indians polluting the forums

[RaceCatt69]

Riddle me this: why are so many people from india polluting this forum by asking poorly worded and vague questions?

http://global3.memecdn.com/comparison-between-google-india-original-google_o_384749.jpg

[Racer-X]

Because they want to get involved in our activity and need assistance. Nothing wrong with that.

You do know that Google search suggestions are personalized, right?

[acedeuce802]

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...48/m/61020766151/p/1 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/61020766151/p/1)

[Jon Burford]

Cultures should be embraced even if it is different to our own. People have to learn.
Leave if you don't like it.

[M. Nader]

Their English is not as good as the native speakers but why is that a problem? I can make a bet that their English is better than your Indian so why are you bashing someone who can express himself in more languages than you!

Aside from that they come in here to learn and this involves them making posts, don't like them don't answer them. From what i understand the education system in India is not 5 star so good on them they are trying to improve on that by coming in here to learn better ways.

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by acedeuce802:
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...48/m/61020766151/p/1 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/61020766151/p/1)

http://www.nocturnar.com/forum/attachments/humor/43103d1344189323-memes-lol-tumblr_m7xkfa5fsl1ro5utno2_500.png


There's a cultural and language barrier present. I'd probably appear the same way trying to participate on a japaneese, german, etc forum as well. Granted there is a different paradox for approaching for help (it seems like anyway) but there's no need to be rude about it.

quit making the english speaking world look like ignorant idiots!

also this just furthers my thought that he's trollololololling

[onemaniac]

I'm pretty sure the OP is more concerned with the vagueness of the questions they post.
To list a few examples (from my memory),
-Hi, How do I design a race car suspension? Help me Plz.
-Hi, What r the formulas for brake calculations? Thnx.
-Hi, What's the best material for ARB? I need this quick.

and it goes on.

Those questions, I'm pretty sure it has NOTHING to do with 'cultural' barrier.
If being lazy and taking short cuts is their culture, maybe it has.

[Racer-X]

Less of "cultural" thing and more of a where they are kind of thing. India is a 3rd world country with comparatively poor education system. They don't have the resources or history of FSAE that we do in the Western world.

You can't expect them to just figure it out and design in a vacuum, they would be starting from square one when the rest of us have 30+ years of fsae to build on. Look at the stuff that formula teams were building in the early 80's when this competition started and where we are now. Its really tempting to just ask people who know what they are doing, and copy their work, when they are starting from scratch.

They just need to get pointed in the right direction. You don't have to tell them what you did for brake calcs, but maybe where you got your info from. You can tell them to use the search function and read the sticky threads. Maybe we need a "n00b" section on the site.

Now why there are a million reposts on the same topic is a separate issue. That is annoying and the moderators need to delete them.

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by onemaniac:
I'm pretty sure the OP is more concerned with the vagueness of the questions they post.
To list a few examples (from my memory),
-Hi, How do I design a race car suspension? Help me Plz.
-Hi, What r the formulas for brake calculations? Thnx.
-Hi, What's the best material for ARB? I need this quick.

and it goes on.

Those questions, I'm pretty sure it has NOTHING to do with 'cultural' barrier.
If being lazy and taking short cuts is their culture, maybe it has.

I understand that much but you guys need to try and be a bit more "worldly" here. Not all countries and cultures are as driven as the americas and western europe. For example:

Its pretty common to see chineese knockoffs of other products. I've experience this first hand at work as well as through my dad who's currently involved with a project in china now. This is due to a number of reasons but the end result is something thats about 70% as good at 80% of the price of the "real deal".

You cultivate what you sow. When you grow up in an environment where the above is common practice, you accept it as natural or acceptable. India is a young growing industrial country that doesn't have the facilities and sometimes leadership to mold engineers to a "higher standard".

This is very much a cultural barrier that IS being addressed by others in the country but is obviously going to take some time to kick in.

No offense was meant by the post, just general observations and experiences of my own personal thoughts.

[onemaniac]

Originally posted by jlangholzj:

I understand that much but you guys need to try and be a bit more "worldly" here. Not all countries and cultures are as driven as the americas and western europe. For example:

Its pretty common to see chineese knockoffs of other products. I've experience this first hand at work as well as through my dad who's currently involved with a project in china now. This is due to a number of reasons but the end result is something thats about 70% as good at 80% of the price of the "real deal".

