What is the status of your vehicle?

[GSXR05K]

Which phase is your vehicle in for the upcoming events: FSAE and FSAE-W?

We are due to have rolling chassis this weekend.

Thanks, Aaron
fsae.sdsmt.edu

[nickerss]

We're goin to FSAE.

We've been rolling since Dec 19th or so...hopefully driving under its own power for the first time this or next weekend. Still got a ways to go on bodywork, seat, basically everything not absolutely necessary for the car to drive.

This is after not having the car done until approx May 10th last year.

[Biggy72]

We're going to FSAE West

We're shooting for a driving car by April 1st, but you couldn't tell by looking at the car right now. The next few weeks should be interesting.

[John Stimpson]

Kettering is going to Detroit.

We're still in the thinking phase.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

no go on a car this year....
I will be racing the dyno setup I am working on, so watch out

[afroney]

Finished chassis on the table... Sub components being manufacutred. Engine being spec'ed. Aero Package prototypes undergoing testing.

Yeah... It could be another one of those last minute years for us. Last year, we were working on the car up to the night before we left for Detroit.

[Dave K]

MTU shooting for a car around the second week of April, but that could be sketchy....

[SpdRcr]

frame 99% complete (need 2 more members added), seat is done, front suspension has all its parts on a shelf minus uprights, shocks are dynoed, engine intake almost done, dyno a few days of solid work from being ready, competition motor on its way back from getting worked on, aero testing in progress, body started, drivetrain is finishing diff housing, covers, and bearing blocks this weekend, conrols has parts on the shelf waiting to be installed...i think that covers most of it for us (UNH Precision Racing)

[Kyle Walther]

Originally posted by afroney:
Finished chassis on the table... Sub components being manufacutred. Engine being spec'ed. Aero Package prototypes undergoing testing.


Aero Package I like the sound of that.
are you planning to run it in fsae or are you developing it for scca?

[Mike Flitcraft]

From what I've been told, rolling in a week is the goal.

[Sathersc]

We're aiming rolling chassis March 1st, and we look like we're on track to make it.

Mike, what's the deal with everyone sleeping in on Saturday? We were on our way to check out the shop, but apparently we're the only team motivated enough for Saturday mornings. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[kwancho]

Was supposed to be rolling a month ago, rolling in a month if we're good, more probably April 1st. Gah.

[afroney]

[/QUOTE]
Aero Package I like the sound of that.
are you planning to run it in fsae or are you developing it for scca?[/QUOTE]

The Aero Package is a tossup right now. Our Tech Director doesn't really like the idea, and many teams have had trouble justifying an Aero package to the judges. Basically, we need hard data. Since i'm the team business major, i'm going to stay out of that argument.

I drove the car with the first prototype front and rear wing. There was a noticable difference going into hard corners @ 45mph. I remember my neck being sore for 2 nights after driving the thing. Mind you, the front wing was held on by conduit and duct tape. But again, subjective testing from the buisness major is not hard data...

[Kyle Walther]

Originally posted by afroney:
The Aero Package is a tossup right now. Our Tech Director doesn't really like the idea, and many teams have had trouble justifying an Aero package to the judges.

it's almost a requirement now in SCCA with the top 7 cars at nationals all winged.

[skillet]

Originally posted by afroney:
The Aero Package is a tossup right now. Our Tech Director doesn't really like the idea, and many teams have had trouble justifying an Aero package to the judges.
what does that have to with SCCA?

[Chris Allbee]

I think what kyle is trying to say is that the wings will make your car fast on course. It comes down to your goals and team's desires, but a quick glance at the points break down will show you where most of the points are allocated in the competition.

[Kyle Walther]

really my point was since ISU does some SCCA autocrossing they should continiue to look into wings if they want to stay competitive in something besides FSAE. Some poeple like to race the cars they slave over more than once or twice.

[Big Poppa]

SVSU looking to make the first drive during spring break the week of march 4th. As of right now rolling chassis with complete drivetrain and suspension. Complete frame steel/carbon panels/paint weighed in 63 lbs this year!! and it looks pretty sweet.

[afroney]

Originally posted by Kyle Walther:
really my point was since ISU does some SCCA autocrossing they should continiue to look into wings if they want to stay competitive in something besides FSAE. Some poeple like to race the cars they slave over more than once or twice.

Exactly. We did 7th in autocross and 3rd in endurance without an aero package, but got blown out of the water at SCCA Nationals. Our driver mentioned that the Nationals course was very large, where an aero package would have helped. However, you don't get a whole lot of speed on any FSAE events, so justifying the aero package is tough

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

We are thinking of buying this, we are about 99% sure on it, just trying to figure out how to mount the 5 point harness to it....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte...em=260085768894&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=260085768894&rd=1)

[Hammock]

This is straight out of the 2007 Rules...

"The Formula SAE ® Series competitions challenge teams of university undergraduate and graduate students to conceive, design, fabricate and compete with small, formula style, autocross racing cars....The intended sales market is the nonprofessional weekend autocross racer. Therefore, the car must have very high performance in terms of its acceleration, braking, and handling qualities."

How is it that cars with wings dominate Topeka, but not Formula SAE, yet the rules want us to build a car that can win at Topeka? It comes down to a team's decision on if they want to satisfy the rules and build a car capable of winning SCCA events, or play their odds and hope for slow and tight autocross and endurance events. Sorry for posting this under this topic, just had to share.

[Aaron Bailey]

Cal Poly SLO is going to Topeka this year and no SAE competition. We are developing an aero package which should be on the car by next weekend. That, fuel injection, testing, and designing for '08 is our status at the moment.

[skillet]

originally posted by Hammock

This is straight out of the 2007 Rules...

"The Formula SAE ® Series competitions challenge teams of university undergraduate and graduate students to conceive, design, fabricate and compete with small, formula style, autocross racing cars....The intended sales market is the nonprofessional weekend autocross racer. Therefore, the car must have very high performance in terms of its acceleration, braking, and handling qualities."

Bitter?
No where in the rules does it say consult your local SCCA event for typical course dimensions. If you look in the rules theres a table of contents and sure enough there are sections (5.6.3 and 5.7.4) which list a range of track dimensions for the FSAE event. Im sure its in the interest of safety to keep speeds down in our series. If you still want to whine make your wheelbase and track adjustable http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[VFR750R]

Originally posted by Hammock:

How is it that cars with wings dominate Topeka, but not Formula SAE, yet the rules want us to build a car that can win at Topeka? It comes down to a team's decision on if they want to satisfy the rules and build a car capable of winning SCCA events, or play their odds and hope for slow and tight autocross and endurance events. Sorry for posting this under this topic, just had to share.

Havn't we all heard this before. Seriously, everybody gets the same rule book, and course dimensions havn't changed for 15 years. Everybody has a different opinion on what a competitive car for FSAE looks like, but noone here thinks a SCCA fastest lap of the day car will do well at a FSAE event.

For some reason, everybody focuses on the only two sentences in the whole rule book that are non descript. "Intended sales market is the nonprofessional weekend autocross racer" Guess what, where does it say the class, or if it has to set fastest time of the day at Topeka? It is an engineering design project with an imaginary consumer market, it's not real life.

