FSAE-A improvements

[Jon Oneill]

Just though I'd start a forum post here, for the australian event competitors to list and discuss ideas / improvements for our event.

Personally, I would love to see a stronger focus on spectator interaction. I'd love to see the return of commentary the the event. Not just to explain the event to spectators, but also, to update competitors of what other teams are doing.

Personally, I'd love to see some of the more prominent Alumni step up and do this, as they should have a pretty good understanding of whats happening. Are any of the Moke TV guys interested?

[Jon Oneill]

Just though I'd start a forum post here, for the australian event competitors to list and discuss ideas / improvements for our event.

Personally, I would love to see a stronger focus on spectator interaction. I'd love to see the return of commentary the the event. Not just to explain the event to spectators, but also, to update competitors of what other teams are doing.

Personally, I'd love to see some of the more prominent Alumni step up and do this, as they should have a pretty good understanding of whats happening. Are any of the Moke TV guys interested?

[Ash47]

I would like to see some more awards on offer like some of the other competitions have.

E.g. Best paintwork, best use of composites, best team dance at afterparty, lightest car, etc

[NickFavazzo]

I would love to see much more involvement from the sponsors and businesses, I have not been overseas to compete but I hear stories of Companies interacting with students:O

more awards ie Honda powertrain award etc

Really just look at the German comp, video and commentary!

[Chris B]

Personally I'd like to see the venue rotated around the country, i.e brisbane one year, perth, adelaide, melbourne, sydney, etc. Reason is that at the moment the qld and WA teams are at a distinct disadvantage relative to the victorian teams as we have to pay to get too melbourne for the comp. for us coming from brisbane thats 10 days worth of car hire on two cars, plus fuel, plus 2 nights extra accomodation on the road somewhere. that;s easily 1-2 thousand dollars of wasted budget. if you were to rotate the venue around i feel it would make it fairer in this respect.

thats my two cents at least.

[NickFavazzo]

I don't think the turnout would be as great if it was held in WA, with 27 of the 30 teams needing to travel, it would be expensive. I would love for it to happen but doubt it will.

[Chris B]

i agree Nick, but being from WA yourself you're team would be in a similar situation to mine where every year you need to spend more of your budget simply on the logistics of getting to and competing in the comp compared to the victorian teams who have the comp just down the road every year and the added advantage that brings of if you need emergency parts or repairs etc their workshops are close by etc. i know itd never happen but as you say id love for it to because, itd help balance it out a bit and also lets be honest, its fun travelling to different places instead of always the same place.

[Rex Chan]

I agree with more actual company involvement and commentary. As to travel expenses, doesn't that come out of the magical budget of personal team member, private expenses? Though I do agree it would be cool if venues changed every couple of years (not that I've been to Weribee that often - only 3 years so far). More electrical power would be nice, and more space. I realise the tents cost money, but how about open air? Then its up to teams to provide shelter for the things they need to keep fry. Seems like how it works in the US anyway.

I have to say the current toilet arrangements are very good, as I used them a lot in 2010.

One thing I'd like is a bigger practice area. The current one is way too small, and cars always get close to the Armco. At FSUK2011, I saw haybales fencing off a patch of concrete, which means nothing to hit if you misjudge (we crashed in 2010, delaying our Enduro2 run).

Actually, the most important admin change FSAE-A should make is to the results system. They claimed full points weren't to be released until the next day (way too late - yet released maybe 30 mins later). They do realise that the award ceremony only tells teams who came top 3, and 20+ other teams have no idea what they came (mega disappointment + disbeleif when this was announced), after 1 year of hard work. And the actual results lack ALL details, compared with FSAE Michigan/California, FSUK, FSG, etc, etc. I'm not sure why we don't have all times and cones for all runs. They must have all the data, so why keep it secret + hold onto it? Otherwise, how can we compare ourselves to other teams and improve? Hell, how can we even compare ourselves to our own past teams? I don't even know which of our enduro runs counted to our overall score. How silly is that?

[Chris B]

true part of our trip price does come from personal funds but having said that, in order to keep the competition accessible to all of our members, we subsidise alot of the cost of going since as we all know undergrad engineers are normally fairly poor lol.

rex i saw your "moment," in the practise pen last year, that was what convinced us not to use the pen lol.

also a live scoreboard kinda thing updated every few hours would be amazing too.

