Multi-Teams

[Will M]

I noticed a new rule about combination teams, I guess in response to GFR.
It is clear that if University A and University B join to form a team they are formally one team now.

So now for a hypothetical situation
Imagine there was University A that had, for example, a strong engine research center.
But lacked any kind of vehicle design and dynamics background.
They might want to design an engine for FSAE but want to support more than one car.
So they work with Universities B, C and D.
University A designs one engine to be used by B, C and D.
B, C and D independently design FSAE cars to use the engine from A.
University A students would provide technical support at the race and would speak at B, C and D’s design events.

Assuming that the engine from University A was so good that this was desirable to schools B, C and D; would this be allowed?

As this has not been attempted as far as I know there probably is no answer.
Maybe a better question that can be answered is:
Do you feel that such an arrangement would be in line with the spirit of the competition?

(I am no longer on a FSAE team so I can’t ask the rules committee)

A4.2 Student Status
Note: Teams which are formed with members from two or more Universities are treated as a single team. A student at any University making up the team may compete at any event where the team participates. The multiple Universities are in effect treated as one University and all eligibility requirements

Thanks,
-William

[Racer-X]

The way I interpret the rule A, B, C, and D would all be a single team. My reasoning is team A would be part of every team, and any team that works with team A is now on the same team. Now you have teams A-B, A-C, and A-D all sharing students through team A and would thus be treated as team.

[Will M]

That is a reasonable interpretation.
Would you feel it would be in line with the spirit of the competition?
Or would it be an unfair advantage?
Again assuming it was an ideal engine for each team.

-William

[Racer-X]

I don't think it is "unfair" assuming every team has the opportunity to get together like that. That could happen right now if teams wanted. I do think that does take a lot of fun out of the competition as that team stands a good chance of winning multiple years. With that it waters down the victory because it is shared 4 ways between what would probably have been 4 top 15 teams on their own. It would also prevent members from getting to dink around with every part of the car, which I think is a lot fun.

[AndreasK]

Hi,

I don't see an issue in the design process itself, but in the competition. Its not allowed to be in more than one team. Even if a school wants to build a combustion and an electric vehicle and start with that at FSG (in that case FSC and FSE) that have to be two seperate teams that are not sharing any team members. Therefore its prohibited to present the design in the event (or driver, or business plan, or working on the car, or whatever) via by one same teammember.

My interpretation of your case would be that all the schools have to be one single team with only one car. And that would be no option.

[Bemo]

I guess it wouldn't be prohibited that the three teams use the engine which was designed by uni A. But as others already said a member from uni A can only speak for one team in the statics of a competition. So it would be necessary to "distribute" the students from uni A to the teams who are using the engine.

What Karlsruhe and Joanneum Graz are currently doing with AMG is a similar case I'd say. Although in this case it is not a university designing an engine but two teams are designing one with a partner from industry. But at competition it is clear that everybody can only be part of one team. They can't have all people who were involved in the development of the engine in the design event.

[Series One]

Why would you need anybody who was involved in the design of the engine at the design event?

Surely sourcing an engine from another university is no different to sourcing one from Honda or Yamaha. I have yet to see a representative from either of those manufacturers at a design event.

Just my thoughts.

[JulianH]

You don't need an engine guy at the design event but it helps you for sure.

Every drivetrain guy can present the desicion matrix why this engine was chosen but if someone can talk about the design of the engine that gives you some bonus points.

The guy who developed our electric motors was at least always busy in the design events http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Leibi]

Sorry for being this post a little bit off-topic...
@JulianH: I'd say you need an engine guy more than a drivetrain guy in the design event; from my experience there are more questions concerning the engine than the drivetrain and an engine guy has a better overview over the drivetrain than vice versa.

Regards,
Leibi

[Will M]

@Bemo
Yes. The students who design the engine at University A would each be on a separate team (B, C or D).
The teams share zero members but their members work together on the engine under a separate project.

The real goal would be to allow the students at University A to dig deeper into engine design than they otherwise would be able to.

-William

[JWard]

If A weren't FORMALLY supporting the other three teams at FSAE events and presenting in their presentations, I see no reason why class the relationship as a customer / supplier. Sure they are using another teams designed engine, but they are operating 'on race day' as indepedent teams. I think the only time you would consider them under the one team rule, would be regarding sharing Chassis and or suspension designs. Personally that's where the 'line' is drawn for me.