looking into FSAE

[Nathan M.]

hello. my name is nathan and i saw a local technical school had built one of these cars at the recent autocross in Salina Kansas. I was wondering if I had to be on some sort of team or a school to get into these cars. I also was wondering if the whole chassis was designed by each team or if there is some sort of basic plans that are followed then modified depending on the powerplant. If i would be allowed I would like to look into building one of these challenge cars myslef and racing in the series. It would probably include a few of my friends as we all have our strong points and racing alone is no fun, but we are not a "team" of any sort and i dont know your rules.

thank you for your input
Nathan

[Nathan M.]

hello. my name is nathan and i saw a local technical school had built one of these cars at the recent autocross in Salina Kansas. I was wondering if I had to be on some sort of team or a school to get into these cars. I also was wondering if the whole chassis was designed by each team or if there is some sort of basic plans that are followed then modified depending on the powerplant. If i would be allowed I would like to look into building one of these challenge cars myslef and racing in the series. It would probably include a few of my friends as we all have our strong points and racing alone is no fun, but we are not a "team" of any sort and i dont know your rules.

thank you for your input
Nathan

[the weldmeister]

It's always nice to see genuine interest in racing!

Nathan, you need to be a student at an engineering college, and a student member of the SAE to participate. Go to www.sae.org (http://www.sae.org) and download the rule book. It contains all the rules of the competition.

Most teams design the chassis completely by themselves, and some even design their own brake calipers, shocks, even the engine!

If you're not in any engineering college, then you probably won't be allowed to participate in the FSAE series, but that doesn't mean you and your friends can't go and build your own race car. You should visit any of the FSAE competitions closest to you, have a look at the cars, talk to the teams, and gain as much knowledge about race cars as you can. Apart from that, there are many good books on designing and building your own car. search the forums for a list of books.

[Nathan M.]

so there is no set plans you have to follow for the chassis or a book i can buy that will give plans to follow. I am not an engineer and I dont think even with reading design book i could actually design my own full chassis with suspension and steering. sorry for all the questions, but i am really interested. also can i get the fsae rulebook from somewhere off here and does it cost anything?

[KU_Racing]

Nathan, here is a link to the FSAE rule book:

http://students.sae.org/competitions/formulaseries/rules/rules.pdf

It is free to download, and you can print it or whatever you need to do. I am not sure what help that book will be for you. I also wouldnt advise building a car to FSAE specs, since you cant compete in the series. Cars in this genre are much more fun when they arent limited by the FSAE rules, which are designed to make the cars a challenge to design and also to keep the speeds of the cars down.

As far as chassis plans go, there really arent any books, at least that I know of, that have even basic plans for a formula SAE car. You might want to do a little research.. Maybe something like a super 7 is more up your alley? 7's are very similar to SAE cars on a larger scale, and there are several very good books that detail how to design and build one. There are also several companies out there that produce kits that let you build one based on a Miata or whatever.

If you have any questions, shoot me an email at fcvapor05@gmail.com. I am always happy to help out someone interested in the sport.

[Rex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">you need to be a student at an engineering college </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, you can be a student of any college, not necessarily engineering - as long as you're seeking a degree of some sort you're eligible.

I'm not even sure that your college or university has to have an engineering program. I think that's required to form an SAE student chapter, but I'm not sure that a SAE student chapter is required to form a FSAE team.

[Kurt Bilinski]

You don't list where you are, but if you're interested in building a sports car from scratch, check out these forums:
http://locostusa.com/forums/index.php

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/index.php

[Nathan M.]

while i am currently attending college, i am finishing my junior year right now. I also do not want to do it through the college as i know we would have to jump through too many hoops and there would be students that i would not want involved trying to get in. Id rather just build it with a bunch of friends and go racing. another reason i came to you guys and not locost or kimini (never heard of it) is that i dont want a streetable vehicle. I would like to build my own formula or other style race car. I now know that i would not be eligible to enter into your competitions, but would still like to make a FSAE style car. Also you said that the rules limit the performance of the car. While a few rules do, most of the rules i read seem to be designed to make sure the vehicle is safe more than anything, and i know even in their "restricted" form those are a very quick car and sure whooped me on the autocross track.