[NickFavazzo]

The competition usually costs each team member around a grand, that will probably be more now due to flights (closer the xmas). The team organises the accommodation but we don't usually subsidise the individual cost of comp.

Live time/scoreboards would be epic, imagine an enduro with the lap times live, ok if it does not include off-course and cones.

I think they should provide a slightly larger tent, having the shelter is fair and in the scheme of things it doesn't cost a lot, especially considering the venue doesn't charge.

A larger practice area would be great, hay-bales to protect the cars would be awesome, cars push the limits to do some higher speed turns.

[MalcolmG]

I would like to propose that all teams who have a competition in their own country cease from complaining about the costs to go to comp http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I think I spent around $1300-1800 every year I was studying/doing FSAE to get to Aus - it wasn't ever easy to come up with the money but if you care about it, you find a way.

Back on topic, I'd agree with Rex regarding the points/results that are released, I always found it very frustrating that the best source of somewhat detailed results were photographs of posted scores from the comp. I also think historical results should remain on the website for future reference

[NickFavazzo]

I'm not complaining, just pointing out why Aus Comp will probably not roam around aus.

The FSAE-A website needs to have previous events on it, the things that disappear are always good to have. Especially detailed results, judge comments etc.

[Kevin Hayward]

My two main issues.

- Involve other engineering companies. At the end of the day we have a very large group of capable students looking for graduate employment. The Automotive industry cannot possibly accommodate all of them. With increased industry involvement it is likely costs to teams could be reduced. Why is the IEAust not involved with this competition?

- More consultation with universities (faculty advisors). The recent rule change in the middle of the year was ridiculous, and was implemented with no time for teams to change fundamental concepts. This is an educational event and not involving the educational institutions in the major changes to the competition is at best a waste of a good resource and at worst will end participation by a number of universities.


In the earlier years of the competition there was more broad involvement with the automotive industry (this meant more prizes such as the PBR brake prize). There was also more communication and consultation with Universities. For example Australia was the first competition to allow for wet weather tyres as a direct result of communication with participants, prior to that the comps just stopped in wet conditions.

Kev

[Chris B]

what mid year rule change was this that you speak of?

[Kevin Hayward]

The reallocation of points for the events. Check the Australian ammendment.

Kev

[Chris B]

oh yep, we saw those. i just saw "mid year rule change," and panicked a bit lol

[NickFavazzo]

Pretty big change, especially with the American formula, not too sure why they are reverting back to the old numbers either, how hard is it to have different numbers? Though We are not complaining with no.2

[oz_olly]

I agree 100% with Kev. I would love to see SAE-A collaborate with IEAUST. Like he said not all FSAE grads end up in the automotive industry and the skills acquired can make you a valuable engineer across multiple engineering industries. The comp is absolutely struggling for cash so why not diversify and get some of the mining engineering companies and their suppliers on board?

I would also like to see some industry involvement at the comp. We have just got home from Formula Student in the UK and they had some cool stuff like the Airbus team doing 30 minute slots on a practice track shooting teams cars at 1000 frames per second. We were able to do a braking run, two accel launches and a slalom. The film has been very interesting from the little investigation I have done so far.

I liked how the Aus comp used to have extra awards, I think it should be reintroduced but I suspect it requires some effort from volunteers on the committee to set it up and then judge. I'm sure by now there are enough FSAE alumni to help out with this sort of thing. At FS UK the overall winner got a tour of the Red Bull F1 factory on the following Monday. We could send a team to FPR or HRT or something like that I'm sure it would be a fairly unique and interesting prize to give away.

The other aspect is the live timing for dynamic events. This combined with good commentary would make the comp much better for your average spectator and also improve the experience for competitors. The use of Natsoft timing last year was very good. I liked being able to stand in the driver change area and see what times our guys were doing, it was just a shame no one else could see it.

On a more technical side I think it would be good to have teams do a dyno pull on the same dyno prior to design event. ADFA has a hub dyno... maybe they should take it the comp. I would also like to see CG height measurement station and yaw moment of inertia swing. The numbers could be written on your tech sticker along with over all mass. Tech inspection all day Thursday would be awesome too.

To finish off I have to echo the comments about the FSAE-A website. It used to have all the newsletters with Pat’s tech tips and Q&A along with past results. I would have thought an archive of results would be the bare minimum for the site.