Anyone who cries about their FSAE car not being competitive at SCCA events, and wants FSAE rules changed is a wiener. Don't build a SCCA hot rod without planning on losing the FSAE event to a team that builds an f'in FSAE car!

[Kyle Walther]

honestly i think you can do both. and kudos to a team that does.

[VFR750R]

I agree, build an FSAE car and take it autocrossing. No doubt you'll have a blast regardless of who you run against or if your in a class by yourself. Better yet, call other FSAE teams that are close to the event and challenge them to come out.

UTA is a perfect example of double-duty cars and bringing out other FSAE teams.

In my previous post I in no way meant to discourage autocrossing these cars.

[Aaron Bailey]

Here is the first challenge for every FSAE team to qualify and show up to Topeka. And any CA schools, lets start showing up to Cal Speedway, the Cal Poly's need some competition. I would love to see a huge FSAE field at Topeka. Any schools up for the challenge?

[Kenny T Cornett]

Our car is coming along nicely. We've moved from drunken rants about stuff to actually scribbling on napkins.

The fire has messed us up something bad...

[Hammock]

Thanks for your blunt replies. I find it disconcerting to dedicate so many resources to an imaginary class. Perhaps the reality is that FSAE must be imaginary to fulfill its purpose safely.

Though I won't accept this, I will recognize that it is the current mindset of the FSAE community, and would like to propose a challenge of my own. An unofficial cup to go to the team that places highest in FSAE and SCCA Nationals combined. How about add the scores together. For Nationals, first place is 1000 pts, second place 900 pts, 800 pts, and so on.

On a similar note, I feel that a reasonable goal for those of us that do attend Topeka, is to dethrone the A-Mods as the fastest cars there. Perhaps a couple years off yet, I do see this as a great challenge, but not totally unreasonable.

Again, thanks for opening my eyes to the fact that this is all imaginary, very motivating. Perhaps if I didn't eat, sleep, and breathe race cars this would drive me away.

Also, I would like to say that a much better discussion of this matter has been carried out at:

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/825607348/m/72410757731/p/6

I would request that further discussion of this topic be carried out there, I apologize for the interruption. On with the better subject of car updates!!

[Rellis]

midwest teams how about Iowa auto cross march 18th

bring sticky tires

http://www.dmvrscca.org/soloschd.htm

[Kyle Walther]

Originally posted by Hammock:

Though I won't accept this, I will recognize that it is the current mindset of the FSAE community, and would like to propose a challenge of my own. An unofficial cup to go to the team that places highest in FSAE and SCCA Nationals combined. How about add the scores together. For Nationals, first place is 1000 pts, second place 900 pts, 800 pts, and so on.



Sweet!! i think we win then!!
2nd at nationals - 900
8th at West - 750
Where's our prize? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

but on the subject matter.. our goal for running car is March 11. hopefully we will be able to bring the 07 car to the Midwest FSAE challenge. we did this last year and it help us bench mark the new car against some very fast competition.

[Chris Allbee]

Your prize, should you choose to accept it (and even if you don't), is to spend all of your waking hours working on a car to improve those finishes. Good luck and enjoy.

[Neil S]

Ryan,

Thats the same weekend as the Salina Region Mid-Div Formula SAE Challenge:

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/96410293831

[conekilr]

Ya Rolla, you better show up to midwest challenge this year.

[Rellis]

Originally posted by Neil S:
Ryan,

Thats the same weekend as the Salina Region Mid-Div Formula SAE Challenge:

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/96410293831

Crap I realized this earlier today


As the aero/body guy for ISU i can tell you we are developing wings whether or not they make it to MI is up in the air but id guess they make it to topeka

[John Stimpson]

Wow... If y'all are really as far along as you say, you'll have lots of testing time!

...Hopefully we are not "testing" at competition like usual...

[Neil S]

Yeah right, Rocky scheduled that over St. Pats weekend. We can't possibly leave town when there are actually girls (that don't weigh more than an FSAE car) in town.

I could really go for some damn cream cheese donuts though

[Kyle Walther]

no, you don't want to go, because you know you'll just get beat!

[Dallas Blake]

back on topic, Queen's has a rolling car as of 10:30PM March 14th, A couple pictures are posted on our website

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

Oklahoma officially had a rolling chassis March 11th at about 10pm, followed by a running car a few hours later. We got all 3 of our cars (SRT-05, SRT-06, SRT-07) prepared to compete in the aforementioned MiDiv FSAE Challenge, drove to Salina, KS, and managed to break all three of them in less than 4 hours.

I think we are doing pretty good, however. We've never had a running car, much less broken one, this early.

http://sae.ou.edu/images/runningcarthumb.jpg

[IttyBitty]

UC Berkeley officially has a running car as of 3/18/2007

we'll be at the west practice comp. and actual comp.

cya there!

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/cal_fsae/shes%20alive/

[kwancho]

That's awesome! When can Stanfurd get to see her run?

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by IttyBitty:
UC Berkeley officially has a running car as of 3/18/2007

we'll be at the west practice comp. and actual comp.

cya there!

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/cal_fsae/shes%20alive/

Those shock/dampers look interseting, any reason for splitting them?
What is this:
http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/cal_fsae/shes%20...3-9-07weekend042.jpg (http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/cal_fsae/shes%20alive/?action=view&current=3-9-07weekend042.jpg)
I assume its a wheel center bolted to a driveshaft or something?

[kwancho]

Inner part's a Torsen, outer part bolts to a sprocket.

[Alan]

Originally posted by drivetrainUW-Platt:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IttyBitty:
UC Berkeley officially has a running car as of 3/18/2007

we'll be at the west practice comp. and actual comp.

cya there!

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/cal_fsae/shes%20alive/

Those shock/dampers look interseting, any reason for splitting them?
What is this:
http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/cal_fsae/shes%20...3-9-07weekend042.jpg (http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k181/cal_fsae/shes%20alive/?action=view&current=3-9-07weekend042.jpg)
I assume its a wheel center bolted to a driveshaft or something? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't speak for the team obviously but if you had a certain spring motion ratio that you want and it wasn't a favorable motion ratio for the damper (because of valving limitations, etc...), this is one way to address that. Its called a Riley Rocker (of Riley & Scott).

[terra_dactile]

hey itty bitty,
I was wondering how you guys insure that the spring does not buckle under loading, it seems in the picture that the spring has taken a banana shape if you look at if from the front,
considering the fact that each side is a pivot and there is nothing to limit it from twisting that way. On the normal damper setup it is guideed by the body /spacers.

Anyways just wondered if it caused any problems,

sincerely,

Jude Berthault
ETS FSAE 2003-Current
Team Captain & Vehicle Dynamics Leader

[Azim]

Wichita State's first FSAE car is finally rolling (if not quite running yet)...

This is the car as it was at a presentation we gave to Raytheon yesterday; we worked all week to get it on wheels and it's nice to see it not on sawhorses anymore!
Pic 1 (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2188000-2188999/2188725_50_full.jpg), Pic 2 (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/2188000-2188999/2188725_52_full.jpg)

Maybe, just maybe I'll get it started soon (damn R6 engine/stock ECU sparks only when it feels like it - still trying to figure out why) http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

As you can see there's still a little ways to go on the car - the restrictor still needs to be put on and the car tuned, and the body's still a work in progress.

