Carbon Fiber Wheel

[DJKO]

Hey guys. Hope you all are getting busy for next competition.

I am making carbon fiber wheels this year. If possible carbon rims and spokes. I'm finding it hard to get started on design since manufacturing is the problem.

If any of you guys have experience in this or have any suggestions, I appreciate it alot!

Thanks.

[DJKO]

Hey guys. Hope you all are getting busy for next competition.

I am making carbon fiber wheels this year. If possible carbon rims and spokes. I'm finding it hard to get started on design since manufacturing is the problem.

If any of you guys have experience in this or have any suggestions, I appreciate it alot!

Thanks.

[B Hise]

make a carbon fiber turbo instead

[absolutepressure]

Well, I don't want you to take the easy way out, but you can buy them here. http://hyperracing.com/browse.asp?id=830&classid=6&catid=435

I don't think you can do the spokes cf. But you can at least use those wheels as design guides.
Welcome, where are you from, and what facilities do you have? From what I understand, they are actually plastic with cf shreads in them, and they're injection molded. You'd need one of those.

[Bill Kunst]

I think he is refering to UTA styled wheels. That takes some serious minds and resources to pull off. They also used Al centers. As for the link in Absolutes post, those are a chopped carbon in a nylon 6/6 (or something very similar). I have bar ends made like this on my bike, they are light and very strong.

Bill

[VinceL]

TU Munich had nice carbon wheels this year. I believe they were one piece with aluminum inserts for the lug nuts.

Vince

[Chace]

I don't know of anyone making their own carbon wheels for competition. From a manufacturing standpoint it would be pretty difficult. I would probably start of by using a 3 piece wheel as a mold and copying the shell, then you can go about making the wheel center to your own specs.


+1 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">make a carbon fiber turbo instead </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Parker]

Look at the Carbon fiber motorcycle wheels. they are pretty strong and light and you should be able to find out a little about the manufacturing process.

[Parker]

Look at carbon fiber motorcycle wheels. you should be able to find out a little bit about how they are manufactured.

[DJKO]

Thanks guys.

We got the access to autoclave and massive supply of prepreg carbon fiber.

Maybe spokes are difficult. How safe/effective is the bonding carbon fiber compsites together? I'm afraid of difficulty in getting the rim out of mold if done in one piece. Is making rim in halves a viable option u reckon?

[SNasello]

Making the rim in havles would probably be your best bet. The mold would be simpler and overall process would be less of a headache. Unless you had some male molds CNCd. two male molds that bolt together at the center and the come apart to release the rim. i still think that doing it in halves would be the easiest and safest way of doing it first try though.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

consider a 3 piece rim, 2 halves and an aluminum center....remember you have to mount a tire to it, and making it separate would make that much easier. Then you have to seal it up too. I wouldnt go down to some shop and have the tires mounted unless they guarntee not to ruin your rims!

[Erich Ohlde]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chace:
I don't know of anyone making their own carbon wheels for competition. From a manufacturing standpoint it would be pretty difficult. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UTA

[RacingManiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tuccmasterflex:
TU Munich had nice carbon wheels this year. I believe they were one piece with aluminum inserts for the lug nuts.

Vince </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, its definitely doable......


TU Munich's full carbon wheel....
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2315954a.jpg

[TG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RacingManiac:
TU Munich's full carbon wheel....
http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/2315954a.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn, $$$. I'm not talking about the wheel though, that's probably reasonable in the cost. The expensive part is the brake caliper right behind it.

[Flexicoker]

Here's UTA's version. The carbon is all one peice, aluminum center.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Flexicoker/Formula%20SAE/IMG014.jpg

And here's a description I found in a previous post from our very own Timaaaay:

"For many years up until 2003 UTA used a 13x6 inch 7.6 lb wheel made my Monocoque. We were happy with this wheel, but it seems not enough people agreed since they went out of business. This forced us to look at other options. We looked at Keizer and many others, but we did not feel they met what we wanted. We decided to re-visit the carbon wheel that we showed off in 93 and 94 I believe. The wheel went through a complete re-design to make many design and appearance changes. Two years of my life designing, building molds, laying up wheels, the new version made it on the 2004 car. Of course a few of those wheels unintentionally became display models. UTA's 13x6 carbon fiber wheel is a two piece wheel. Outer shell is carbon and weighs 2 lbs. The center is aluminum and weighs 1.75 lbs including all the bolts, washers and nuts. The center piece is made by a CNC mill. The outer carbon shell is made with a 2 piece aluminum and a 2 piece tooling carbon mold. We saved half the weight over the aluminum ones we used previously. They tend to seal better than the aluminum. If that is not enough, they even look cool. Some other schools have made comments that they have lighter wheels since they us 10 inch wheels and I have even heard of other carbon fiber ones in England I believe that were said to be a little lighter. UTA has our reasons for using larger wheels. Also we tend to pull more lateral g's than some others and I like having a safety factor too."

[RacingManiac]

more European carbon wheels, thanks to the V2 Firenze's site....

