Engine Modelling Consortium

[Agent4573]

I called up a few places about getting various engines reverse engineered for FSAE. One of the most reasonable places was East Coast Metrology up by Boston. I talked to the guy for a little bit about what we needed and he said he could do a touch scan of engines, and give us IGES files for anywhere between $500-1000 per engine, with a better rate if we do all the engines at the same time. This will include accurate points/planes for all mounting locations, exhaust/intake ports, sprockets, etc, with lower resolution on all the tins and non critical areas. Right now, 13 schools have shown interest, depending on cost, for 6 different engines, including one for a cannondale 432, and I'm still not sure if that was a joke or not.

I was thinking that we could set up a data base with all the engine surface data and charge a flat rate for a team to download an engine. That way if you change engines in the future, you can pay the flat rate again and get a different engine. If we go with the ratio of interested teams right now, and the low side price we could probably charge around $200 per download. Any axtra money earned will be put into an account and used for getting different engines modelled in the future. Also, just like the tire testing consortium, the more teams that sign up for this, the lower the price will be per download.

Right now the teams that have shown early interest have been:
Rutgers University
Universidad Simón BolÃ*var
University of New Brunswick
Universidad Central de Venezuela
University of Texas, Austin
University British Columbia
Colorado University
University of Birmingham UK
Carnegie Melon
Louisiana State University
McGill
University of South Florida
Miami University
Case Western Reserve
Dartmouth
Queensland University of Technology

With the following engines:
Honda f4i
Honda 600rr
Kawasaki 2004 ZX6-rr
Yamaha 2001 R6
Yamaha 2004 R6
Yamaha YZF-600R
and i'm still not sure if this is a joke, a cannondale 432.

If your school would be interested in this please post below so I can get an updated interest sheet and everyone can get a more accurate price estimate.


*Edit: He also said that the price included the post-processing, so the iges files will be surface files, and not the huge, bulky point clouds someone was talking about before....

[Agent4573]

I called up a few places about getting various engines reverse engineered for FSAE. One of the most reasonable places was East Coast Metrology up by Boston. I talked to the guy for a little bit about what we needed and he said he could do a touch scan of engines, and give us IGES files for anywhere between $500-1000 per engine, with a better rate if we do all the engines at the same time. This will include accurate points/planes for all mounting locations, exhaust/intake ports, sprockets, etc, with lower resolution on all the tins and non critical areas. Right now, 13 schools have shown interest, depending on cost, for 6 different engines, including one for a cannondale 432, and I'm still not sure if that was a joke or not.

I was thinking that we could set up a data base with all the engine surface data and charge a flat rate for a team to download an engine. That way if you change engines in the future, you can pay the flat rate again and get a different engine. If we go with the ratio of interested teams right now, and the low side price we could probably charge around $200 per download. Any axtra money earned will be put into an account and used for getting different engines modelled in the future. Also, just like the tire testing consortium, the more teams that sign up for this, the lower the price will be per download.

Right now the teams that have shown early interest have been:
Rutgers University
Universidad Simón BolÃ*var
University of New Brunswick
Universidad Central de Venezuela
University of Texas, Austin
University British Columbia
Colorado University
University of Birmingham UK
Carnegie Melon
Louisiana State University
McGill
University of South Florida
Miami University
Case Western Reserve
Dartmouth
Queensland University of Technology

With the following engines:
Honda f4i
Honda 600rr
Kawasaki 2004 ZX6-rr
Yamaha 2001 R6
Yamaha 2004 R6
Yamaha YZF-600R
and i'm still not sure if this is a joke, a cannondale 432.

If your school would be interested in this please post below so I can get an updated interest sheet and everyone can get a more accurate price estimate.


*Edit: He also said that the price included the post-processing, so the iges files will be surface files, and not the huge, bulky point clouds someone was talking about before....

[Rear]

Please add Case Western Reserve University, our first choice is an F4i

[Erick Scarpone]

Were still on for the r6 universidad central de venezuela.
Just a info you might need were in venezuela, so we would need to be able to pay in credit card. Please have that in mind. Thanks!!

[Captain Redbeard]

Please add Dartmouth College to the list. We are interested in the R6 ( I think we actually have a 1999 model.) We would also be willing to provide our current R6 for the measurments (we are only an hour and a half from Boston.) E-mail me if you need to coordinate with us. Thanks for setting this up!

-Redbeard

[Agent4573]

UCV, don't worry about paying with credit card, I'm sure we'll figure something out when this thing gets to that stage.