[ScottW]

I don't think it's too bad for our first car ever at a projected ~475 lb. dry. Without the diff, most of the body or attenuator it was ~440 lb.

[scottie]

congrats on getting your car going, it looks great especially for a first year team....two year or one year design cycle?

Im interested in how you were able to keep your suspension points so low. Hows your driver's legs getting around your dampeners?

It looks rather intrusive into the cockpit... do you have covers?

[scottie]

will we be seeing you at east? west? both?

[ScottW]

It's actually our second year though 80 percent of the car was probably designed and built this year. We have a cover over the steering and shocks for our feet that's not in the pictures, but yeah the cockpit is kinda tight. We'll be going to West, how about you?

[fade]

looks like the riley setup uses a non pivoting inboard mount, i guess as long as your careful with the misalignment angle the spring isnt able to bend/buckle.
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/R&SBC8.jpg

[scottie]

have a cover over the steering and shocks for our feet that's not in the pictures, but yeah the cockpit is kinda tight. We'll be going to West, how about you?
we (Michigan State) are registered at EAST and WEST this year. we are also try to make it to Australia as well....heres hoping

look forward to seeing you guys out there

[ScottW]

we (Michigan State) are registered at EAST and WEST this year. we are also try to make it to Australia as well....heres hoping

look forward to seeing you guys out there

That's pretty ambitious, good luck though. We went to L.A. last year (carless) and I remember your car, it looked really good - awesome paint. I'll look foward to seein' you guys this year.

[poweredbyvdub]

the riley rocker gave us the motion ratio we wanted for the spring, while giving us the travel that we needed for the shock. we were able to run those dinky springs ($25 a piece) while still getting the wheel rate we needed. the setup also minimized shock shaft bending without the use of expensive hydraulic spring perches.

originally, we ran rod ends at both ends, but as soon as we put any load on the spring, the damn thing popped out (whoops). the solution was to fix the in-board end, which worked for the riley+scott car that had very little suspension travel. we need more travel than that, and as a result our spring takes on that "bannana" shape that jude alluded to, and we have more friction on the spring side than we'd like.

the next step is to create a "stable column" with a spherical bearing on the inboard end, which will be on the car in the next week or so.

and dont mind the monstrous radiator and ghetto mount! there will be a proper sized one on the car asap!

[Dallas Blake]

A turbo car on the teams second year, thats very ambitious of you. Do I also spy pneumatic shifting?

Best of luck to you, I hope your tuning and testing goes well

[Kirk Feldkamp]

To be honest, there are 4 years of turbo experience that went into their 'second' car. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by Dallas Blake:
A turbo car on the teams second year, thats very ambitious of you. Do I also spy pneumatic shifting?

Best of luck to you, I hope your tuning and testing goes well

Thats the NAWWWWWZ bottle you see http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[poweredbyvdub]

actually the "nos" and turbo are two of maybe five things that were carried over from the first car. both systems are pretty well sorted. all we have to do is mount the new tank as soon as the filling equipment comes in and rewire the mess.

[Mike Flitcraft]

Running, stopping, and turning. Good news so far.

[jeff-NIUMS]

Our car is officially driving and running great. Just need the weather to hold up for some more testing. Here's a few teaser pictures.

http://www.niumotorsports.com/2007car1.jpg

http://www.niumotorsports.com/2007car2.jpg

[chavez]

those uprights are pretty sick...

[FryGuy]

Originally posted by chavez:
those uprights are pretty sick...

Thanks, glad someone appreciates them, they took over 10 hours a piece to make.

[Kyle Walther]

nice car i look forward to seeing it in person.

[Mike Flitcraft]

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/FSAE/

[MikeDutsa]

Jeff,

Are those the tanner gen 2s? if so how do ya'll like them?

Nice car, can't wait to get ours there.

Best,
Mike D
UTSA SAE President

[Sathersc]

Looks nice Mike. I especially like the rolling restart. I still want to get down there some time to see your shop. PM me if you're still interested in working that out.

[jeff-NIUMS]

Originally posted by MikeDutsa:
Jeff,

Are those the tanner gen 2s? if so how do ya'll like them?

Nice car, can't wait to get ours there.

Best,
Mike D
UTSA SAE President

Those are Gen 2's but we're going to be putting some gen 3's on there in the next couple days. They work great when they're new, but tend to leak a lot after a couple months. Our gen 2s are definitely in need of a rebuild.

[BrendonD]

I think we'll have the last rolling chassis completed that's going to compete in an 2007 comp. Good thing we're going to west! Our frame was done as of yesterday morning at 4:45am... I don't know if the motor was mounted last night as well. Now that the frame's done the car should really come together

[afroney]

Almost there... We are heat treating parts right now and tuning the engine. Hopefully most of that will be done by the weekend. Next, final assembly. Looks like we may have a finished car in 1-2 weeks

[ttk3]

Drove for the first time last week, under the cover of night. Finished a month earlier than ever before, we usually have it barely done for an early May unveiling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvhkacuG6_4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvhkacuG6_4

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Our car has been drivable for weeks but just now we have gotten out of teething problems (literally..). We have undergone some serious adversity and the testing time is decreasing rapidly. Only 17 days till our car leaves towards DTW..
Some photos and soon-to-be video can be found from our web site.

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/

[Patrick]

Been driving the new beast for a few weeks now http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Try not to drool on the keyboard haha


http://www.rpi.edu/~degrop/100_0495.jpg


-Patrick
RPI FSAE
Engine and Powertrain Group

[consig]

Were working on it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/bigbrotherjohn/n28900101_30088509_2952.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/bigbrotherjohn/n28900101_30088511_3457.jpg

see you in may http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Chris Allbee]

consig, just curious, is your seat belt bar supported or is it cantilevered right now? I only ask because the judges will require a gusset or some sort of support for bending loads in order for it to pass tech. Looks good though!

[BrendonD]

consig, i think we have less parts right now than you do.... I am trying to spend money as fast as i can, lol. What motor is that?

[Kyle Walther]

brendon - it looks to be an f4i

Patrick -

is that a wing mount on the top of your rear roll hoop(near the roll hoop supports)? i know your team hasn't been afraid of aero in the past.

[Patrick]

Kyle,

Good eyes bro http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif We eliminated the wings a few years ago due to lack of substantial proof that they work at the FSAE competition (i have no doubt that they are useful for solo nationals but that's another story). We've had several aero teams doing scaled wind tunnel testing, etc and soon we'll have a full size prototype to test.. so we wanted to make sure the mounts were on the car just in case. But I wouldn't expect to see them on at this competition... perhaps next year.

-Patrick

[skillet]

you gotta have wings. Just look at F1 all of them have wings! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[poweredbyvdub]

Originally posted by Kimmo Hirvonen:
Our car has been drivable for weeks but just now we have gotten out of teething problems (literally..). We have undergone some serious adversity and the testing time is decreasing rapidly. Only 17 days till our car leaves towards DTW..
Some photos and soon-to-be video can be found from our web site.

