Just a question regarding "B5.8 Driver’s Leg Protection"

[Freddie]

New question here, regarding some clarification on B5.8 in the rules. I quote:
B5.8.1 To keep the driver’s legs away from moving or sharp components, all moving suspension and steering components, and other sharp edges inside the cockpit between the front roll hoop and a vertical plane 100 mm (4 inches) rearward of the pedals, must be shielded with a shield made of a solid material. Moving components include, but are not limited to springs, shock absorbers, rocker arms, antiroll/sway bars, steering racks and steering column CV joints.

The word "solid" bugs me; should this be interpreted as "non-porous" or as "rigid"? If it's non-porous, that rules out ... sponges, I guess. If it's rigid, that's a whole other matter. I searched the forum, and found a thread (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/12110311331?r=12110311331#12110311331), but I can't really find a clear answer there either. What Mark Zhai presents, as being the answer he got, doesn't make it any less vague to me. "Cover it up" ... yes, but with what kind of material?

How are you doing it? We're thinking of a super-simple rubber/silicone mold if that's allowed, otherwise it's a thin steel or polymer plate of some sort.

[Freddie]

New question here, regarding some clarification on B5.8 in the rules. I quote:
B5.8.1 To keep the driver’s legs away from moving or sharp components, all moving suspension and steering components, and other sharp edges inside the cockpit between the front roll hoop and a vertical plane 100 mm (4 inches) rearward of the pedals, must be shielded with a shield made of a solid material. Moving components include, but are not limited to springs, shock absorbers, rocker arms, antiroll/sway bars, steering racks and steering column CV joints.

The word "solid" bugs me; should this be interpreted as "non-porous" or as "rigid"? If it's non-porous, that rules out ... sponges, I guess. If it's rigid, that's a whole other matter. I searched the forum, and found a thread (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/12110311331?r=12110311331#12110311331), but I can't really find a clear answer there either. What Mark Zhai presents, as being the answer he got, doesn't make it any less vague to me. "Cover it up" ... yes, but with what kind of material?

How are you doing it? We're thinking of a super-simple rubber/silicone mold if that's allowed, otherwise it's a thin steel or polymer plate of some sort.

[Trevor]

I would be surprised if they meant it in any way other than rigid (but at what amount of deflection at what load is acceptable? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif)

[Bemo]

Hi Fredrik,

I was a scrutineer at FS Austria last year. So I have quite some experience but that doesn't mean my opinion is official.
In Austria we would only accept rigid materials as safety shields to moving parts. That includes steel or aluminium plates. Also carbon shields are acceptable. But something soft like silicon wouldn't be accepted by me.
But if you want to be sure send an official rules question to the rules commitee of the competition you're planning to take part at.

[Freddie]

Thanks for your answer Trevor, and it seems like you're correct. Sometimes ... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I found this page in the FAQs (http://forums.sae.org/access/dispatch.cgi/fsae_pf/docProfile/100213/d20091217205804/No/B.5.8%20Drivers%20Leg%20Protection), and I think it answer all our questions, at least at the moment. It seems like rubber would be sufficient at most of our locations. Although; maybe this would benefit from further specification.

Bemo: Thanks for answering, with us being a first year team every tip is important to us. I don't know if we will participate in FS Austria, but we'll try to find a solution that works with both regulations. Also, I will email FSUK rules committee (if everything goes as planned we're going to Silverstone) about this and hopefully post the response here.

[Michael Royce]

Freddie,
I am glad someone has found the FAQ's. Even though many of them were originally written 5 or 6 years ago, most are still applicable. The vast majority were actual questions that teams had sent in and the answers the Rules Committee gave them at that time.

The FAQ you found on Leg Protection has 9 questions, all slightly different on the same basic topic, and their answers.

In many cases, where the Rule is a little vague, go to the intent of the Rule. This is the instruction I give scrutineers who work at events where I officiate.

I encourage teams to vist the FAQ's before they send in a question to their event organizers. The link is under "Rules" on the Formula Student web site, and it can be found through the official FSAE web site, although the latter is not easy to find. If you go to:
h t t p://students.sae.org/competitions/formulaseries/
and then the Forum, you should be able to get there.

By using the FAQ's, it will cut down a lot on many of the questions the organizers have to answer. Most of those who answer these questions have full time jobs, many of them putting in 50-60 hours a week in their "paying" job, plus having a family. The US usually has between 300 and 400 questions per year. I have not counted how many we have each year for Formula Student, but I know the numbering system is up to about 1200! Ulf, Tobias and Frank must have a significant number at FSG too. So any use of the FAQ's is much appreciated.

[Freddie]

Michael,

The FAQs are great, maybe they should be more promoted in order to make people read there before emailing questions?

Just one thing about the clarification; I'm slightly sceptical about saying "use common sense" or something along those lines. Many times, we search for clarification because we're unsure about whether our common sense is in line with the judges common sense. I'm more of a fan of "this is illegal, if we haven't mentioned it it is legal" (or the opposite, writing what is legal and banning everything not mentioned) style of writing rules. And isn't there an english saying along the lines of "the thing about common sense, is that it is neither common nor sensible" ...?

[Bemo]

Freddie, the problem is that the rules should give you as much design freedom as possible. It's a very thin line between only using "common sense" and take away all design freedom.

In this case for example it should be quite clear. The issue is to protect the driver from MOVING parts. If the shield is made from something soft like silicon it will propably be possible to push the sheet against the moving part and it will propably get damaged by the moving part. In many cases the intent of a rule is pretty clear and if you are honest to yourself it is usually quite clear if you are fulfilling this intent.

If not there are the FAQs and the rules committee.

[Freddie]

Bemo, that's definately a problem. While I'd like the rules to be as clear as possible, I really don't want them to restrict the freedom of design which makes this so fun to do as a student.

As I said, I contacted the judges to get a clarification whether a soft mold (silicone/rubber/latex) would be considered sufficient at FSUK, and I got this answer from Michael Royce:
"...In short, while other events may insist the solid also means rigid, that is not the interpretation we will use at Formula Student in the UK. You may use a rubber or silicone boot over the steering column joints IF it provides the required protection."

Just to be clear; the part in question is the covering of our steering column joints. I now realize that I actually never wrote that in the first post ...

Our steering rack (hopefully, that's the right word, my english isn't as good as I want it to be sometimes) will be covered by a metal structure of some sort, since the cover might be used as a stepping plate if our driver needs to exit in a rush.

Thanks for your help in this matter, and I hope that someone else might find the information useful!

[Michael Royce]

Freddie,
Yes. In your case a rigid shield over a steering rack is probably the right way to go. As well as preventing damage if a driver steps on it, one needs to stop anything getting into any exposed teeth on a rack. On the other hand, a flexible rubber boot can often do a very good job at the outer end of a steering rack. Much depends on the individual design.

When writing the Rules, we try to give you as much design flexibility as possible, but occasionally we do ask you to use what is between your ears! After all, you are supposed to be engineers and will have to move into the big, bad world in the next year or two. At least we hope so. That is where decisions you make will effect more than your friends on the team.