start voting for the underdog, IIT Roorke. unfortunately they were voted off the island in week 12.

[Rex Chan]

I lol'd.

I'm not sure which (reality) TV show Webb is referring to, but it sure sounds like a fun way to score comp. If they do decide to change the points allocation later on in the year (one month before comp should make things interesting, and beat their previous attempt), I'd like to let everyone know my vote goes to Auckland (awesome guys, and hardest working powertrain team in Australia).

Though, if this is via SMS, we can vote more than once, right? So since I'm into wings atm, my vote would also have to go to Monash, ECU, and Adelaide (who should both get the award for sneakiest way to reveal wings: ECU - no pictures of the car on fb before comp, then BAM! biggest wings in Aus rolling off the trailer; and Adelaide - fb update saying "look at us going testing with pretty wings" (which you didn't even know we had/made)).

As for voting teams off the island: maybe we could vote people off the island???

[Big Bird]

No-one would vote you off the island Rex - you are too likable.

Sorry about this scoring issue, I said any updates would be after Friday and it seems I was correct. I'm not in a position to make official announcements yet, but promise I will update you all as soon as I can.

Thanks for your patience,

Geoff

[Fantomas]

Geoff,
how can this simple thing take so long? The other comps manage to get correct scores right after Endurance...
I suppose, if the organizers would just release the raw values of Fuel and Endurance, someone here will figure out the correct scoring in no time.

Although I know that the organizers put a lot of effort in an event, but nevertheless this is embarassing.

Fantomas

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Maybe there should be a FSAE reality show...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w536Alnon24

It's amazing how different they all are!

[Fantomas]

Still no updates?

Fantomas

[Fantomas]

It seems to me that SAE-A tries to sit this out. Quite pathetic, if you ask me.

Fantomas

[MalcolmG]

Originally posted by Fantomas:
It seems to me that SAE-A tries to sit this out. Quite pathetic, if you ask me.

Fantomas

well...


Originally posted by Big Bird:
The results confusion was unfortunate, and we are putting procedures in place to try to prevent it ever happening again.
I think I've figured it out, the solution is - don't release results! From now on 3 teams will be given placings in events and 10 teams will be given overall positions. No further discussion will be entered into. And the entry fee is going up.

[Fantomas]

I supposes they figured out that revised results would change overall placings, possibly including teams which got trophies. So it would be quite embarrassing to admit this, but it would still be the better way to handle this.

Fantomas

[NickFavazzo]

In defence of the SAE-A guys, for a new bunch of guys I think it is being handled well, the results were inconsistent on the first release and they are holding off on releasing revised results until they are 100% on them. The guys who ran the comp did such a great job, the competition ran smoothly, you can't expect a new and inexperience team to not make some mistakes, I have spoken to a few people involved and it IS still being worked on. My understanding is that no trophies need to be re-awarded.

[Big Bird]

Greetings all,

Thanks Nick for the words of support. You have pretty well nailed it, there were a lot of new players for 2011 and it has taken some time to find the errors (read, throwing out the old spreadsheet and building a new one from scratch), and secondly working through the layers of review (with volunteers who have not been all available at once since the event).

Having said that, we are embarrassed this has happened and are comprehensively reviewing our operational procedures so this does not happen again.

The new amended results are now up, and in response to requests you will find they are a lot more comprehensive than previous. We trust you will use this information wisely to assist your design process.

Thank you all for your patience. And to those with advice to offer, we cordially invite you to volunteer for the 2012 event, where you may apply your energies directly into making a better event for all concerned.

Kind regards,

[Kevin Hayward]

Geoff,

It is a credit to the SAE that despite making some big mistakes that we got some correctly updated scores. Frankly it was the only let down of a very good competition.

My big concern is what rules we are building to this year? Are we to build to the scoring formulas in the US rules, or is there an ammendment to screw things up again? I would suggest that where we significantly deviate from the rules, such as with a new scoring breakdown, that we need to have the ammendment at the start of the year (or earlier).

I cannot recall any definite statement as to whether the ammended scorings would continue or we would return to a more sensible solution of following established international rules that are already published.

Kev

[Big Bird]

Thanks Kev.

There will be a meeting next week where we will be addressing the concerns you have raised below regarding rules amendments. I doubt there will be anything major, and we will ensure any such amendments will be communicated straight away.

Specifically in regard to scoring, I understand that the event scoring breakdown will be the same as last year.

Cheers,

[MalcolmG]

Geoff - it's excellent to see some positive change already http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That scoring breakdown is a huge step up from previous years (most of my historic points breakdowns are in the form of photos of the sheets posted at the admin tent at comp!). It's great to finally see a good level of transparency. If it could be pushed a little further, is it possible in future to see the breakdown for the cost event too?

And congratulations on the new position, I look forward to seeing what you can achieve at SAE-A.

[Big Bird]

Hi Malcolm,

Thanks for that, we'll see what we can do. Personally I would have loved to give cost breakdown as well, but I didn't have access to it.

I reckon we can achieve a lot, given the quality of alumni and supporters we have here in Oz. We'll be putting out a call soon for people interested in helping out for FSAE-A this year - whether it be before or at comp, here in Melbourne or otherwise (we live in the digital age, we can do a lot of stuff over the net). I'll start a new thread on that front soon.

Cheers,

[TMichaels]

Hi,
those of you wondering: We are aware of the changed results and will change them in the World Ranking List as well.

An idea for improvement:
The current link for the webpage with the results is:
http://www.saea.com.au/formula-sae-a/2008-overview/

This seems odd.

[Rex Chan]

YAY! REsults in Excel format. Whoopee! I haven't opened it yet. Will edit with after I do...

So, what did we (Melbourne) come in Fuel Economy? I'm loving the data, but confused about how the Fuel awards are scored...

[uts_terry]

Great to have these detailed results. Thanks to Geoff and other event staff for getting this done.

....even though it now puts UNSW .01 points ahead of us

[Kevin Hayward]

My team has told me that it is not well known that Rex Chan has a fan site. For those that need to know what Rex Likes please go to the following site:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/...this/327108707319615 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rex-Chan-likes-this/327108707319615)

Undoubtedly some important reading before this years competition.

Kev