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/

as always, nice car and nice pictures.

looks like you guys moved back to 13" wheels this year... care to share the reason behind that? i'm guessing tire selection, as it looks like you guys are running the new fsae-specific goodyears, while 10" tire selection has gone way down, but thats just my best guess.

[consig]

Chris, our seatbelt bar is supported, I dont think we'll have to add gusset. You can see the cross bracing better here, I think it should be sufficient.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/bigbrotherjohn/n28900101_30088505_1946.jpg

and yes, that is an f4i.

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Originally posted by poweredbyvdub:

as always, nice car and nice pictures.

looks like you guys moved back to 13" wheels this year... care to share the reason behind that? i'm guessing tire selection, as it looks like you guys are running the new fsae-specific goodyears, while 10" tire selection has gone way down, but thats just my best guess.


Your best guess was good.
We moved back to 13" wheel just because of the tire selection. 10" Hoosier was good in short events but in endu they seemed to lose their quality.
We're not sure yet which tires we'll use in Detroit. We were prepared to use Goodyears but we haven't got them to work the way we want. Though it might be result from quite cold weather we've tested in.

[nickerss]

Originally posted by BStoney:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by consig:
Chris, our seatbelt bar is supported, I dont think we'll have to add gusset. You can see the cross bracing better here, I think it should be sufficient.


Consig,

I would recommend sending a quick note to the rules committee regarding your seatbelt bar. I know that Michigan State last year had to cut and weld in tubes that were either tension/compression when the seatbelt bar was placed into bending. From the looks of your picture above, the tube(s) you have supporting your seatbelt bar are put into bending with little tension/compression as well when the seatbelt bar is in bending from loads applied by the seatbelt.

You should hedge your bets and just send a quick note in so you don't have to deal with hacking your frame up at competition (no fun) http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We used an essentially identical bracing setup to the one pictured last year and nothing was mentioned during tech. That's not to say that it means it is ideal or even okay, but we're doing the same thing again this year. Has anyone else had issues during tech regarding this bracing?

[poweredbyvdub]

Originally posted by Kimmo Hirvonen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by poweredbyvdub:

as always, nice car and nice pictures.

looks like you guys moved back to 13" wheels this year... care to share the reason behind that? i'm guessing tire selection, as it looks like you guys are running the new fsae-specific goodyears, while 10" tire selection has gone way down, but thats just my best guess.


Your best guess was good.
We moved back to 13" wheel just because of the tire selection. 10" Hoosier was good in short events but in endu they seemed to lose their quality.
We're not sure yet which tires we'll use in Detroit. We were prepared to use Goodyears but we haven't got them to work the way we want. Though it might be result from quite cold weather we've tested in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

interesting. we've been looking at making the switch from 13s to 10s. thing is, its hard to tell whether the new tires are good enough to make up for the extra weight without any tire data or previous experience with the 10" hoosiers.

any possibility that you would be able share a rough estimate of the weight difference in the entire wheel package per corner? im guessing something like 3-5 lbs, but thats just the range that popped into my head off hand.

[John Valerio]

kimmo, another amazing car, congrats to you guys, can't wait to see it on the track.

jeff, i second the rear upright praise. how were you able to stake the sphericals in the lower mounts given the geometry of the upright? it looks like it would be really tough to get a good press without clear line of site above and below the bearings, but then again maybe your staking tool just owns ours.

[FryGuy]

jeff, i second the rear upright praise. how were you able to stake the sphericals in the lower mounts given the geometry of the upright? it looks like it would be really tough to get a good press without clear line of site above and below the bearings, but then again maybe your staking tool just owns ours.

I'm just that damn good with a hammer http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We were able to press the bearing from the bottom without too much problem. Staking was tricky, but we had a prototype piece that i was able to get some practice on before we did the real thing.

[Steve Yao]

Definately some nice work.
I have one concern though. I had thought that SAE scrutineers were getting very conservative about driver's feet pointing outside of the footbox structure...both in frontal and lateral profile...even if chassis structure would prevent ground contact in the event of a roll.

Rules:
3.3.6 Frontal Impact Structure
The driver's feet must be completely contained within the Major Structure of the
Frame. While the driver's feet are touching the pedals, in side and front views no
part of the driver's feet can extend above or outside of the Major Structure of the
Frame.


Originally posted by Kimmo Hirvonen:
Our car has been drivable for weeks but just now we have gotten out of teething problems (literally..). We have undergone some serious adversity and the testing time is decreasing rapidly. Only 17 days till our car leaves towards DTW..
Some photos and soon-to-be video can be found from our web site.

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/

[Kyle Walther]

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF007/2nd_part/slides/IMG_2229.JPG

you may try adjusting the heal stop to point the drivers foot a little more, or chop off his toes http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

all though when you look at it more closely. judging from the logo on his shoe he might be picking his heal up off the floor pan.

on another note:
why did you guys move away from the turbo set-up? you seemed to have that pretty nailed down.

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Originally posted by poweredbyvdub:
interesting. we've been looking at making the switch from 13s to 10s. thing is, its hard to tell whether the new tires are good enough to make up for the extra weight without any tire data or previous experience with the 10" hoosiers.

any possibility that you would be able share a rough estimate of the weight difference in the entire wheel package per corner? im guessing something like 3-5 lbs, but thats just the range that popped into my head off hand.

For what I know, in wheels and tires we saved ca 8kg(17.5 lbs) and moment of inertia decreased ca 30%.
For this reason 10" wheel would definetly be the way to go if just Hoosier wouldn't be the only one providing 10" wheels.


Originally posted by SEY:
Definately some nice work.
I have one concern though. I had thought that SAE scrutineers were getting very conservative about driver's feet pointing outside of the footbox structure...both in frontal and lateral profile...even if chassis structure would prevent ground contact in the event of a roll.

In January I asked from rules committee that are those front roll hoop braces enough as a protection and according to the rules. Then the answer was: "Yes, and probably not."
I asked them again when our car was build and then it wasn't OK. So we're doing the change before we disassemble the car for the frame painting.


Originally posted by Kyle Walther:
on another note:
why did you guys move away from the turbo set-up? you seemed to have that pretty nailed down.

One of the biggest reasons to go to NA for the first time was that we figured that we should concentrate on designing a car that would be fast and not what's "cool".
Last year our traction control limited the power on the fourth gear still. So, why not to make a car that uses the same amount of power on the tire but is 20lbs lighter.
One of the reasons was also that we thought we had walked the turbo-path till the end (for the time being) and we needed some fresh air to breathe, naturally that is.

[Pete M]

Traction limited in 4th gear?? I'm having a pretty hard time believing that. What's your final drive ratio?

Even with some pretty serious torque, we aren't traction limited above 2nd gear (in a straight line).

[skillet]

Originally posted by Kimmo Hirvonen:
..........we figured that we should concentrate on designing a car that would be fast and not what's "cool".

interesting we seem to have taken the opposite approach

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Originally posted by Pete M:
Traction limited in 4th gear?? I'm having a pretty hard time believing that. What's your final drive ratio?

Even with some pretty serious torque, we aren't traction limited above 2nd gear (in a straight line).

