BBS Wheels

[LancerMotorsports07_Suresh]

Was anyone able to get a solidworks/CATIA drawing of the BBS 13'' 1-piece magnesium wheels. We plan to use it this year for our car but its really hard to find a 3D model. BBS USA does not have the 3D drawings, and BBS in Germany doesn't readily respond to emails. If anyone has modeled one in the past, or has a copy of one and is willing to let our team use it in our design, can you please let me know. FW07 would truly appreciate it.

Thanks

[B Hise]

we have the 13" x 6" ally wheel in ideas, which is probably what youre talking about.

Ill go see if our CAD guys are cool with exporting it. They spend alot of time modeling stuff to high detail and I would understand if they don't want to share. I'll PM you.

- Bryan

[LancerMotorsports07_Suresh]

Hey thanks I appreciate it. The ally and mag wheels shouldn't differ in their dimensions. Hopefully our CAD guys are cool with it. Thanks again.

[Jersey Tom]

Would be cool to have. If its exported to a parasolid it should be pretty easy for any CAD program to translate.

[B Hise]

OK if the guys are cool with it I'll post the model. When I post it I'll give the link so we dont have a 30 post long thread full of email addys that I wont take the time to send to.

- B

[Tony K]

So on the topic of BBS wheels, where are other teams purchasing these wheels? We're switching to one piece centerlocks that were donated to us, but we only have 6 are in need of 2 more so we can have a set of rain tires mounted since we're going to Detroit this year. I think the 2003 team purchased our 3-piece wheels directly from BBS, but are there any other decent options?

[LancerMotorsports07_Suresh]

Hey ya that's cool if you post it here. Again thanks a lot. We are going with the magnesium centerlocks for the first time as well. Probably going to buy 8 wheels. Were getting ours directly from BBS. I haven't been able to find any other options which have the type of wheels needed by these formula cars.

[Mike Cook]

I'm just going to say that the BBS wheels are absolutely amazing. I have used the keizers in the past and they are complete junk. There is no comparison. Also I think the bbs wheels are as light or lighter than the keizers. Furthermore, lots of weight can be saved with a centerlockin design over a 4 stud design.
The BBS are slightly more expensive.

[Steve Yao]

Would someone mind sending me the contact info they have for anyone at BBS?

We've been trying since mid summer to get specs and prices on the mag centerlock wheels. Emails and phone calls have not gotten us anywhere, so I am hoping the teams using the wheels can provide some solid contacts.

[Mike Cook]

Phone calls won't get you anywhere with those guys. Heres what you do. You call BBS-usa, have your creditcard info ready and say I want to order 8 wheels, either 0 offset or 4mm offset. They send you wheels. They don't want to deal with any questions.

Also, i'm not exactly sure what wheels your talking about because from what I have learned, is they either have a 3pc wheel, or a 1 pc forged aluminum centerlocking. No Mag wheels.

Also, BBS asked me not to give drawings out or anything, so I cant post our cad file. Sorry. Maybe if there is a specific dimension anyone needs I can help you out.

[TG]

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
Also, i'm not exactly sure what wheels your talking about because from what I have learned, is they either have a 3pc wheel, or a 1 pc forged aluminum centerlocking. No Mag wheels.

Forged Al? How much do those cost? The 1 pc BBS RE wheels are cast Mg and from my talks with BBS USA, we can get any offset that they currently have the molds for (so I'm pretty sure it's BBS USA casting the wheels for the US teams). The three piece wheels are cast Mg centers with spun Al rims with center lock or bolt pattern.

[Mike Cook]

Well, our RE wheels look like there aluminum. I'm pretty sure John said they were aluminum but maybe I'm wrong? Looking at this:

http://bbs-usa.com/index.php?id=321

I didn't see any wheels that are cast. I thought the wheels I have are the aluminum forged monobloc.

Either way, the only offsets he had available are 0 and 4mm. The three piece wheels have many more offsets available.

Mike

[Jersey Tom]

I talked to John once over the summer, briefly, but since then have had a hell of a time trying to get back in touch with him.

When we talked, he said for centerlock wheels either you can get the 1-piece in some size they stock, or a 3-piece in whatever you want. Said to email him a drawing of our wheel assembly.. did.. nothing back.. another email.. nothing back.. voicemail.. more calls.. you get the idea.

I'd be down for the 1-piece if its available in something that'd work. Zero offset. Anyone know what the drive pin pattern is? Ie 4x 100mm or 8x 100mm and what the diameter and depth of the holes are.

[LancerMotorsports07_Suresh]

I think you guys are talking about the same John that i've been talking with for the last 3 months. Either way they have 1 piece entirely mag wheels along with the aluminum. He is a hard person to get a hold of, but if you keep leaving emails he eventually gets back to you. He told us the same thing, send him our designs and he will see what he can do. But ya the mag wheels are about a 1-1.5 lb lighter than the aluminums. Centerlocks look like a good investment.