[ScottW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">hello. my name is nathan and i saw a local technical school had built one of these cars at the recent autocross in Salina Kansas. I was wondering if I had to be on some sort of team or a school to get into these cars. I also was wondering if the whole chassis was designed by each team or if there is some sort of basic plans that are followed then modified depending on the powerplant. If i would be allowed I would like to look into building one of these challenge cars myslef and racing in the series. It would probably include a few of my friends as we all have our strong points and racing alone is no fun, but we are not a "team" of any sort and i dont know your rules.

thank you for your input
Nathan </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was Wichita State University's car, not a technical school's.

[Kurt Bilinski]

You definitely need to check out the self-built car sites. Also, check out my book in my sig. My website has a list of books, and websites you need to be a part of. As far as not wanting a streetable vehicle, it'sa non issue. It just means suspension points are in different places and that you don't have lights or wipers. Regardless, you need to start reading - a lot. Check the list of books on my site for starters. What you are describing (building cars with your friends) is exactly what my book's about. If you don't want to buy it, okay, but you're going to need to read suspension design books, regardless.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nathan M.:
while i am currently attending college, i am finishing my junior year right now. I also do not want to do it through the college as i know we would have to jump through too many hoops and there would be students that i would not want involved trying to get in. Id rather just build it with a bunch of friends and go racing. another reason i came to you guys and not locost or kimini (never heard of it) is that i dont want a streetable vehicle. I would like to build my own formula or other style race car. I now know that i would not be eligible to enter into your competitions, but would still like to make a FSAE style car. Also you said that the rules limit the performance of the car. While a few rules do, most of the rules i read seem to be designed to make sure the vehicle is safe more than anything, and i know even in their "restricted" form those are a very quick car and sure whooped me on the autocross track. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Lexusteck]

Nathan you might alos check with the local SCCA contact (I think Rocky Entriken will do) and build a car for the SCCA class in Solo II. The cars are legal in all SCCA events and dont have to be backed by a university. Also contact Kansas University (or WSU, OU, K State, or UM Rolla), all have teams locally. Or contact me at Lexusteck@aol.com
The car you watched at Salina may have been the Kansas 06 car.
here is the Salina report

http://www.salinascca.org/Newsletters/writeline-apr2007.pdf

[Nathan M.]

another question that popped into my head was where do you get the parts. I know i can go out and buy all of the tubing for the frame and modify some shock mounts and stuff, but what do the teams used for axles front and rear. Is there some piece that you have to use or something? The only one ive seen in person had a chain gear brake on the rear and I didnt look at the front brakes, but I would think adapting any car brakes would be to large. also what is used for the steering setup? sorry about all of the questions, but Im not sure i want to go and buy a bunch of books if im not completely sure I want to do this yet.

thanks
nathan

[VFR750R]

Do you build your own or buy...the answer is yes. The truth is FSAE cars are so UNregulated that pretty much anything goes. I would say most teams make their own brake rotors and buy calipers and master cylinders. Most teams make their own spindles, hubs, uprights, a-arms. Most teams also run independent rear suspension and use taylor engineering tripods (a version of a CV joint) although teams have successfully used universal joints as well. Axles are really half shafts and teams have them made or make them in a machine shop themselves. I don't want to discourage you but a top of the line FSAE car has like 20,000 man hours. It's a real project. But, you can build a car that's almost as fast with a lot of cost and time reducing design decisions. Such as solid rear axle; that eliminates the diff, half shafts, cv joints and you can get great sized solid axles from ATV's. The engine is a no brainer...what ever you can get your hands on, but most here would choose a 4 cylinder something, given you would be autocrossing and not FSAEing with a restrictor. Keep the stock fuel injection and possibly most of the stock exhaust and you'd be 20hp up on the best FSAE car.

If your not busy the competition is this wed-sat in Michigan, and or after comp there will be thousands of pictures posted on here. You can start by looking at the pictures of completed cars and figuring out piece by piece what 'you' would do to save time money. I would also look to Formula Fords or Formula 500's. Thier slightly bigger but maybe you could use some of their parts like uprights a-arms brakes ect. to whatever frame you come up with.

[Nathan M.]

another question is where do you guys get your powerplants? Do you order brand new engines from motorcycle manufacturers or is there some place that you can buy wrecked bikes or something to get the parts from.

[Kurt Bilinski]

Dude, start reading the forums, here and the ones I listed. Some teams buy new engines and some buy used sportbike engines from - motorcycle recycling yards.

Also, you're going about this backwards. If you want to do SCCA autocross, start with the rule book (yes, more reading) and determine which class you want to enter. Go to events and check out the competition. Ask yourself what you're going to do different to beat them.