Warning: Never use Chlorinated Solvents!!!

[PBnG]

Heated chlorinated solvents release phosgene and HCL gas. I will never stock or purchase this solvent again. Every trace of it has been removed from our stock and the flammables cabinet will be labeled as a reminder. I recommend that every team seriously consider the dangers that chlorinated solvents pose.

As most teams are amid chassis construction this time of the year, I believe this is a relevant safety concern.

Here is a link to the article: <a href="http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm" target="_blank">http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm (http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm)</a>

[exFSAE]

That's pretty wild. Though it may be a little overkill to get rid of ALL your brake cleaner. It's perfectly safe for the most part.

If the article is accurate (a big if), it sounds like it gets really bad when exposed to heat and Argon, aka welding.

Moral of the story, don't have it in your welding area.. which I wouldn't anyway. Ethyl and isopropyl alcohols work great for cleaning things to be welded...

[PBnG]

Non-chlorinated brake cleaner is readily available and works well. I believe it is more popular than its chlorinated variant. I am sure most companies would allow unused bottles of chlorinated solvent to be exchanged for non-chlorinated types due to the possible safety hazard!

[coastertrav]

I believe I read this on honda-tech at the beginning of the summer, and it really opened my eyes. It isn't that someone would be careless or do anything like this on purpose, but most newer members (and myself before I read up on it) have no idea that they could be doing something potentially dangerous by hitting a part with a certain cleaner.

Afterwards I went out to the shop and checked all our labels, and while the new stuff we use from Safety Kleen is non chlorinated I found a few older cans of brake cleaner that I got rid of. I also mentioned a few times at our earlier meetings to really check out and read the warning labels on what we are using, because you never really know what reaction a few harsh chemicals will have when combined or introduced to heat.

[Hector]

After reading the article I just can't justify keeping any of this stuff around, no matter how much it cost to purchase. It was unanimously decided to ban chlorinated cleaners from our shop.

I may be a bit of a safety freak, but it's just not worth ruining the fun of FSAE if someone was hurt for unnecessary reasons. Someone always likes to argue why it's never "that bad" (*cough* exFSAE *cough*), but as I've mentioned before, all it takes is the wrong person with the wrong upset mommy to sue anyone and everyone related to this great engineering competition, and shut things down forever.

/would you be willing to risk the person you love most, whether it be family member, girlfriend, child, or friend over something as trivial as a few dollars worth of brake clean, a fire suit, or safe driving practices?

[exFSAE]

Almost everything in a FSAE shop is inherently dangerous. Fuels, acetylene bottles, pressurized air tanks, machine tools, you name it. You can, in theory, blow up a whole shop with an acetylene bottle. The solution isn't to never use one ever again.. it's to just not be completely out to lunch when using one and you'll never have a safety issue.

I've just never heard of this before, nor was I aware there were non-chlorinated brake cleaners. Good to know, though.

The biggest safety hazards IMO are overconfidence, being overworked, tired, and inexperienced. Wish more people paid attention to those..

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

Originally posted by exFSAE:
If the article is accurate (a big if), it sounds like it gets really bad when exposed to heat and Argon, aka welding.


So when somebody is welding, and you sneak up behind them and spray brake cleaner on the weld and it erupts in a giant ball of flame, that could potentially be dangerous?

[coastertrav]

Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:


So when somebody is welding, and you sneak up behind them and spray brake cleaner on the weld and it erupts in a giant ball of flame, that could potentially be dangerous?

Just make sure you use the non chlorinated kind, that way you only singe half your welder's hair and burn off an eye brow rather than do that and poison him.

A welder who is afraid of his head catching on fire is a careful welder. Helps keep him on his toes.

[PBnG]

The decomposition of tetrachloroethylene into phosgene requires oxygen. Argon is an inert gas (for the most part) and it's presence has little bearing on the reaction. Heat and oxygen are the only things required for said decomposition.

[Adambomb]

Someone else showed me this a while ago. My experience is that the non-chlorinated brake cleaner doesn't work nearly as well as the chlorinated stuff in terms of cleaning parts and evaporating quickly. In fact, when buying brake cleaner, I avoid "non-chlorinated" like the plague, and seek out the stuff that says "not for sale in CA." But then again, I live dangerously.

My solution? Well, we have plenty of other "dangerous" chemicals that, at least for welding prep, work just as well if not better. Just use something else. However, as far as safety goes, it might not be a bad idea to make up some safety labels, maybe just print up some mailing labels that say "do not use for welding prep" to stick on all the brake cleaner cans.

Just my thoughts...

[Adambomb]

OK, after some more thought, I generally prefer any product that says "not for sale in CA." The fun police haven't banned it here yet!

[Wesley]

Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by exFSAE:
If the article is accurate (a big if), it sounds like it gets really bad when exposed to heat and Argon, aka welding.


So when somebody is welding, and you sneak up behind them and spray brake cleaner on the weld and it erupts in a giant ball of flame, that could potentially be dangerous? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it was Non-Chlorinated. Cause I haven't died yet.