UK Hillclimb's - Who's done them?

[Mike Hart]

This is not an official idea from our team, but I was wondering how many of the UK teams have successfully done runs at places like Shelsey Walsh or Prescott? There are a few meetings in and around UK and Germany comps and it would be pretty good publicity for both Formula Student and our teams, so although I know there are issues in that the cars aren't legal to run competitively up the hills due to the feet being ahead of the axle line, does anyone know how difficult it would be to perhaps run a few demo runs with some cars?

If there are enough teams interested, would it be worth getting the IMechE involved? They're keen to get Formula Student more publicity, so something like this could be a really good way of raising the profile of the comp, especially if we all took our cars out in June before Silverstone. I know it's a bit of an effort to go to non competition events, but it could be a bit of a laugh and a good learning experience given the number of small capacity classes that run at these events.

[Mike Hart]

This is not an official idea from our team, but I was wondering how many of the UK teams have successfully done runs at places like Shelsey Walsh or Prescott? There are a few meetings in and around UK and Germany comps and it would be pretty good publicity for both Formula Student and our teams, so although I know there are issues in that the cars aren't legal to run competitively up the hills due to the feet being ahead of the axle line, does anyone know how difficult it would be to perhaps run a few demo runs with some cars?

If there are enough teams interested, would it be worth getting the IMechE involved? They're keen to get Formula Student more publicity, so something like this could be a really good way of raising the profile of the comp, especially if we all took our cars out in June before Silverstone. I know it's a bit of an effort to go to non competition events, but it could be a bit of a laugh and a good learning experience given the number of small capacity classes that run at these events.

[Chris_S]

We've done Shelsley with a few other teams (Brunel, Cardiff and others). Was merely a demonstration event, as the cars arn't MSA legal. However, the scruiterneers were very impressed with the quality of the cars and would of bene happy to let us compete in the 600 class.Many of the spectators were also impressed and likes to see that students were building cars to such a high standard.
http://www.shelsley-walsh.co.uk/2006_20060715.htm

Only problem with hillclimbs is the high speed, espiecially at shelsley as you exit the last corner up the hill and over the finishing line. Then again, many of the hillclimb cars arn't exactly safe either with many lacking roll cages and some that seemed to be lashed together.

Its a shame that goodwood is the same weekend as Formula Student, as it would be a good event to showcase the cars.

[Ianb]

Although its slightly off topic, but I suggested to the imeche about a day at Bruntingthorpe, where the teams tried setting the fastest Sprint time on the Track. Not heard anything back.

So it may be an idea for any teams who wants to come, to run a similar event like the baltic open, but do it as a non organised event(for cost reasons) and the fastest team just gets bragging rights. Probably best just after FSG so that the most teams can come.

[Mike Hart]

Some kind of Baltic open event would be a good laugh. As long as we stick to some kind of time trial event then I don't see there being any issues with safety IMO.

The reason I suggested a Hillcimb was purely from an exposure point of view as obviously you get far more spectators from a varied background. It'd also be a hell of a lot of fun to blast up the hill :P I can see what you mean about the final straight....although I did manage to get our car to the top of 5th at Rednall kart circuit and it was actually still impressively stable!

As another idea....perhaps we could do something with Dunlop like doing some demo autocross at one of the 'Great and British' race weekend events. I'm sure we've got enough cones between us to make some sort of course in a carpark at Silverstone or Brands or somewhere. It's the kind of thing sponsors, the IMechE and our Uni's would love I imagine as it's a prime opportunity to do a bit of PR and for us....a bit of a laugh!

[ben]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike hart:

As another idea....perhaps we could do something with Dunlop like doing some demo autocross at one of the 'Great and British' race weekend events. I'm sure we've got enough cones between us to make some sort of course in a carpark at Silverstone or Brands or somewhere. It's the kind of thing sponsors, the IMechE and our Uni's would love I imagine as it's a prime opportunity to do a bit of PR and for us....a bit of a laugh! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Le Mans Series is at Silverstone in September - that might be an idea - I'll have a think.

Ben

[JR @ CFS]

Baltic Open is run like a competition i.e. safety is top priority.

I think a hillclimb is all well and good for publicity, but think of the publicity if one of the cars went off and into a tree? The cars are designed for low speed tight tracks, I think that's what they should stick to.

But, some good suggestions there! Now I'm based in the UK it would be great to go see.