I’m trying to get there as a volunteer this year and coaxing a few more Defence FSAE Alumni to get along as and help out.

Cheers

[Rex Chan]

Re: past results - I can't even get a link to the 2010 results anymore!?

For an engine guy, it would be cool to have a dyno session for every car (before design would make sure all cars are in a running condition for design, and weigh-in...). However, I fully acknowledge that FSAE is a handling comp, and thus suspension design is what makes you got fast - therefore, having CoG and yaw stuff would be VERY useful: for any teams that haven't/can't done it themselves, to compare against other unis, and for design judges to have more data when asking questions/giving marks.

Re: ADFAs hub dyno. If you bring it, I'm sure teams who are done for the day would love to use it. Although, if something broke, it would be hard to explain to the rest of your team what exactly you were hoping to achieve... maybe a post Sunday enduro dyno competition???

[Chris B]

besides bragging rights what use would a dyno at comp actually be? i mean like if you're needing a dyno tune while at comp you've got some issues to deal with.

accurate four wheel scales and CoG height measurements would be a more useful one, in my opinion, as it would give weight distribution and CoG position etc, which design judges and teams can both use to evaluate their packaging etc and it doesnt risk breaking anything.

just my personal opinion. oh and maybe a professional tire fitter or supplier tent (similar to the welders) so that if you have to swap a set of tires onto rims it can be done easily and correctly. or so if you have bulk punctures you can get new rubber etc.

[Fred G]

I agree, that if you were at comp needing dyno tune, then you have some issues.

If I remember correctly, at FSAE in Michigan, teams had a choice when they could do a dyno run. The smart teams run it after all the dynamic events were completed.

There was an industry sponsored prize given out for teams whom the dyno team considered displayed good tuning knowledge, technique and produced good results. We're not just shooting for horsepower here.

Again, four wheel scales were available at Michigan and industry sponsored award given out to teams that displayed good understanding of vehicle setup.

Again, several major tyre companies were at Michigan with their trucks fitted with tire fitting facilities and tyres available for purchase.

For the number of teams competiting vs facilities available, the Aus comp isn't doing too badly.

Maybe the tilt table could second as a COG measuring device with a few tweaks..

Fred

[Jon Oneill]

Ultimately, I think the Australian Comp needs a lot more interest & support from alumni team members. After being involved with this competition for a while, it seems that most teams just loose there alumni to the world, and never hear from them again.

It seems that FSG has the support of hundreds of alumni as volenteers at the event to help with the set up & planning. Who better to assist with event organisation than past team members who understand the needs & wants of the students. Alumni all work somewhere. Why not support the next generation of students by getting in your bosses ear and supporting the competition.

FSAE is a great concept, and the Australian teams are very successful on the world stage. It would be nice to see our competition reflect our engineering ability.

Calling all alumni, Help!

[NickFavazzo]

FSG seems like THE event to be at, If FSAE-A wants to make improvements, they could start with doing what FSG do. We have regular contact with our alumni, do many other teams? I imagine Eastern states teams may have more grads able to help with the planning and running of comp.

[oz_olly]

The main reason I propose dyno runs is that the data we have pulled off the FSG website has been very useful in making conceptual design decisions. We all know there are calibration and correction differences between dynos so having everyone use the same dyno would allow for interesting powertrain judging. I too agree that using a dyno to tune at the comp would mean you have very big issues to worry about and if you were worried about your car breaking on the dyno you should probably skip acceleration. I don't know if ADFA would be able to actually take theirs but it would be worth investigating if there was enough interest from teams and the powertrain design judges.

I agree that FSG seems to be the comp to aspire towards these days. If I was living in Melbourne I would definitely try to help with organisation. I still think we should somehow try to encourage SAE-A and IEASUT to collaborate some how and get more diverse industry involvement.

Cheers

[Moke]

I'm sure there will be a group of the Auckland alumni attending this year. I'm not yet sure if I'll be there though, but I'm going to try.

If a group of guys can make the 3 1/2hour flight then others can too, it's what you work for, the cash to have fun.

From helping out last year, I can tell you that it's the best way to see the cars. You get to sit out in the field and have a good look as the cars do their stuff. Plus if you add a bit of fun to it (such as dressing up as ghost busters or Mario) you hardly notice the work.

