ECU Development Information

[Luis Martinez]

Hi.

I'm from the Simon Bolivar University, this year me and another team member are planning to build our own ECU as our undergraduate thesis.

I want to know if some of you know a link where we can find detailed information about the CBR 600 f4i and the stock ECU.

Thanks a lot.

Luis MartÃ*nez
Vicepresidente

JUNTA DIRECTIVA
EQUIPO F-SAE USB
Tel. & Fax: +58 212 906-4136
Cel: +58 416 715-5036
E-mail: formulasae@usb.ve
http://www.formulasae.grupos.usb.ve

[Luis Martinez]

Hi.

I'm from the Simon Bolivar University, this year me and another team member are planning to build our own ECU as our undergraduate thesis.

I want to know if some of you know a link where we can find detailed information about the CBR 600 f4i and the stock ECU.

Thanks a lot.

Luis MartÃ*nez
Vicepresidente

JUNTA DIRECTIVA
EQUIPO F-SAE USB
Tel. & Fax: +58 212 906-4136
Cel: +58 416 715-5036
E-mail: formulasae@usb.ve
http://www.formulasae.grupos.usb.ve

[Kamil S]

Hey Luis,

I don't have a link for the f4i, but if you search well you could probably find the engine service manual. I found one online for the 600RR, and it has a lot of info on the stock ECU.

[AJ]

My self and two others developed one from scratch that we ran in the 02 and 03 seasons. We used an F4i. Though I graduated a couple years ago, i might be able to come accross the information we had gathered before starting on our system. Let me know via boards or email.

[Luis Martinez]

Hi,

That information would be very usefull, I hope you can give me some of it.

Thanks a lot.

[erny]

Hi,I started designing an ECU a few months ago and am currently working on establishing the crank shaft angle from a VR sensor. I was wondering if you have tackled this problem yet.

[Luis Martinez]

Hi,

By the moment I don't have that information because I'm not dealed with that problem yet. If I found something I'll pass it to you.

Regards,

[Mechanicaldan]

If you didn't know about this website, then I think you'll find it pretty helpful. It's a do it yourself ECU project called MegaSquirt.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

and read at the bottom of this post for a link to LOTS! of bike manuals
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/98210551621

[Luis Martinez]

Ok, i'll check it.

Thanks a lot.

[erny]

is megasquirt a complete engine managemwnt system or does it just deal with injection?

[Dan G]

Complete. Can handle any kind of ignition system you'd like, including COP.

I recommend the Megasquirt'n Spark - Extra firmware...

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/

Features...
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>12x12 fuel tables
<LI>12x12 spark tables
<LI>DualTable code
<LI>Staged injection code
<LI>Rev limiter
<LI>Overboost protection
<LI>Mappable Air:Fuel Ratio target for use with wideband O2
<LI>Coolant temp timing advance
<LI>Inlet temp timing retard
<LI>MAPdot accel/decel enrichment
<LI>Anti-rev / Traction Control feature
<LI>Over-run fuel cut
<LI>Afterstart Enrichments
<LI>Cranking /Priming settings[/list]

Ignition control options:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>No ignition (fuel only)
<LI>Distributor for even-fire 2 stroke 1,2,3,4 cyl and
even-fire 4 stroke 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12,16 cyl
<LI>Ford EDIS
<LI>Dual Ford EDIS (e.g. 2 EDIS4 modules on a V8) TEST
<LI>Dodge Neon crank decoder
<LI>Ford TFI
<LI>GM 7 pin HEI
<LI>Toothed wheel decoder
<LI>Dual wheel decoder/2nd trigger[/list]

Some other nice extras...
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Switchable tables
<LI>Boost control
<LI>Water injection control
<LI>Dual EGO sensor support
<LI>Shift Lights
<LI>Launch Control/Flat shift
<LI>Programmable Outputs 1, 2, 3 and 4
<LI>Knock sensor input w/ timing & boost retard
<LI>PWM idle for use with variable valves
<LI>Nitrous control (min rpm, new timing map or fixed retard)
<LI>EGT logging
<LI>Tacho Output Pin
<LI>Mass Air Flow Meter use a MAF for fueling calculations[/list]

So as you can see, its a "full service" engine management system.

I'm installing MSnS-E on our '05 Briggs right now.

Another related thread...
http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/9651...10941321#75010941321 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/96510121321/r/75010941321#75010941321)

I'm also going to be using it on my new Porsche 951...
http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/albums/eVil951/IMG_2342.thumb.jpg (http://www.p-caronline.com/stuttgart/gielamonster/evil951.htm)

[Dan G]

One other thing to add. Megasquirt has the best looking and easiest to use GUI of any stand alone that I've seen. The Haltech "GUI" made me want to gag! And the user support available at http://www.msefi.com is unrivaled.

Some screenshots of the GUI (sorry, some of them are really big)...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/xscandalousx/007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/xscandalousx/006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/xscandalousx/005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/xscandalousx/004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/xscandalousx/003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/xscandalousx/002.jpg

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/martynm/MS/pics/vetune.gif

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/martynm/MS/pics/sparktune.gif

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/martynm/MS/pics/mslvv.gif

From these threads...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1625690

http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67447&PN=1&TPN=1 (http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67447&amp;PN=1&amp;TPN=1)

...that second thread has a great step-by-step from ordering on through to final tuning.

[Fred R.]

does the megasquirt do Sequential fuel injection also? Cant seem to find anything about that.

