passing in endurance, among other things

[1975BMW2002]

I've never done this FSAE competition thing. I'm under the impression that we are not supposed to pass in the endurance competition unless we come upon a car, and it is signaled to pull into the 'passee' lane. However, in the flag section it says under yellow flag don't pass unless told to. this sugge4st to me that under other conditions you can pass without being told to. so what's the deal with this.

I've also heard-on this board-that there is rarely passing anyways, so it won't matter. Is this true? I can imagine a scenario where cars have drivers of different abilities in the autocross and the endurance, so wind up running significantly faster or slower than the rest of the heat.

One more question. Do most cars finish the endurance without incident(such as spinning, leaving the course, knocking over several cones, etc.)

Okay I lied, one last question... how may cars typically last all the way through the entire event? more than half?

Thanks for any insight. I'm looking forward to seeing you all in a few days.

Bill Elliott
Maryland is coming back

[1975BMW2002]

I've never done this FSAE competition thing. I'm under the impression that we are not supposed to pass in the endurance competition unless we come upon a car, and it is signaled to pull into the 'passee' lane. However, in the flag section it says under yellow flag don't pass unless told to. this sugge4st to me that under other conditions you can pass without being told to. so what's the deal with this.

I've also heard-on this board-that there is rarely passing anyways, so it won't matter. Is this true? I can imagine a scenario where cars have drivers of different abilities in the autocross and the endurance, so wind up running significantly faster or slower than the rest of the heat.

One more question. Do most cars finish the endurance without incident(such as spinning, leaving the course, knocking over several cones, etc.)

Okay I lied, one last question... how may cars typically last all the way through the entire event? more than half?

Thanks for any insight. I'm looking forward to seeing you all in a few days.

Bill Elliott
Maryland is coming back

[Denny Trimble]

1) Only pass when the car in front of you is flagged into the passing lane. Only!

2) Passing does happen regularly. Cars overheat, teams screw up in autocross, etc, causing speed differences on the course.

3) Most cars that finish don't spin off course.

4) Last year I think 33 or so teams finished endurance, out of 140 entrants (USA event).

[Charlie]

1) Don't read so far into the rules, you don't pass under yellow unless directed only implies that you don't pass under yellow unless directed. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

2) Passing is hit-or-miss. Last year our first driver passed nobody (and was not passed). I only passed 2 cars. We were never passed and had a fast car (3rd overall time). But I have seen situations where lots of passing went on.

4) It was 30-something last year, but only about 100 cars started. In FSAE-A 7 cars of 21 finished the first enduro, but attrition was much better the second time around.

Seems that if it is hot out, lots of cars fail from cooling related issues. In 2000 it was hot and attrition was terrible.

[Angry Joe]

Unfortunately many drivers out there have never raced anything before, let alone in wheel-to-wheel conditions, so passing is heavily restricted.

I would worry more about finishing the endurance. Unless your car has at least a month of serious testing your chances are slim. And, of course, it is always something stupid and insignificant that gets you. (For the record, I don't expect Lehigh to finish the endurance this year...)

[MikeWaggoner at UW]

If there was passing, it wouldn't be Formula SAE. It'd be Nascar SAE or Gokart SAE.

[Michael Jones]

What everyone says - no sense discussing passing in the abstract. You'll see it when you get there and be told specifically what is and is not kosher at the driver's meeting. That's your guide. Generally, you can figure +/- 1-2 passes per driver, depending on your and other driver skill, and the conditions of the cars out there.

Agreed that endurance consumes cars, often for the most random reasons. Pay close attention to your ability to shut down and restart at driver change - if you can't restart, you're out.

We were really worried about this last year since we had current draw issues all year, and the car was stalling out every hard braking situation, I believe due to loose electrical connections in the fuel system. We had to crank the starter every lap. I figured we'd go in for driver change and lose it right there, but we somehow managed to finish. We were very, very lucky. And surprisingly fast, even losing 2-3 seconds a stall.

Try to make sure the car can do 22km of 90% effort driving beforehand. We're doing that this weekend, and have already selected drivers based on about 20-30km of practice last weekend. It's pretty solid so far, but you never know. :P I'll believe we'll finish when I see it happen, not a moment sooner.

[BStoney]

NASCAR SAE?!?!?!?! What is this world coming to????? Nascar stays on the ovals..these cars would never get on an oval.

[Denny Trimble]

Paul VanValkenberg proposed an oval event at FSAE. It would certainly mix things up a bit.

[MikeWaggoner at UW]

I don't think they'd allow ovals just for liability reasons. Ovals=high speed=high speed failures=liability risk.

BTW, I just made my comment to lament the lack of passing in modern F1, not suggest that we go Nascar or Kart-style.

[Angry Joe]

The day Formula SAE has an oval is the day I shove a screwdriver through my eyeball. But I guess since we have a solid rear axle we're halfway there.

As far as finishing the endurance, in two weeks we have yet to see the car run for more than about four minutes. Go us.

[Charlie]

Mr. V-V proposed an oval event in additon to the other events I beleive. it certainly would be a cool challenge to set up a car for both.

An oval wouldn't have to be any higher speed than the current enduro.

[Michael Jones]

Low-speed ovals. Oy. Excuse me while I fall asleep.

To really shake things up, I figure define new front, side and rear crush zone rules and make it BumperCar SAE. That would be fun.