[Chris B]

firstly, at uq we don't have alot of contact with alumni, theres a couple of guys who still keep in touch but most we dont hear from. although most actually leave the team before graduating anyway.

with regards to improving the comp, i agree more industry involvement would be good but id hate for mining companies to get involved. yeah i know they have big cash to throw around but at my uni at least, everyone tries to force you into either mining or hypersonic research from the first day of first year. FSAE at my campus at least, is one of the last Sanctuary's for mech engg kids who want to engineer in a normal capacity, not down a mine shaft. surely they can find enough automotive related companies to get on board, NGK, Penrite, Bendix, Ferrodo, Century, etc just to name a few.

[Chris B]

also, is there a way of bringing these things to the attention of the event organisers? i mean we'd probs have to discuss it and come to more of a consensus on here about what is needed, desired, feasible and affordable, but if we could get a basic agreement is there some way of putting together a proposal of the "recommendations," per se and bring to the organisers attention? probably too late for this year's comp but nice an early next year's.

[NickFavazzo]

It should be the role of academic advisors, because after all we are all just students, In the past we have had people leave the team via graduation, the past few we have not had many grads, those who have left gave it in, kind of disjointing especially looking at the experience we have lost.

The Aus automotive industry is on its way down, to secure the comp we need some big backing. IMECH would be great.

[Chris B]

hahaha academic advisors, you make me laugh. sorry mate this isnt a go at you or anything and i agree now that you mention it, it should be their role. problem is that in the 2.5 years ive been involved in FSAE, our academic advisors (there have been two), have done nothing at all besides sign the occasional form. no advice in the slightest lol. its a mission just to track them down to sign stuff let alone get them to actually help with things.

so out of curiosity how much involvement do other teams advisors have? and what sort of stuff do they do to help out? (sorry i know this is slightly off topic).

they should get some media backing, plenty of money in the media, better exposure for potential sponsors, students, the universities,etc. everybody happy. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Big Bird]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris B:
also, is there a way of bringing these things to the attention of the event organisers? i mean we'd probs have to discuss it and come to more of a consensus on here about what is needed, desired, feasible and affordable, but if we could get a basic agreement is there some way of putting together a proposal of the "recommendations," per se and bring to the organisers attention? probably too late for this year's comp but nice an early next year's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been quietly watching this thread, and taking stock of some of the excellent suggestions put forth. SAE-A is very conscious of putting together the best comp they can within the constraints of the resources available to them. As has been noted, excess resources within the Oz auto industry are very hard to come by, be it money or manpower.

Some random notes:

Representation:
I've volunteered my services to help the new FSAE Event Organizer, Michela, organize the event this year. Part of this will include liaising with the various sponsors, decision-makers, key players etc. I am taking note of the suggestions on this thread, and will be putting forth feasible ideas to the organizing committee. (I'll also be raising the point-scoring changes as raised in another thread). I'm hesitant to make outlandish promises about what we can achieve, but will do my best.

Manpower:
Critical issue. If you believe FSAE is a good thing, (and I'd assume those reading these forums would think so), then volunteer your services. This is a huge event to organize, and the more active assistants the better the event will be.

Money:
#1: SAE subscription.
How many join the SAE simply for the event and never renew the subscription? For all the experience & life skills gained, and the employability head-start you get over non-FSAE graduates, you only want to spend $55? SAE-A is struggling, and there are questions to be answered about putting on such an expensive event when there is little loyalty from those who benefit the most.

#2: Alumni support - corporate:
Your company has benefited from your FSAE experience. Speak to your finance manager about a charitable donation.

#3: Alumni support - personal:
Imagine if, as a goodwill gesture, every FSAE-A alumni pitched in $10 a year towards the ongoing health of the event. This program has benefited a multitude of engineering students over the years, and such a small donation across the thousands of benefactors would take the Oz event to a higher level.

It is up to us, ladies and gents...

[NickFavazzo]

I'm glad to hear about that Geoff, I cannot say I have heard a lot about what is going on, I will speak to UWAM alumni to see if they donate/want to. I know in my experience on the team we have had past members at comp but it was more of an impulse thing than something planned, though I am sure I could get some help.

@Chris, Our academic supervisor takes interest in the team, he is quite high up in the uni department though so he is a busy man, He sits in on meetings now and then to check progress and help us on other issues (such as dealing with other university staff).