You cultivate what you sow. When you grow up in an environment where the above is common practice, you accept it as natural or acceptable. India is a young growing industrial country that doesn't have the facilities and sometimes leadership to mold engineers to a "higher standard".

This is very much a cultural barrier that IS being addressed by others in the country but is obviously going to take some time to kick in.

No offense was meant by the post, just general observations and experiences of my own personal thoughts.

I see what you're saying. I agree it is a cultural barrier in that sense.
I too worked for a company that imports a lot from a company in China and their craftmanship standard was quite ridiculous and they were one of the leading manufacturer in that field. I had to do a lot of modifications during inspection and yet my boss told me they're still the best in the market.
'Good enough' is a subjective statement dictated by the environment.

[Owen Thomas]

This is just my opinion, but I'm going to have to say that the amount of people who don't think for themselves and are just looking for handouts isn't drastically different over there than it is here.

I have not traveled much outside of North America, but the difference I see (especially within certain groups inside Canada) is that an astoundingly larger volume of Indians and Chinese are "pushed" into professional roles. Typically, your average western child does not want to grow up to be an engineer (let's be honest, it's awesome but people don't see it that way), and no one is telling them that they should be more realistic or practical in thier life goals. Meanwhile, it is expected by some cultures that thier children will all grow up to be engineers or doctors (eastern middle class), and anything less will not suffice. The reality is that some people are just not cut out for it, and if you don't want to do something you're probably going to go looking for the easiest way to get it done. Christ, as engineers it's our JOB to deal with um.. "less than average" people and fix thier problems on a daily basis! They're everywhere, especially in modern western culture.

Of course, I do not disagree with many of the things that have been said. The developing super powers of the world just need a little more time to get up to speed on modern standards and practices. I do not know if thier recent successes are attributable to thier "high-speed" education system or if it will inevitably come crashing down with all the suspectly designed infrastructure in a couple decades, but if recent history has taught us anything it's that these countries can and will catch up. Like a Veyron chasing a minivan.

I would also like to point out that the quality of education in an area or at a school is not directly proportional to the quality of a FSAE/FS team. Of course we all know this, but sometimes it comes out that way here on the forums.

Just my $0.02. Please continue trolling each other.

[P. Jayaraman]

Normally, I keep quiet about these matters, but perhaps the time has come to speak up.

And first off, let me just note that while I am American by nationality, I'm Indian by descent (my parents came to the US in the early 80's), so I have some experience when commenting on things that fall on either side of the cultural/geographic divide.

Anyway, onto my little ditty here. Consider the concept of outsourcing. More and more companies are now assigning the more run-of-the-mill engineering tasks to engineers over in India. If you give engineers in a given country tasks that don't necessarily require innovative thinking, how do you think educational institutions there are going to tailor their curricula? If all a person has to do is follow instructions, then that's what they'll be trained to do.

That being said, let me just say that there are some very good engineering institutions in India that try to push the concepts of creative problem solving and innovation. But as with any developing country, to see the real fruits of that labor will take time. Just bear in mind that you may not see those fruits in the form of creative problem solving in vehicle engineering (at least not yet). Right now, India has a few other problems that are probably a bit more pertinent.

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by onemaniac:
I'm pretty sure the OP is more concerned with the vagueness of the questions they post.
To list a few examples (from my memory),
-Hi, How do I design a race car suspension? Help me Plz.
-Hi, What r the formulas for brake calculations? Thnx.
-Hi, What's the best material for ARB? I need this quick.

and it goes on.

Those questions, I'm pretty sure it has NOTHING to do with 'cultural' barrier.
If being lazy and taking short cuts is their culture, maybe it has.

this^^^

[Jon Burford]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by onemaniac:
I'm pretty sure the OP is more concerned with the vagueness of the questions they post.
To list a few examples (from my memory),
-Hi, How do I design a race car suspension? Help me Plz.
-Hi, What r the formulas for brake calculations? Thnx.
-Hi, What's the best material for ARB? I need this quick.

and it goes on.

Those questions, I'm pretty sure it has NOTHING to do with 'cultural' barrier.
If being lazy and taking short cuts is their culture, maybe it has.

this^^^ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Yes, but people subsequently learn.
If you look back through my History on this forum, my first post asked for something very similar.
I learnt....

[JWard]

Don't let catt semi ironically troll you guys.