Sorry about going a bit off topic, but I have to back up my traction limitation claim.
Here's a MoTeC-print screen of semi-random test acceleration from last summer. The track was a main straight of karting track and track temperature was over 40C (104F):
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/Hyvinkaa_motec_acce.jpg

From there you can see that still in 5th gear the slip is over 4%.

[Pete M]

I'm not sure i'd call 4% slip "traction limited". The tyre is always going to operate at some non-zero slip ratio when under acceleration. I seriously doubt you were reaching peak traction at 4% slip. Typically, it's more like 10-15%, although this varies with a lot of things. Were you actually using TC to hold it at that value? If so, are you sure that was actually optimal?

[Chris Allbee]

Just a quick napkin numbers on your data there, it seems that after your initial launch burnout that your slip difference remains relatively constant within oh +/- 5%-ish. And your acceleration over the run is approximately .78g fairly consistently. With those kinds of numbers it doesn't seem that you would be experiencing wasted rear-wheel spin (based on average FSAE performance and the size of your car last year). Also, to second what Pete said, on what I am assuming is a nice surface (kart track) with 40C track temp, I would expect that your maximum traction would develop closer to the 10% range as Pete suggests. Just my 2 cents from what I can tell from the screenshot (some of the data is conspicuously blurred out http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

OK..I knew it was a mistake to defend myself but here's another MoTec print screen:

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/kuvat/Hyvinkaa_motec_acce_2.jpg

I made a slip percentage graph to ease the contemplation.
4th gear, slip is the desired >10%.

[Chris Allbee]

I wouldn't say it is a mistake to defend yourself. And you can't blame us for questioning the facts when the first evidence you gave showed 4% slip. Now the second one is a different story. At 12% slip, it is more believable that you indeed have a problem. And again, this all depends on your surface conditions. In detroit with a sandy parking lot and 25C track temps that 4% might indeed be close to your max slip levels, but not on a 40C kart track.

[Mikko Ahola]

But then we get to the fact that the slip is not much of a problem when running in straight line but at the track.

I was realy suprised when I first drove the new car. As with the turbo you had to start to wake the engine up a bit earlier while your still on the apex and there was no part throttle. Its eather open or closed but now I hit the throttle at the same spot and almost spun the damn thing because the car instantly reacted. Its very much more driveable at the track than the turbo one. And the sound is awesome too!

[Pete M]

Not trying to be vindictive here, i just question things. Especially when teams claim things we haven't managed. This isn't about knocking other teams, it's about seeing if the claim is valid, because i sure as hell want to be traction limited in 5th if it's possible!

It's a bit hard to see from the log, but you only seem to be pulling about 0.6 G towards the top of that run. That's about half our "traction limited" acceleration on a hot sticky track. If you really are at peak traction at that point, then i'd say you need to take a look at your tyres. 0.7 or so Gs is about all we manage towards 100 km/h too. We know we're not traction limited at those speeds. We start being power limited above about 50-60 km/h.

If i assume a 250 kg weight for a car+driver (seriously light for a turbo'd 4 cylinder), it takes about 2700 N to accelerate it at 1.1 G, completely neglecting air resistance. At 100 km/h, it would take 75 kW to produce this acceleration. Or about 100 hp at the wheels. This is pretty damn high, especially because air resistance is not exactly negligible at that speed.

[Chris Allbee]

Mikko, you have a valid point there with the slip being much more "sensitive" in the corners, meaning the car won't tolerate as much of it. All my previous arguments and statements were directed at the example of a straight line acceleration run. If you have a traction control that takes input from lateral accelerometers then you could devise a way to limit the slip under different conditions that way. On the other hand if you don't want to go the fancy electronic control route then a nice old-fashioned smooth power delivery will give you better response and control out of the corners, as you have noticed.

[repeatoffender]

Originally posted by Pete M:
Not trying to be vindictive here, i just question things. Especially when teams claim things we haven't managed. This isn't about knocking other teams, it's about seeing if the claim is valid, because i sure as hell want to be traction limited in 5th if it's possible!

It's a bit hard to see from the log, but you only seem to be pulling about 0.6 G towards the top of that run. That's about half our "traction limited" acceleration on a hot sticky track. If you really are at peak traction at that point, then i'd say you need to take a look at your tyres. 0.7 or so Gs is about all we manage towards 100 km/h too. We know we're not traction limited at those speeds. We start being power limited above about 50-60 km/h.

If i assume a 250 kg weight for a car+driver (seriously light for a turbo'd 4 cylinder), it takes about 2700 N to accelerate it at 1.1 G, completely neglecting air resistance. At 100 km/h, it would take 75 kW to produce this acceleration. Or about 100 hp at the wheels. This is pretty damn high, especially because air resistance is not exactly negligible at that speed.

Hi Pete,

Any chance you could post that dyno graph??? Im still trying to convince my school. Would help me out tremendously.

[Azim]

There's nothing like a little friendly rivalry between teams, right?
http://webs.wichita.edu/depttools/depttoolsmemberfiles/formulasae/OpenHouse2007_FSAE.jpg

We 'drove' the car for the first time yesterday. We're still missing some elusive front brake fittings though. We might also possibly/maybe have left some rubber down on the floor of the garage of the College of Engineering's new research building...

http://webs.wichita.edu/depttools/depttoolsmemberfiles/formulasae/hmmm....jpg

[BamaJeff]

If you don't chew Big Red, then...

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/909/p014ba8.jpg

[Nick McNaughton]

Originally posted by Kimmo Hirvonen:
I made a slip percentage graph to ease the contemplation.
4th gear, slip is the desired >10%.

Kimmo, until you've got runaway wheelspin in a straight line you're not grip limited.

You might have a car that's loose on the throttle when cornering, it might even have a back end that walks around a little bit and scrabbles for grip in a straight line ... but until you go over the peak, more power still makes it accelerate faster.

The absolute numbers shown in the data are easily thrown out by calibration, variation in effective rolling radius and so on ... but it does show stable wheelspin, whatever the %slip, which means you're not past the peak. I bet it feels like its trying to throw you off the road, though..

Cheers,
Nick

[Pete M]

There are two cases where being above your peak traction slip ratio will not lead to runaway wheel spin. The first is traction control cutting. The second is an engine with a strong negative gradient on its torque curve. Increased wheel slip increases engine speed, and if the drop off of engine torque is larger than the drop off in traction, the system will reach a second equilibrium point, instead of being unstable. This often happens with our engine because of the peaky torque curve. So just because you don't have wheel spin doesn't necessarily mean you're getting the most out of your tyres.

That's a bit beside the point though. IMHO, the real number i'm interested in is longitudinal Gs. If you're not above 0.9 Gs in a straight line, you either aren't at your peak traction or your tyres are crap. This obviously depends on track surface, tyre temps, static weight distribution, etc, but 0.9 is a pretty conservative number.

[conekilr]

Hey Azim, it's nice to see that your car is coming along, we look forward to seeing you guys at competition or maybe some local autocrosses!

[Big Poppa]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u26/enduro44/S8000321.jpg
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u26/enduro44/Picture078.jpg (http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u26/enduro44/Picture078.jpg%5B/URL%5D)[/URL]
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u26/enduro44/?action...eApril132007Mike.flv (http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u26/enduro44/?action=view&current=FirstDriveApril132007Mike.flv)
Saginaw Valley State University #106 entry made it to the practice track this past weekend!!