I recall there was a DVD made of professional comp footage, it was sold at cost and there were not enough sold to cover the initial outlay, maybe SAE could give us these little things at a normal market rate, I would sure buy one.

[Jon Oneill]

Geoff,

Awesome to hear you are getting involved with the planning this year.

I'll do my best to contact our team alumni, to try and get them involved in the event. I am unsure of the possibility of contribution, but we should definitely be able to find some additional support staff for the event.

Has anyone considered ringing in new team members, and getting them to assist at the event as volunteers. We're going to try and get a few to help this year, and i know there are a fair few teams with additional members at the event, looking for something to do. Why not sign up as volunteers and get as close to the action as possible.

As for the subscription fee to SAE, If you don't live in Melbourne, there seems to be very little that SAE provides to you as a member. Personally I have attended several Sydney based SAE events, but it gets very frustrating when everything seems to be in melbourne all the time. What about us, and everyone else in the country. I agree that the SAE event, and the competition is valuable and worth the $55, And I am confident that I will continue to support the event in the future. I also however understand why alumni don't continue as members after they graduate, perhaps a younger focus is required?

Couple all that with the fact that not all SAE student members end up in the automotive sector (I'd say hardly any do), the lack of alumni membership seems well explained. More events, get togethers, Networking opportunities could only help...

[Big Bird]

Thanks for the feedback thus far, both here and via PM. Fair and valid comments.

A professional industry organization such as the SAE is only as strong as its membership. So maybe some constructive feedback might be in order - what sort of benefits or events would you like to see in order to continue your SAE memberships? I trust we'll be sensible and respectful about this - no ridiculous wishlists or wild expectations. If the ideas presented are well reasoned and realistic, then they will be taken seriously.

I don't think this is too far off the original topic, and like it or not the membership issue has direct consequences on the quality of the event.

[moose]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JonJon:
Has anyone considered ringing in new team members, and getting them to assist at the event as volunteers. We're going to try and get a few to help this year, and i know there are a fair few teams with additional members at the event, looking for something to do. Why not sign up as volunteers and get as close to the action as possible.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are probably a few places that they can help, but it's very likely that there are safety/insurance concerns that would preclude them from working the "hot" areas.

There is a lot of responsibility/risk in having the team members with each car, but you really want people who are a bit more experienced working the track rather than a bunch of 18-19 yr old students (not that older folks don't do stupid things).

So many decisions are made in a split second, and having a student get hurt would be a major blow to the competition IMO.

-Matt

[Natalie Ajay]

Hi all,

This comment is probably more specifically aimed at you, Geoff.

I to this year went about getting some changes made to comp to improve the situation we;re in. After speaking to some committee members they have given me permission to write up a presentation to be given to the committee as consideration for event improvements. I haven't yet submitted it - which seems to be a good thing - so many other people clearly are on the same page as Monash Uni here.

My presentation was going to be written on behalf of the Vic teams (there should be members at RMIT, Melbourne and Swinny who are in the know regarding my preso) but it seems to me that this presentation is really an Australia wide team consensus.

The three improvements that I outlined in my presentation were:

<span class="ev_code_RED">1. Student committee to help run the event
2. more sponsor involvement (financially and at the event)
3. improvement of event location or if we stay at werribbee, improvement of facilities (ie: accommodation for interstate teams).</span>

Geoff, considering the two of us are already in discussions with the committee - are you able to contact me at natalie.ajay@monashmotorsport.com and we can maybe do this as one, instead of two people doing the same thing?

That way when I hand over my presentation, it can be on behalf of all (or most) australian and NZ teams, and we can have a more proactive, wholesome approach to improving FSAE-A for all of us.


I'm weary of posting my presentation on here as I feel it isn't the right time, and we need to have a structured approach to this, but in the meantime - Geoff can you please get in contact and we could maybe go about this together?

Also, does everyone for the most part agree to these three points above? I think it is a good head start, and once we have a student alumni group set up to help with the event, a lot of things like live timing, results and other improvements will flow on through the work that they do. I have already personally spoken to Holden and I know that they are willing to be more involved on a financial and graduate level with this competition - it is just that there isn't anyone from FSAE-A with the time or resources to manage the sponsorship relationships effectively. A student alumni group would mean that we could get more companies (not just automotive) involved and therefore increase career opportunities and hopefully help make the competition more affordable.