[Dan G]

Fred, no it doesn't do sequential injection control... yet. Although there's an arguement as to whether sequential injection is necessary at all. Certainly its not something you need to worry about until you feel you've come close to reaching the limits of batch or bank injection. Its really only needed if you're ready to go to individual cylinder tuning.


With the release of the new MSII daughter card (http://www.msefi.com/msinfo/ms2/), any version MS can be upgraded to leading-edge performance for only $72. The daughter card plugs right into place of the old HC08 processor and upgrades to a 16 bit, 24 MHz HC12 with 4x the memory.

The most exciting new feature is the CAN bus along with the upcoming router board. This will open the door to all kinds of great features and add ons, including full sequential fuel and COP ignition control allowing for individual cylinder tuning. I/O will be basically unlimited.

The software side of the MSII is still lagging behind the bells and whistles found in the MS1 with MSnS-E firmware. But that will change soon enough. And it can change even sooner if you or your team has the energy. All code for MS is open source, and the MSII is written in C.


Last note: another common complaint of the MS is it uses "small" 12x12 fuel and spark tables. What the whiners don't recognize is that the bins are user definable on both axis and the system does weighted 2-D interpolation. This allows you to put the values at the specific peaks and valleys of your engine that require special attention, not just every 500rpm or whatever the kit you bought came with. The tables are more than adequate to do their job, and will likely give the more inexperienced FSAE teams better results than some of the other systems flaunting 32x32 tables due to ease of tuning.

EDITED: Pulled out a claim to processing bragging rights. Motec et al still have that honor.

[erny]

Hi

Can megasquirt be used with coil on plugs. I was reading on website that it couldnt but i cant see the difference providing its still bank/batch injection.

Have any teams used megasquirt yet, it would significantly help in cost report. Even our cheap DTA ECu cost us around £500. Why arent more teams using them rather than £1500 molex etc?

[erny]

I am pretty interested in CAN as our cars loom is getting complecated. We have a few water temp sensors for example. Would megasquirt allow the one temp sensor data to be put on BUS and used by telem, DAQ and Cooling controllers?

Does anyone have any good CAN links for a beginner. Iv read how it works but havnt found to many examples.

[GTmule]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by erny:
I am pretty interested in CAN as our cars loom is getting complecated. We have a few water temp sensors for example. Would megasquirt allow the one temp sensor data to be put on BUS and used by telem, DAQ and Cooling controllers?

Does anyone have any good CAN links for a beginner. Iv read how it works but havnt found to many examples. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ditto!

[erny]

Just realised megasquirt needs a distributor, thats a shame

[GTmule]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by erny:
Just realised megasquirt needs a distributor, thats a shame </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read some stuff about it (MS 2) being able to use a regular crank pickup, I dind't get too far into it, though.

-Chuck

[Eric Wort]

Here's some info we compiled during our own effort to make our own ECU for an F4 engine:

http://coecsl.ece.uiuc.edu/me461/FSAE%20Engine%20Contro...%2028%20Aug%2003.pdf (http://coecsl.ece.uiuc.edu/me461/FSAE%20Engine%20Controler%20Owners%20Manual%2028%2 0Aug%2003.pdf)

I wouldn't build it this way if I was doing it again, but it should give you some ideas.

[Dan G]

Erny, some answers to your questions...

1. Yes, MS can run COPs. The support for sequential IGNITION (think spark 1, spark 2, spark 3, spark 4... instead of spark 1&4, spark 2&3, spark 1&4...) is still rather weak. Some people are running it, but its not "mainstream" yet. But very do-able, or you can just run the COP units in wasted spark mode.

2. Yes, I built/ran a MS for fuel only control on Carnegie Mellon's 2003 car with a GSX-R motor. I don't know if any other teams have used it in competition yet. The '06 UM-D car will be megasquirt'nsparked-extra'd.

3. Yes, the ECU plus LC-1 UEGO kit is significantly less expensive than even the next cheapest viable option (PE) but still offers equal or greater levels of performance and adjustability. I don't know why other teams haven't flocked to it.

4. I'm still a CAN-newbie myself. I understand its basic operation, but am not familiar with much more than that. I'll post up some related links in the next few days. I imagine you'll be able to use one temp sensor for multiple systems.

5. MS does not need a distributor at all. Pretty much the opposite. It is 100% DIS ready. Distributorless ignition is by far the preferred method of choice.

For spark triggering, you can input a huge variety of signals, and would need just a tach signal to do fuel-only control. It is probably the easiest ECU to trigger out there. Depending on the stock crank pickup, it may be reuseable. The MS likes things to be in the format #of spark events per crank rev*2*N -1 (or 2, or +1 or 2). For a four cylinder, a 3 toothed (2*2*1-1 = 4-1 = 3) wheel is the minimum necessary.

Its common to use a 36-1 wheel from the Ford EDIS setup, although a 60-2 wheel common for other stand alones, like Electromotive, would work fine as well.

If your engine was designed for distributorless ignition from the factory, chances are you could use a MS to control the stock parts using the stock sensors relatively easily.


Again, I'll post up some links on CAN stuff later this week.

[Chris Boyden]

Microchip.com (PIC) has some good application notes on CAN. They also sell CAN controllers and nodes for designing your own CAN peripherals.

[erny]

im pretty sure ms2 will not control cpark advance without distributor or Ford ESIS controller.

"MegaSquirt-II has the ability to control a variety of ignitions which have 1 coil and a mechanical distributor to distribute spark (such as the GM 7-pin HEI module), as well as the Ford EDIS and GM DIS ignition. "