Capt.: We're not at the stage yet of collecting the various engines to get them tested, but your on the list and I'll definately keep you in mind when we get to that stage. Thanks.

[Fred R.]

Wayne State U. is interested, what year is the 600RR?

[Matt Gignac]

Thing is, I'm pretty sure most of the teams showing interest so far are probably all looking for F4i models. Maybe it would make more sense for these teams to get together to get this engine done, another group for r6's, another for 600rr, etc. And if someone REALLY wants a Cannondale 432 model, well it'll probably be a bit more expensive for them.

On that note, where are all the teams with yzf-600r's?

Matt Gignac
McGill Racing Team

[Micko..]

Hi Agent4573,

Queensland University of Technology would be keen for a model of the Yamaha R6, althoug i have to sort out if the 04' is the same as the 03' but i'm pretty sure they are.

i like the idea but to what tolerance is the final product, ie could you take intake patterns straight from the cad or would it just be a packaging thing, we have intake patterns but there are some other things i would be interested in. would you be doing it with or without a sump? if with out would it get the internal parts (oil pickups, pressure regs etc)?

thanks for organising this

ps how long befor you kick off?

cheers

[Agent4573]

Fred R: University Simon Bolivar was interested in the 600RR but they didn't give a year, what year do you have?


Matt: Thats definately a possibility, but if all the teams interested in an F4i get together right now, they will pay a about 100 dollars a peice for the engine model. So far McGill is the only one interested in the yzf600r, so mcgill stands to pay about 1000 dollars for thier model. If your ok with that then i say go ahead and start forming small groups. I'm doing this so everyone has an equal chance at getting thier engines modelled, even teams with small budgets.


Miko: When I talked to the guy he said that things like the intake,exhaust and important stuff like that would be done very accurately. I'll call him again and see if he meant just the center points of all of that, or if he will do the patterns that accurately also. I'm sure if we tell him we need the patterns done, he will be able to do them. Things like the clutch cover, alternator cover, etc will be accurate to within a few mm's but should probably only be used for packaging. You also asked about if it would be done with a sump on or not. It was said before and I agree that it would probably be best to do this without an oilpan on the engine because that is one hell of a reference plane. As for the internal parts, it probably won't include them because everyone seems to run something different internally in thier engines oiling system, and it would probably be a pain to go in and delete all the stock parts if they are getting modelled in there.

I'd like to wait and see if a few more people sign up first before we kick off, because the more people that sign up initially the cheaper we can set the price, where as if only 10 people sign up initially those 10 teams have to cover all the overhead.

[Agent4573]

Would any other teams like to sign up? I think im gonna give the guy a call and get a finalized price.

[Ian McMurdo]

How about the idea of having teams "join" for say $200, and at that point they can download whatever engines are in the database. Money brought in from new teams joining would be used to model additional engine models.

[Fred R.]

the 2003 RR

[Micko..]

Hi guys,

so what is the go with this, did it go ahead or did it fall over. if it went ahead we will buy a model if not we shall get one else where.

cheers

[Matt N]

Just in case the R6 guys were wondering:

99-02 engine cases are externally identical
03-05 engine cases are externally identical

99-02 and 03-05 engine cases are NOT identical

[TG]

Hmm, well if you guys get IGES expect the model to be at least a gig if you have a good resolution to the model. I just finished scanning in the block, crankcase, strator cover, clutch cover head, and cam cover to our engine. The block alone was 850 megs, including internal features in IGES. If you are going to get a reverse engineered engine model, I'd suggest getting it in binary *.stl format. Those files are only 30-60 megs. Once Solidworks converts it to part files, they're 40-100 meg files. I have a nice computer and it just creeps along when I have the engine model loaded. It crashed when I tried to open a single IGES file and Solidworks is a pretty stable program. Just letting you guys know.

[Jose Robledo]

Hey!! you can count the Polytechnic University of Puerto Rico in for the f4i engine model!! Just tell us where to sign!! ja! ja!

[Erick Scarpone]

What happen with this I still think is a great Idea....any updates?

[AcuraImport]

University of Central Florida is interested in the 600RR. How is this progressing?

[ad]

The University of Wollongong is interested in a CBR600 F4 (carbi version) 1999 model.

Likewise im also interested in finding out how this is progressing.

[ad]

Just a follow up. Does anyone have any news on progress with the engine scans?

[Philip Gush]

I know this is mega old now, but Loughborough is looking for a solid model of a CBR600RR. The engine we have is a 2005 model does anyone know where we might be able to find a solid model?

Thanks
Phil
Loughborough

[PSURacing]

the same goes for us we have an 04 600rr which may or may not be the same