[Canuck Racing]

I suspect that I'm one of few people on this particular forum that still remember going to the library and finding formulas in books, and using the "List of Similar Titles" to find more books, and having to order said more books, and waiting for it's arrival only to discover it was way above my current level of understanding.

I survived. I'm sure any other inspiring engineers, regardless of ethnicity, can manage as well.

[exFSAE]

In all seriousness, I do attribute much of it to cultural barriers.

There are some cultures where problem solving is taught "by rote" as it were. Work is accomplished very proficiently and efficiently (hence the rise in off-shore technical outsourcing), but is contingent on having a firmly established process of how to arrive at an answer. For problem of type 'X', first do 'A', then 'B', then 'C' to arrive at answer 'D'. When a problem is well outside of the scope of what's defined in 'X' - someone indoctrinated in that culture may struggle to come up with a new process.

Not trying to be culturally insensitive at all, but that's a reality. There can be advantages to that mentality (as I said, efficiency in repeated operations), but IMO for those of us in North America it comes across as very lazy by our standards.

Some global companies go so far as to have cultural training as part of the onboarding process because the expectations in hierarchy, chain of command, and associate independence are very different. Beyond India, Japanese work environment culture and expectations are for example substantially different than those in the US.

So, why are Indians "polluting" (really a poor choice of word) the forums? Some people can't help it because it's truly outside the scope of how they've been taught to problem solve.. and would prefer diligently working at a well-defined process. I wouldn't go so far as to say that EVERYONE is like that, but it in my experience it is a real trend in a lot of people.

Regardless of whether or not OP is a troll or dumbass (both?), it's a point worth considering because the reality of global engineering is that you'll have to deal with this at some point.

[Warpspeed]

But it's all very rapidly changing folks.

While China and India are forging ahead and becoming much more prosperous and better educated, the US is stuck in reverse gear.

Make no mistake, in a very short time, many super smart degree qualified Americans will be homeless and dumpster diving for the next meal.

[Jon Burford]

The word pollute is used. Yet look at this thread, also TOTALLY FUCKING POINTLESS.
IF the people who are bothering Racecatt have missed all the other forum guidelines, they will have missed this too and new members will KEEP posting those questions.
Hence this is a discussion, based on wild speculation, that will make NO BLOODY difference at all. They call it PISSING INTO THE WIND where I'm from.

I cannot say from my experience having never traveled to that part of the world (although I would like to!), although my impressions would tend to agree with the majority of what exFSAE is saying.

Nevertheless, my opinion is also worthless, because nobody relevant will read it.
Ah well... If Indian (or from anywhere else for that matter) teams would like to ask reasonable questions, they can feel free to contact me at any time and I will offer help, if I feel I can be of help.

For me thats it.

Sorry for swearing. Although I'm not.

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by Jon Burford:
... They call it PISSING INTO THE WIND where I'm from...



where i'm from they have an expression too: "drinking shit and thinking it's tea"

and we all know that british people just feel obligated to side with india because you want to make up for invading and taking over their country for a few thousand years. so your opinion is biased and therefore void of logic.

[Racer-X]

Can I ask you a question Racecatt?

What did you want to achieve with this thread?

[JWard]

Once again...

Originally posted by JWard:
Don't let catt semi ironically troll you guys.

[RaceCatt69]

Originally posted by Racer-X:
Can I ask you a question Racecatt?

What did you want to achieve with this thread?

I want everyone to realize that india sucks. it really bothers me that so much time is wasted responding to their stupid questions.

[Simon Dingle]

Originally posted by JWard:
Once again...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JWard:
Don't let catt semi ironically troll you guys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

^This.

[Racer-X]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:

I want everyone to realize that india sucks. it really bothers me that so much time is wasted responding to their stupid questions.

I think we are all capable of determining if a country sucks or not on our own. We don't need you useless opinions. Secondly you don't have to respond to a question if you don't want. Do you think trolling us is an efficient use of your time?

[kcapitano]

Do you think trolling us is an efficient use of your time?
RaceCatt doesn't care about efficient use of time. He has no job, no hobby and is too stupid to do anything other than troll forums and bother people.

Do you think responding to his utterly pointless posts is an efficient use of your time?

[Racer-X]

Originally posted by RaceCatt69:


Real classy. Can we get this guy suspended or something?

[Moop]

Well, his avatar is scumbag steve...