[John Stimpson]

We're not quite there yet...

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q243/stimpsonjohn/2007%20Kettering%20FSAE/DSCN3215.jpg

[John Stimpson]

BamaJeff: Are those pedals off your FSAE car? What is the thickness of all that aluminum, the pedals, the plate, etc etc... Looks to be .250"!

[Erich Ohlde]

Here is a video that we played at our unveiling. Look closely and you might see some trick parts =]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwjn6MVrvfc

[Wesley]

Lookin' really nice up there in Kansas! Wish I could've seen that one in person.

Though I would have to say, if OU made a video, it would involve a song that starts something like...
"Just a good ol' boy..." with our knack for putting f&#*ing huge wings on everything we see.

[skillet]

SVSU looks good! I see the gear drive is gone. Any idea on the weight it looks light http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Big Poppa]

Its been on the scales....And the reading was http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[adrial]

Originally posted by jayhawk_electrical:
Here is a video that we played at our unveiling. Look closely and you might see some trick parts =]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwjn6MVrvfc

First team to do a carbon chassis? What year was that? Or do you mean first Kansas team to do a carbon chassis?

[conekilr]

1999 was the first year we used a carbon monocoque. I wouldn't say it was anything near amazing, as it was wet lay-up, but it was a start.

[adrial]

I was just wondering, because I know Rutgers did a carbon car in '94 and as far as I know that was the first carbon chassis in the FSAE world.

You guys are making me want to go back to school for no apparent reason other than to do FSAE again...

[James Waltman]

From the YouTube Video:
The first team to build a carbon fiber chassis.

Originally posted by conekilr:
1999 was the first year we used a carbon monocoque.

Uh... That doesn't quite work out.

Drexel had a full fiberglass monocoque in '89 and carbon monocoque in '93.
Source: http://www.pages.drexel.edu/fsae/


.

[flavorPacket]

ownage?

[mtg]

Originally posted by adrial:
You guys are making me want to go back to school for no apparent reason other than to do FSAE again...

The FSAE vortex- probably responsible for more graduate degrees than anything else.

[VFR750R]

Uh... That doesn't quite work out.

Drexel had a full fiberglass monocoque in '89 and carbon monocoque in '93.
Source: http://www.pages.drexel.edu/fsae/

That 89 car is crazy. Composite flexors in 89, when did they start using them in F1?

[C.Zinke]

We will compete in England and at Formula Student Germany. We had our rollout at the hannover fair on monday.

Regards

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3927/lr07qj4.jpg

[Conor]

That car is drop dead gorgeous.

[conekilr]

I was just wondering, because I know Rutgers did a carbon car in '94 and as far as I know that was the first carbon chassis in the FSAE world.


Ya, I was a little skeptical about that when I first saw the video. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Maybe someone else on the team can explain?
Those old drexel cars (as well as the new) are impressive! Especially their first entry.

[Biggy72]

You can add Washington State University to the list of teams up and running. I'm going to try to post a video on youtube tonight if I don't fall asleep first.

[Biggy72]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWiylxWsBj8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oq76zTIJvc


Just keep in mind that the car was only running for 15 minutes before we tried driving it up the hill.

[Kyle Walther]

http://photos-439.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v81/238/65/9602138/n9602138_33677439_1706.jpg

detroit ready.....sorta..at least the stickers anyway..

camera phones really do it no justice.. i hope someone from my team can post a better picture.

[Azim]

Originally posted by conekilr:
Hey Azim, it's nice to see that your car is coming along, we look forward to seeing you guys at competition or maybe some local autocrosses!

Hi Jared, yes it is nice that the car's almost competition-ready after staring it at on sawhorses for so long. It is a little late to tell you this but we are going to Salina today...

We've managed to get some driving time in the car on Friday and Saturday - what an amazing thing to see the car actually drive... On Friday evening we barely got to do a few laps in a parking lot before a campus cop told us we couldn't test there because we didn't have headlights, tail lights and turn signals http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif!.

We managed to get a couple of hours of driving time today - we'd have run the car quite a bit more but we had to wait for a cricket tournament to end in the lot we wanted to use. We're all quite amazed that nothing's broken yet, to be honest!

I'm just bummed out that I don't fit in the car. Oh well http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

[Steve Yao]

Very nice looking car.

I noticed from the pics on your website, that you are running some very aggressive anti-squat. Could you comment? How does the car drive? That much anti-squat would seem to lead to some significant dynamic wheelbase specs.

The uprights also look sweet. How are you guys making them? Cast? CNC surface shells? ...crazy hydroformed sheetmetal?




Originally posted by C.Zinke:
We will compete in England and at Formula Student Germany. We had our rollout at the hannover fair on monday.

Regards

[C.Zinke]

Thanks,

At the Moment i can't tell you how the car drives. We will have our first test on saturday. In our 2006 car we had 100% anti-squat. Now the LR07 has both, 100% anti-dive and 100% Anti-squat. One of the reasons is, that the car has a lot of camber gain and a very soft suspension.

I did not understand what you mean with "dynamic wheelbase specs". Just for information: The car has a wheelbase of 1525mm and a four-cylinder engine.

The uprights are casted. We done it by rapid prototyping sand cast. It gave us the possibility to do a closed hollow structure for more stiffnes. Furthermore we could realise a very complex kinematic without problems during manufactoring. This year we use an ABS. Its was difficult to evaluate, how the ABS would influence the strength of the casted uprights, so that i will do some milled spare parts.

Here is a picture how it looks in reality:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2376/20070406erstebildervomlxz4.jpg

In this gallery there a some more detailed pics:
http://www.lionsracing.de/component/option,com_ponygall...func,detail/id,1232/ (http://www.lionsracing.de/component/option,com_ponygallery/Itemid,68/func,detail/id,1232/)
http://www.lionsracing.de/component/option,com_ponygall...func,detail/id,1251/ (http://www.lionsracing.de/component/option,com_ponygallery/Itemid,68/func,detail/id,1251/)

[Steve Yao]

Dynamic wheelbase is just a fancy way of saying, your wheelbase will change. With 100% anti-dive and anti-squat, whenever your wheel travels your wheelbase will not stay at 1525mm.

In cornering, one side compresses, and the otherside extends right? With that much anti-dive and anti-squat there is probably a significant difference in wheelbase between left and right sides, at say 1G cornering? With the short VSAL and a lower control arm statically angled, it seems like there would be measurable changes in track width as well. Has the team calculated this?

It does look like its being countered with stiff ARB's, but I was curious if that was the intention. Seems like you will have to be careful in tech inspection (i.e. have a driver or ballast in the car) to make sure your wheelbase is at least 1525mm if they measure it.

[C.Zinke]

At 1,5g cornering the difference of the inner and outer wheelbase is 7,6mm. Not that much i think.

As the rollaxle is near ground, the changes in trackwidth are little. At 1,5g cornering the front track is 0,3mm wider, the rear track is 0,1mm smaller. The biggest side movement is done by the rear inner wheel (0,9mm).