[Mike Hart]

Saftey is important yes, although it is motorsport remember :P I'd be happy to strap myself in for a hillclimb but admittedly, if you put a complete amateur up the hill it would be a little sketchy. Most of the cars are just as safe as the actual hillcimbers though....and in some cases safer!

[JaredC]

Aside from the obvious sponsor and team exposure (which our sponsors loved), we found there were a few other advantages.

I fully believe our third placing in autocross at FSAE-A last year was due to our involvement in hillclimbs. It's a competitive atmosphere, it's a single lap dash with no warmups and plenty of pressure. Perfect practice for autocross.

It was also good to get out and run the car and give everyone some experience - eg making sure we were fueled up, had CO2 for the pneumatics (forgot this once), brakes were bled (forgot this once), batteries charged (forgotten a few times), all plugs were plugged in and all nuts/bolts tightened and we had our spot in line (missed this a few times). We also got to practice emergency repairs when an oil slick went unnoticed and we ended up with some suspension damage.

You want to make sure your drivers are up to it though. We had 2 quite experienced drivers who both handled it very well. Our local hillclimb track is also fairly tight (our max speed was ~130kph downhill - top of 3rd) and our car handled it quite well.

You also want to make sure that as fun and exciting as it is to go racing, you don't let it distract you too much from FSAE. Last year we were quite successful with hillclimbs, but we paid for it in FSAE and ended up having to run a 2nd year car.

[Lyds]

We've been doing demo runs since 2004. We've also been in loads of talks with MSA people about doing an FS class which is how you get round the fact that certain areas of the car (roll hoop, front axle centreline etc) dont meet the regs. They said that if they consistently got 10+ teams to attend then they would consider it. But in the last few years when we have tried to arrange groups of teams to do it we have often been the only ones there. I know there was a decent turn out at Shelsley in 2006 but normally its been us and swansea. If you can get enough people invovled then its definitely worth it because its good publicity for FS and the unis. Also, I'd agree with mike that a lot of FS cars are better built and turned out than some of the hill climb cars you see!!

Lyds

[Nik Garrett]

Cambridge would certainly be interested in hillclimb events in future. We haven't done any yet (only in our second year so hasn't really been on the agenda yet!) but now that we've found our feet a bit more we'd be interested in taking part - from both a publicity and an experience point of view it can only be a good thing. If anyone gets anything organised then please give us a shout.

Cheers,
Nik

[James Morris]

We're be up doing Shelsley again. I missed out last time we went as I had to work. But from what Iv heard it was a bit nuts, something along the lines off being on the limiter in 6th gear, that's about 105MPH with our gearing.

As for safety, I think that the big problem with formula student cars is when they hit something or get hit. So i cant see a problem with it being a time trial course. Back in 2003 the team managed to roll the car at 90MPH doing some cost down tests at Llandow circuit with the following results...2 weeks before the comp!

http://siracing.co.uk/gallery/2003/index.html

Speaking to the guys who made the car, it was well dodgey, a wet lay carbon tub that was far to small, rod ends in bending all over the shot and some dodgey steer by wire 4 wheels steering system. But the driver walked away with only a bruised hand/wrist and that's due to not using arm restraints...personally I think he was very lucky!

James Morris
Chief Engineer & welder supreme
Swansea Metropolitan University
www.siracing.co.uk (http://www.siracing.co.uk)

[Christopher Catto]

as for safety one has to remember that the hillclimb drivers are the likes of Allan Staniforth and Simon McBeath, who are reasonably experienced or willing to take it as a personal hobby.

most unis have some good drivers (from FF or karting etc) but even if most are likely to sign whatever they see in front of them, their families are probably going to make a big fuss to the Uni if anything happens to their son/daughter.

The cars are safe in a "mechanical engineering" kind of sense but any light built 200kg car hitting something at more than 40mph is likely to hurt, especially when most parts are built for stiffness.

Still, there should be the chance for well funded teams to enter hillclimbs at least to get more exposure. Trouble is, FSAE has been running for 15+ years now and although performance in improving, I doubt build quality has beacause many cars I have seen (or even the ones I've been involved in) are not the sort of car I would build if I had more time or budget. Students and safety don't always go hand in hand.

I think there should be more autocross done for the older cars to stop universities dismantling or otherwise cannibalising old cars. I know a very popular uni which has allowed the above dismantling to happen, and it's rather sad really.