Thanks,

[Charlie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moose:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JonJon:
Has anyone considered ringing in new team members, and getting them to assist at the event as volunteers. We're going to try and get a few to help this year, and i know there are a fair few teams with additional members at the event, looking for something to do. Why not sign up as volunteers and get as close to the action as possible.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are probably a few places that they can help, but it's very likely that there are safety/insurance concerns that would preclude them from working the "hot" areas.

There is a lot of responsibility/risk in having the team members with each car, but you really want people who are a bit more experienced working the track rather than a bunch of 18-19 yr old students (not that older folks don't do stupid things).

So many decisions are made in a split second, and having a student get hurt would be a major blow to the competition IMO.

-Matt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are more than a 'few' places that student volunteers can help. There is always a massive need for volunteer help at these events, and annually there are inexperienced people who are part of the 'hot' areas. Standard procedure is to pair experienced track workers with inexperienced ones when possible.

I would encourage you not to discourage people from volunteering when you don't fully understand the situation http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Student volunteers are great help. Best to notify SAE as sooner rather than later though, because there is time needed to organize and inform volunteers. Walking up right before endurance will not have the same positive impact as inquiring on day 1.

[Jon Oneill]

UTS is completely in support of these 3 points Natalie.

It should be a fantastic starting point, and should lead to wider improvements in future years.

In regards to the student committee, are we thinking a representative from each team, or just whoever can help.

I'm very excited to see a change, and action being taken to put SAE-A back on the world map.

Primarily, my interest lies with supporter/spectator facilities & media coverage. If we increase the general knowledge of the competition, both in the industry as well as wider society we should see a natural increase in wider event support. This should result in major increases in SAE memberships, FSAE-A event support & individual team sponsorship. Surely car enthusiasts and clubs have an interest in what we do, so why not approach & include them as well.

Geoff, perhaps I should contact you personally regarding member activities & improvements after I have approached our alumni & current team members regarding the issue.

[Chris B]

yeah natalie for the most part the main three points you've outlined seem to be the core ones. especially as these sorts of things would benefit us as well.

with regards to any form of student comittee to help with the event, in order to ensure it remains impartial i feel that every participating uni should have the opportunity to supply a rep. (i say uni not team as uni's with elec and petrol cars would then at an advantage.)

[Kevin Hayward]

As an aside, how would people like to join a design report consortium?

My thoughts are that every team that signs on would submit their design report for the year at the same time they submit to the judging. They would be collected and a CD handed out to all participants after the event with all the collected reports.

this may help all teams gradually improve their approach to the event, and what sort of work is being done in Oz. Overall it should make the Australian teams slightly more competitive and the help bring up the design scores of some of the struggling teams.

Kev

[Natalie Ajay]

Hi again,

to Chris - I completely agree that all uni's have the opportunity to put forward a representative. If we were to have a committee of students there wouldn't be any point if not all student bodies could have a say if they wanted to.

to JonJon - I would suggest that the stuent group be hopefully made up of at least one person from each team, but at the end of the day the more hands on deck to help prepare the event the better, especially alumni.

Also the supporter/media coverage topic - I do have a slide in my presentation specifically on event awareness and sponsorship interaction with the students. I also highlight all the events that all of our teams have attended to increase publicity and awareness - all events which FSAE-A could have attended but chose not to. This slide isn't to have a stab at FSAE-A, but to illustrate to them that there is plenty of scope to expand their sponsor opportunities and publicity.

Will be interested to see what anyone else has to say in regards to my three main points - because if we are all basically in agreement then I think it would be worth me starting a petition to hand in along with the presentation.

Thanks!

[moose]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moose:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JonJon:
Has anyone considered ringing in new team members, and getting them to assist at the event as volunteers. We're going to try and get a few to help this year, and i know there are a fair few teams with additional members at the event, looking for something to do. Why not sign up as volunteers and get as close to the action as possible.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are probably a few places that they can help, but it's very likely that there are safety/insurance concerns that would preclude them from working the "hot" areas.

There is a lot of responsibility/risk in having the team members with each car, but you really want people who are a bit more experienced working the track rather than a bunch of 18-19 yr old students (not that older folks don't do stupid things).

So many decisions are made in a split second, and having a student get hurt would be a major blow to the competition IMO.

-Matt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are more than a 'few' places that student volunteers can help. There is always a massive need for volunteer help at these events, and annually there are inexperienced people who are part of the 'hot' areas. Standard procedure is to pair experienced track workers with inexperienced ones when possible.