The ARBs are very soft. Altough every ARB can be adjusted in stiffnes within 400%, they only can chance the rate (front/rear) of the LLT within 10%. (If its not enougth i have planed other rocker geometries)

EDIT: Don't think, that the ARB are stiff, because you see that 20mm tube there. There are very soft leverarms at every side that can be adjusted. The tube is that thick to get the range of adjustment bigger.

Regarding the tech inspection: Yes you are right. I had measured it some days ago. Its was more than 1525mm, because we adjusted the cars height 5mm lower than calculated.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

czink...

HOLY TOOTHPICK a-arms Batman!

[Wesley]

Another camera-phone of SRT-07, but sans rear wing.

One of these days I'll get some good pictures of it out in the sun with my real camera.

http://photos-100.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v76/181/98/9619773/n9619773_33692100_1042.jpg

[kwancho]

Originally posted by drivetrainUW-Platt:
czink...

HOLY TOOTHPICK a-arms Batman!

Also, holy spindly rockers.

[The Stigg]

Originally posted by C.Zinke:
At 1,5g cornering the difference of the inner and outer wheelbase is 7,6mm. Not that much i think.

As the rollaxle is near ground, the changes in trackwidth are little. At 1,5g cornering the front track is 0,3mm wider, the rear track is 0,1mm smaller. The biggest side movement is done by the rear inner wheel (0,9mm).

The ARBs are very soft. Altough every ARB can be adjusted in stiffnes within 400%, they only can chance the rate (front/rear) of the LLT within 10%. (If its not enougth i have planed other rocker geometries)

EDIT: Don't think, that the ARB are stiff, because you see that 20mm tube there. There are very soft leverarms at every side that can be adjusted. The tube is that thick to get the range of adjustment bigger.

Regarding the tech inspection: Yes you are right. I had measured it some days ago. Its was more than 1525mm, because we adjusted the cars height 5mm lower than calculated.

I think more important as the change in wheelbase will be the combination of change in wheelbase and castor that will occur. This will incline the roll axis in several directions belonging to driving situation and this will of course change stady-state and transient vehicle behavior.
One more thing to care about is the fact that small changes in your setup will maybe introduce unexpected vehicle behavior.

But of course this is a gorgeous car!

[TG]

Originally posted by adrial:
I was just wondering, because I know Rutgers did a carbon car in '94 and as far as I know that was the first carbon chassis in the FSAE world.

You guys are making me want to go back to school for no apparent reason other than to do FSAE again...

ASU in '92... laid up and cured at what was formerly McDonnell Douglas and now is the Boeing Apache Works in Mesa with experimental carbon fabric and aluminum honeycomb from Hexcel in Casa Grande. There's an award in our office from back then for the best use of polymer composites that year. There's a pic of the car in the FSAE history (http://www.sae.org/students/fsaehistory.pdf) pdf. UT Austin is listed in there as having the first composite car, but from what I've heard, the '92 car was the first carbon monocoque.

[carboneater]

http://usa.halomopo.at/fileadmin/media/07_Galerien/2007_FSAE/2007-04-17_Tankia2006/Tankia_schraeg_oben.jpg
http://usa.halomopo.at/fileadmin/media/07_Galerien/2007_FSAE/2007-04-17_Tankia2006/04_Tankia_Blick_von_oben.jpg

TU Graz is ready to compete!

We made some changes and new Carbon wheel rims (not the ones on this picture).

We are already excited about the event.

[HenningO]

Will TU Graz compete with a new car in England?

What's the status on that one?

[carboneater]

Yes we will compete with a new car.
The Rollout of the new Tankia2007 is on April 27th (7.30 pm GMT+1).
You can watch it via livestream on www.racing.tugraz.at (http://www.racing.tugraz.at)

Pictures will follow after April 27th.

[Peter]

What car is the one above then? It looks like the 06 car, except for the paint?

Peter
Delft 04UK FSG06

[RacingManiac]

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/3258034d.jpg

It's been running for 2.5 weeks now...

[Wesley]

Ok, here's a real pic:

http://photos-199.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v72/181/98/9619773/n9619773_33702199_807.jpg

[ad]

Originally posted by Peter:
What car is the one above then? It looks like the 06 car, except for the paint?

Peter
Delft 04UK FSG06

I do have to agree, it looks quite similar to previous car.

Still admirable build quality.

[mtg]

The TU-Graz car looks awesome!

[carboneater]

We compete with the 06car in Detroit and with the new one in Silverstone for the first time.
Pictures will follow - we have Rollout on Friday.

Thanks for the compliments!

[ScottW]

Hey Azim, it's nice to see that your car is coming along, we look forward to seeing you guys at competition or maybe some local autocrosses!

We were at Salina 4/22: http://webs.wichita.edu/?u=formulasae

I think it performed superbly for being the first time out, the first time driving a vehicle like this and our first ever car. We should be at Salina again on 5/13 and possibly 6/13, hopefully we'll see you guys at one of those.

[Mexellent]

We're almost there.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Flexicoker/F07/wallpaperMedium.jpg

[raitinger]

You shockers are looking great...Can't wait to see you guys at some AutoXs. You guys are going to start making us look bad...we have been AutoXn enough at all.

We might might have to make the trip down to OU and give those guys a what for....winged bastards!!

[95M3Racer]

UTA, is that picture distortion, or do you have a large peak on the inside of the rear tires?

Wings look fabulous as usual!

[Mexellent]

That would be an accumulation of rubber dingle-berries.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Which engine did UTA go with this year?

-Kirk

[Mexellent]

Thanks! We are quite smitten with them as well! =D

We decided to go with the F4i this year. The 250 turbo had too many occurances of spontaneous crankcase ventilation.

OU, the new car is looking good. Hope you guys arent as fast as you were at nationals! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[TGrau]

Originally posted by Mexellent:
Thanks! We are quite smitten with them as well! =D

We decided to go with the F4i this year. The 250 turbo had too many occurances of spontaneous crankcase ventilation.

OU, the new car is looking good. Hope you guys arent as fast as you were at nationals! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I always look forward to seeing what kind of trick aero devices you guys come up with. Did you guys utilize anything from previous cars or did you come up with some new stuff for this year.

[Sooner_Electrical]

OU, the new car is looking good. Hope you guys arent as fast as you were at nationals! Wink

No need to worry Mexellent, we defiantly won't be. Took care of those pesky engine issues and lost about 20 lbs, not to mention we have more stickers and we all know what that means. You guys looking good as well.

OH yeah speaking of stickers you might want to check out the for sale section, might be an item of interest for UTA ... if UT buys the spot we cannot guarantee orientation...

[Mexellent]

Nitrofish, we came up with something new this year... but you'll have to wait until Detroit to see what it is. =]

Ricky, you say the car is 20lbs lighter? Well it looks like we'd like to buy that space on your wings after all. Where'd I put those 1/4" thick depleted uranium stickers?

[BStoney]

Been running since first part of March, but here she is in primer and initial body fit-up.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6875/img0507nc6.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/8007/topviewfw0.jpg

A hodge-podge of wheels on this one though...
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3026/img0514pp2.jpg

[PedalOnTheRight]

what kind of deflection are you getting with your intake design Stoney?

Under extreme vacuum, are you noticing any concavity to the top of the manifold?