Both Graz teams seems to use a carbon rim with BBS center....

Graz UAS: http://www.pcm.unifi.it/formula_student/ITA/IMMAGINI/20...e/pages/IMG_4964.htm (http://www.pcm.unifi.it/formula_student/ITA/IMMAGINI/2006/race/pages/IMG_4964.htm)

TU Graz: http://www.pcm.unifi.it/formula_student/ITA/IMMAGINI/20...e/pages/IMG_5030.htm (http://www.pcm.unifi.it/formula_student/ITA/IMMAGINI/2006/race/pages/IMG_5030.htm)

I believe Chalmers and a Portuguese school also runs carbon wheel with machined center....

[Chace]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jayhawk_electrical:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chace:
I don't know of anyone making their own carbon wheels for competition. From a manufacturing standpoint it would be pretty difficult. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UTA </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I guess now I know. If I was going to make them, I would go with a three piece. Much easier to manufacture. Having the wheels mounted after the wheel is assembled seems kinda sketchy, let me know how it goes and maybe I'll give it a go next year.

[Andycostin]

Maybe someone from Deakin would care to comment, they've got some full carbon wheels too if I remember correctlyhttp://www.deakin.edu.au/scitech/et/sae/images/Gallary_Images/gallery05.htm

[Chace]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andycostin:
Maybe someone from Deakin would care to comment, they've got some full carbon wheels too if I remember correctly http://www.deakin.edu.au/scitech/et/sae/images/Gallary_Images/gallery05.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, that's awesome

[Ashley Denmead]

Hi guys,

thanks for the into Andy, have been thinking about replying to the thread for a couple of days.

The pic that andy posted is of our old wheels. Since then we've created new ones that we raced with in Germany. I cant tell you too much about how they are made but they are made in one piece. These wheels are evolution 3 and its taken along time and lots of money to get this far.

Some pics can be found here:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q267/ajdenmea/goodwheel2.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q267/ajdenmea/wheels.jpg

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q267/ajdenmea/P1010078.jpg

cheers

Ash
Deakin Race Technologies


P.S We can make these wheels to sell if anybody is interested.

[DJKO]

Damn! How did you manage one piece full carbon fiber wheel?

[Andycostin]

No probs Ash,

They look even better than I remembered!

Hope you're getting well on your way to the comp.... Will have to catch up with you guys some stage soon, but prob a little busy at the moment.

[Marshall Grice]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Damn! How did you manage one piece full carbon fiber wheel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they call it Research and Development...

[Sathersc]

Purdy... how little do those weigh?

[Steve Yao]

Curious. Was an autoclave involved? how much pressure?

[Ashley Denmead]

1.7kg each

[Ashley Denmead]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marshall Grice:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Damn! How did you manage one piece full carbon fiber wheel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they call it Research and Development... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


"Applied Research and Development" Actually http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[The guru of guru's]

I think the real question is how did one person manage to make a set of 5 within a week before leaving for formula student germany.

[Samo Simonian]

Hey guys,

Our team has used carbon rims since 2003, we've gained quite a bit of
experience with composites through the years and the rims are getting
neater every time. We only use Resin Transfer Moulding, no prepregs.
Here's a list of what was used in which year.
2003: rim 1 pc carbon center aluminum 13" Hoosier
2004: rim 1 pc carbon center aluminum 10" LeCont
2005: rim 2 pc carbon center aluminum 10" LeCont
2006: rim 1 pc carbon center aluminum 10" LeCont (center partly forms rim)
2007: ?
all custom designed and produced.

Our website is currently being renewed and therefore a bit incomplete.
I'll try to scavenge some nice pics from the old servers and post them.
Also try to get some weights of them.

If you think of doing custom (carbon or alu?) rims and centers, hold in
mind; If they have to be sealed don't underestimate it. Know your tire,
how should it be put on, might be so stiff that you ruin rims on a
conventional machine (or have to make them absurdly thick). Thermal effects,
brakes tend to get hot from time to time. Stiffness of the assembly. And
much more. Most importantly: with the options you have, what will you
actually gain and is it worth the time and energy you spend on it?

Keep you informed,

Samo Simonian

[Tomer]

Hey guys,

I was wondering how do you mount the tires on a one piece carbon fiber rim??? and what kind of testing did you perform???

Thanks Tomer

[DJKO]

Hey, great input. I was looking to perhaps bond aluminium center with carbon rim instead of bolting or rivetting them. I know lots of Formula One is built by bonding metal and composite together. However, I can't find much information on the net except some abstract to articles or papers.

Does anybody know something about that?

[Jersey Tom]

I still think there's better things to be working on. You're going to have to do fairly extensive bond strength testing, both static and fatigue.

[Tony K]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jersey Tom:
I still think there's better things to be working on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, like a carbon fiber turbocharger...

Seriously, $190 a wheel, and I'll sell you the Kodiak's off our '06 car... they're light, sexy, and Canadian approved.

[Bill Kunst]

Does anyone find it confusing to have the same topic twice in current discussions? Hence the reason why the second post should never have been replied to.