Regarding front wings and aerodynamics...

[Urvina]

I was doing some research and I want to know if its legal in the FSAE to use the inverted wing shape for the underside of the chassis or if it has to be flat, or can you use a Venturi design with sidepods, or maybe both?

And with front wings, I have only seen one previous school use one on their car and that was UTA. Is there a reason for that?

My brain is boiling over with experimental designs and its 11pm, I want some sleep so could someone help me with this? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif....PLEASE!!!

Thanks,

Erin Urvina
University of Alaska Anchorage
Rookie Team

[Urvina]

I was doing some research and I want to know if its legal in the FSAE to use the inverted wing shape for the underside of the chassis or if it has to be flat, or can you use a Venturi design with sidepods, or maybe both?

And with front wings, I have only seen one previous school use one on their car and that was UTA. Is there a reason for that?

My brain is boiling over with experimental designs and its 11pm, I want some sleep so could someone help me with this? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif....PLEASE!!!

Thanks,

Erin Urvina
University of Alaska Anchorage
Rookie Team

[DY]

Alot of the aero that's illegal in other forms of formula racing is allowed in FSAE. So you can indeed use inverted wings where ever you like.

Other teams that have aero include:
UM Rolla
Pomona
Monash
and a few others

[UTA racer rikki]

Erin,

Hi. Just want to clarify, UTA was not the first to do aero, nor the first to do an undertray. We've tried a few configurations and are happy with the current package. If you have seen it, it's definitely easier than trying to describe it here. Our website has pictures of the older style undertray and wing package.

I will caution you, that you probably don't want to pursue aero right away. Most rookie teams have enough on their plate getting a simple car finished on time. Dig into that elephant one bite at a time.

Best of luck,

[gug]

ours:
http://formula-sae.adelaide.edu.au/photos/2004/finalcar/slides/IMGP3491.JPG

you would also want to check out monash: http://www-personal.monash.edu.au/~fsae/home.htm

and one of the most attractive aero cars (IMHO):
http://web.umr.edu/~formula/library/image_archive/2002_Events/2002_Formula_SAE_Competition/5-14-02/p1010037.jpg

there are lots of other teams with aero as well. if you are going to do aero, make sure you get the mounting sorted out early on. also search the forums, there has been lots of discussion on this topic.

[Frank]

the main "illegal" design is "sliding skirts"

[Eddie Martin]

Sliding skirts aren't banned as such frank, you just have to think laterally about it.

[mtg]

The #24 car is our 2002 car (the UMR sticker is almost impossible to see on that car). We have more pictures of it (with all of its stickers) and others on our website.

Thanks for the compliment, gug.

[Frank]

3.2.1 Ground Clearance
Ground clearance must be sufficient to prevent any portion of the car (other
than tires) from touching the ground during track events.


we always thought that meant no sliding skirts..

how do you see it Eddie?

[Eddie Martin]

Have a think about it Frank, think outside the box.

You can have sliding skirts on one of these cars and not break the rules.

[Jarrod]

you can put a floating skirt on, but have you ever looked at the system you would need to run it? Nightmare, and the suspension has to be stiff enough to keep the chassis and floor flat and at the right ride height. Just put really big wings on it!

[Urvina]

well what about shaping the underside of the car like an inverted wing, to create lower air pressure under the chassis and ultimately the entire car?

is that legal? is it even possible(for a first year school)?

[Greg H]

The problem with that is that you need to have the top surface to follow that design but your body will not function as the opposite surface of a wing. Search the forum for undertray design.

[Urvina]

i really don't see that, it seems like you could do it. maybe i don't know enough about aerodynamics, but wouldn't it work even somewhat regardless of the shape of the upperside of the car?
(with wings)

[Frank]

unsprung mounted undertray, but that still dont work properly

[gug]

hey Eddie, are you talking about some kind of vortex generator to seal the underbody? i wouldnt think you could get that kinda thing working on a fsae track, wings are hard enough...

[DY]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erin:
well what about shaping the underside of the car like an inverted wing, to create lower air pressure under the chassis and ultimately the entire car?
is that legal? is it even possible(for a first year school)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's legal and has been done. But not by a rookie team. Concentrate on core necessities first.

If you wish to continue pondering aero on the side, I really suggest you look thru UTA posts and pics on the matter in past threads. One of those threads had this:
http://maepro.uta.edu/fsae/02_undertray.jpg

[Steve Yao]

Aaaaand just in case we are not all familiar with the how wrong the commonly accepted myth of airfoils is:
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/miscon4.html#wing

Could also google the subject.

[Frank]

it has been done by a first year team

aukland did it

http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/sae_a_2004/images/auckland.jpg

[DY]

I stand corrected.

[Moke]

Cheers Frank, I was just going to mention out canvas. Although not the best picture to show off our under tray.

As far as I can tell there are few bad points with under trays, really a small weight increase and about it, rather than a looking like a TQ midget.

Plus you can paint it (but if you do you're copying)

[Urvina]

Boat race champ anchor?

is this an Auckland team thing?

[Frank]

boat race is a drinking competition http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Frank

Boat race "runner up" anchor (protest not upheld)