[Mike Cook]

Probably don't want to bother John much. The drive pin diameter is 3.75" and the hole size is 13.6mm. The center bore on the wheel is 2.25". The offsets are 4mm or 0mm. the wheel is 7.25lb.

wtf is head of impact?

[Jersey Tom]

Well. I don't want to bother him too much but I'd like to at least be able to talk to the guy so I can give him $1300-2600 for wheels.

[Tony K]

Yeah, that's where we're at... We need BBS wheels, have money that we would like to give BBS, but can't get a hold of anyone to exchange money for wheels. I know exactly what I want, and know they're pricey, so yeah. I'm very unimpressed.

It's actually looking quite unfortunate that we're using BBS wheels, and if I didn't already have 6 on hand, I'd probably have already gone with OZ. I spoke with Bryan from Trager Motorsport Group over the summer a few times, and he was more than helpful in recommending wheels for our application and I could always get a hold of him. And at $400 a wheel for 13 x 6 one piece centerlock mags, I can't say it's going to be worth it much longer to keep putting up with BBS's wonderful customer service.

[Sathersc]

We're looking at BBS too, but after the price quote of $310 each for 3-piece, I'm even asking the team with those CF wheels in Austria for quotes. I've found Zach at BBS is helpful, and actually passed my request onto engineers to see what sizing options I could get. It turns out we mistakenly designed for a wheel offset I don't think we can get so I'm definately stressing over that. If anyone knows a company who can pretty much pull any offset you want off, I'd really like to know about it. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Jersey Tom]

Dont suppose you have Zach's email?

[Sathersc]

PMed

[Steve Yao]

How many drive pockets/holes?
Center-lock cone angle?
Distance between hubface and cone?
Any chamfer or fillets on the hub-side of the center bore?
....basically all dimensions necessary to design hub and center-lock nut.



Originally posted by Mike Cook:
Probably don't want to bother John much. The drive pin diameter is 3.75" and the hole size is 13.6mm. The center bore on the wheel is 2.25". The offsets are 4mm or 0mm. the wheel is 7.25lb.

wtf is head of impact?

[Kwheels]

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
I'm just going to say that the BBS wheels are absolutely amazing. I have used the keizers in the past and they are complete junk. There is no comparison. Also I think the bbs wheels are as light or lighter than the keizers. Furthermore, lots of weight can be saved with a centerlockin design over a 4 stud design.
The BBS are slightly more expensive.


I have a difference in opinion. Our wheels are not junk. I believe them to have many great benefits for the F-SAE community both home and abroad. This is reflected by the number of cars we service each year. We wouldn't have over 30 titles world wide if we built a completely junk product. Give us a call & I will answered and explain any questions you may have. I will also guarantee we are lighter, much lighter then a BBS product. They do some good wheels but are not into the side of custom tailoring racing wheels at the needs of students. We offer center locks, pin drives & any other custom idea the team may need. We are readily available for any questions.


Wade Husiman
Huisman Racing Ent.
Keizer Racing Wheels inc.
712-737-3053
kaw@mtcnet.net
www.keizerwheels.com (http://www.keizerwheels.com)

[Jersey Tom]

I think one of the biggest concerns a lot of schools had when they ran Keizers (as we did in 05) was the quality control.

[Mike Cook]

Wade, I have spoke with you before and I will say that you offer good support for the FSAE community. However, every order we have had placed with Keizer has been screwed up. You have done your best to fix the problems and I appreciate that. However, I would prefer that the problems never had happen in the first place. I understand that mistakes happen, but as Tom mentioned, the QC at Keizer is less than ideal.

The BBS wheel is light, as light as the Keizer wheels I have. The wheel center on the Keizer does not impress me, specifically where the front is pocketed for the K and the back side has a corner. The Keizer wheels have way to much hardware holding them together. Finally, the 3pc wheels are notorious for leaking.

Every single Keizer wheel we own is bent. Period. The first day we got a new set last year we bent three. They were not bent when installing the tires. They were bent on track. Our car is about 500lb. Either our car is making some supernatural grip or the wheels aren't any good.

For 50$ more, I'll go with the bbs wheel.

[Jersey Tom]

For 50$ more, I'll go with the bbs wheel.

Agreed. I would say the 4-spoke Keizer center is also much less sexy than the BBS double 10-spoke.

[Sathersc]

I'd have to agree. BBS wheels are pretty, and the Keizers.... well they just aren't. I will probably have to go with the Keizers though, since BBS can't offer the same range of offset. If anyone knows where I can go to find out information on OZ wheels, or any other supplier, I'd really appreciate it.

[Tony K]

OZ Motorsport Wheels
Bryan Trager
Trager Motorsport Group
288 Gasoline Aly
Indianapolis, IN
317-244-0100