I would encourage you not to discourage people from volunteering when you don't fully understand the situation http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Student volunteers are great help. Best to notify SAE as sooner rather than later though, because there is time needed to organize and inform volunteers. Walking up right before endurance will not have the same positive impact as inquiring on day 1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I didn't want to discourage anyone from volunteering, I've been doing it myself for a few years, and actively recruiting others to do the same. I think that anyone who is interested/able should head out to their nearest event to help out.

I've seen lots of inexperienced and experienced volunteers out on the track (and plenty of good work done by the inexperienced ones). There is always a shortage of hands and experienced ones, so getting new blood out there can do nothing but help.

While "few" might have been the wrong word, there are some roles that are more suited to non-students. Would be happy to take this discussion to a non-public forum / don't want to corrupt this discussion (will try to send you a quick message later about it).

Matt

[Michael Royce]

A couple of thoughts.

Yes, FSAE alums are always welcomed back as volunteers at any FSAE event, and a competition is an excellent place to get together with former team members and competitors who have been dispersed around the country or world.

Having current team members who are not directly or immediately involved in the competition, working at the event is also a good idea and a good source of extra "arms and legs" for the autocross and endurance events. It would have to be checked, but I suspect that the release waiver one signs as a team member is exactly the same waiver one signs as a volunteer. Here in the States, at an SCCA Solo (Autocross), when you compete as a driver, you also have to "work". That applies to everyone, even senior citizens like me!

With respect to this idea of a "student committee", while input and suggestions from team members are always welcome at any of the FSAE events, be a little careful.

Firstly, what would be the "remit" of this committee? Its purpose and structure would need to be properly defined and recognized by the organizers. Otherwise, it would just be a complaints forum, and the members would get disillusioned when very few of their suggestions were accepted by the organizers, others being deemed impractical or too expensive.

Secondly, being a member of a committee such as this requires a commitment, i.e. time. How many current team members have that extra time?

Thirdly, a representative from each team in the FSAE-A competition would mean a very large committee. Large means unwieldy.

My suggestion is to let Geoff and Natalie take things up with Robert Chadwick and the organizers, and work out the best way of getting the team members more involved.

Do keep up the commitment, because the FSAE-A competition was always very enjoyable, and Suzanne and I made many good friends there and have many fond memories of our trip down under. It would be a crying shame to loose it.

[Scott Wordley]

I agree with Michael Royce's comments. We should definitely be able to get more alumni involved if current teams made a bigger effort to contact and recruit their alumni in the lead up to the event.

Also Kev, I think the design report consortium is a great idea and I would be keen for Monash to be involved. Will talk with the team leaders and see what they think. Will definitely be interesting and helpful for most teams, much like seeing the presentation event winners in the overseas comps.

[Kirby]

I've often wondered if a Student 'Association' of Australian teams (recognised by the SAE-A) could be formed to attack some of the key issues that are getting discussed here and seem to pop up every year, additionally providing some structure of the teams underneath the SAE-A.:

-Representing ALL teams interests in a democratic and fair manner to the SAE-A
Note: I'm glad to see people like Natalie and Geoff in discussions with the SAE-A, but for teams not in Vic that sort of engagement with the SAE-A is not possible. Not that they aren't getting it, but every team would appreciate fair representation here.
-Management and distribution of common information to assist teams; "can we 'borrow'....","design consortium"
-Organisation of common events; after party, testing days etc.

To a sense some of this happens already, over email and the forums, however a formalised structure would further assist in achieving a working relationship between all Australian teams. For example: it's pretty fair that something be organised to take the 'unofficial' burden of RMIT organising the after party for the last few years.

This can all be achieved with a pretty simple structure of student member elected from every team that has an interest in FSAE-A (active, emerging, restart) with "board room" meetings once a year at comp. And remaining communication handled in the existing methods or through teleconferencing.

[Michela]

I have been keeping an eye on all your comments. The one I am in a position to address right now is the Volunteers. We would welcome all volunteers ( must be 18yrs old +) So please pass on the message. click on the following link for a registration Form - Return the completed form to formulasae@sae-a.com.au Registration Form (http://www.saea.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Officials-Registration-Form1.pdf)

Thanks

Michela Bartels
SAE-A