Nice body work btw.

pedal.

[Big Poppa]

Whats the weight

[BStoney]

Pedal:

Dave, our engine guru could probably talk to the question about the intake better than I, as I simply just weld http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. In all reality, I believe it is minimal, as there is internal ribbing to support each side that also assists with the effects of intake scavenging.

Thanks for the props on the body. Completely hand shaped the body plug around Christmas time and then carbon for the final product.

Weight is about 440ish with body/fluids

[JuicedH22]

Originally posted by BStoney:
In all reality, I believe it is minimal, as there is internal ribbing to support each side that also assists with the effects of intake scavenging.

yup, answered pretty well by the welding grunt

[John Stimpson]

Oh yeah... Getting close! LOL

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q243/stimpsonjohn/2007%20Kettering%20FSAE/DSCN3290.jpg

[Landreneau]

http://www.engr.pitt.edu/fsae/images/2007/lights1.jpg
http://www.engr.pitt.edu/fsae/images/2007/lights2.jpg

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Roll out was today:
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF007/3rd_part/slides/IMG_2563.jpg

Video about Roll out (I added it just, so it doesn't work right away) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGfKzcuTAp8

Tomorrow car will leave towards Detroit.

[Alan]

Originally posted by Kimmo Hirvonen:
Roll out was today:

Video about Roll out (I added it just, so it doesn't work right away) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGfKzcuTAp8

Tomorrow car will leave towards Detroit.

Very impressive. Are you guys running Goodyears or Avons at Detroit?

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Originally posted by Alan:
Very impressive. Are you guys running Goodyears or Avons at Detroit?

Probably depends on weather.

[Mexellent]

Ive always liked the Helsinki cars. Whats new on this one? Who takes your pictures?

[Mikko Ahola]

Originally posted by Mexellent:
Ive always liked the Helsinki cars. Whats new on this one? Who takes your pictures?

13" rims, N/A engine and a little bit here and there.

Pics are taken by a friend and were taken in a tunnel under a freeway. If someone walked past the place when we were there they will propably think that we are mad. There were carbage bags over few of the road lights and one of us was swinging a 1,5m long fluorescence tube and he looked like Kenny because it was so damn cold... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kimmo Hirvonen]

Originally posted by Mexellent:
Ive always liked the Helsinki cars. Whats new on this one? Who takes your pictures?

Nothing major. 15kg less and some new "gadgets". Also from 10"->13" and no turbo. That's about it.

The picture taker would be me. With the picture above, we got help from Mr. Juha Kivekäs who's a semi-professional photographer.

[Wesley]

Looking good as always, Helsinki.

Pittsburgh.. Words cannot convey the awesomeness of that second picture. Are you sure you're not from Oklahoma? Maybe a distant relative?

[pablo180]

http://www.ecs.csun.edu/~sae/2007/media%20images/mediaImages/Maiden%20Voyage/Chilln.JPG

Maiden voyage happened today at 5 p.m.
Going to Formula SAE West.

More images here
http://www.ecs.csun.edu/~sae/2007/media.htm (http://www.ecs.csun.edu/%7Esae/2007/media.htm)

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Helsinki....you will need to bring a towel to competiton to wipe all the drool off your car....I know some of it will be mine, impressive once again.

[Nick H]

here's a picture of our car

http://www.csupomona.edu/~fsae/photos/2007rev07/Unveiling/24.jpg

see you in detroit!

[Biggy72]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJZX7-o9I88

This is a little better....

[carboneater]

The new Tankia2007.

http://racing.tugraz.at/fileadmin/media/galerien/2007/2007_27_04_innenstadt//kappi__3_of_7_.jpg

http://racing.tugraz.at/fileadmin/media/galerien/2007/2007_27_04_innenstadt//Tankia2007__10_of_29_.jpg

See you in Silverstone.
www.racing.tugraz.at (http://www.racing.tugraz.at)

[Mexellent]

That is a beautiful car, carbon eater. Nice wheels and tires. How much does the wheel weigh?

Although, Im not quite sure your chain guard is legal. Dont they have to be made of steel?

[C.Zinke]

Hi carboneater,

this car is again very impressive in design and finish. I like looking at it. Very nice wheels. I'm really interessted in your weight this year. I have some questions:

Did you modify the double barrel shocks, other oil maybe? I like that you changed your setup to pushrod this year at the front. I noticed that you had problems with understeer in 2006, how did you solve these problems in 2007?

[Haymo N.]

@ Mexellent,
the wheels weight is 1440g each (~3,2 lb)
the chain guard should also be legal, because there is a steel plate under the carbon fiber cover...
anyway thank you for the advice...

@ c.zinke,
i can't give you a exact weight at the moment, but it will be less than last year.. ;o)

regarding the under steer problem: we did a lot of changes... other tires, other tire dimensions, new suspension geometry, lower CG, other weight distribution...
if it's better than last year? We will see it soon on track...

greetings from austria
www.racing.tugraz.at (http://www.racing.tugraz.at)

[onemayonaise]

TU Graz... amazing as always... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

astonishing car, and stunning wheels... 1440g each?!?!?
i'm just wondering how can you be within the 25000 dollars with all that carbon fiber?...
we've tried to make an estimation of the cost for the production of carbon fiber/aluminum wheels for our car but we will exceed this limit very rapidly... and with a steelframe chassis...

...just curious... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (the question is referred also to all the other teams that use carbon fiber monocoques and rims...)

thanks!

Mauro

[ad]

Amazing piece of kit TUGraz.

That car looks alot smaller than last!

Have you got any closer pictures of those uprights? They look funky.

Actually the whole car looks funky http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[HenningO]

Originally posted by C.Zinke:
Did you modify the double barrel shocks, other oil maybe?

With the adjustment range they offer stock, what/why would you modify it?

As always, very impressive car! Looking forward seeing it action, and hopefully not being passed by you guys again! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Rachel]

CSUN's first run... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToalVy9BjCQ

[J. Vinella]

Originally posted by Haymo N.:
the chain guard should also be legal, because there is a steel plate under the carbon fiber cover...


Sounds like the Washington State Fair where they deep fry everything from Snickers bars to Hot Dogs.

It's nice to see a team dipping everything in carbon fiber. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Looks to be a very awe-inspiring car.

[JHarshbarger]

Originally posted by HenningO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by C.Zinke:
Did you modify the double barrel shocks, other oil maybe?

With the adjustment range they offer stock, what/why would you modify it?

As always, very impressive car! Looking forward seeing it action, and hopefully not being passed by you guys again! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think what he was referring to was the high amount of damping that the double barrels have. They do seem to be running a low motion ratio though. I'd really like to see how the car performs with those dampers. They were a consideration for our car this year, but the damping at 1:1 was much higher than I was looking for, and based on our track record of suspension stiction, I didn't want to run that low of a motion ratio.

Good luck TUGraz, the car looks amazing. Please let us know how the dampers work out for you.

[Figlio_del_Diavolo]

Some good looking cars in here. I'm looking forward to getting a look in a few weeks.

[Jersey Tom]

Dude what the junk I'm pretty sure these TU Graz jokers, whoever they are, pretty much straight up copied our design. Musta downloaded it off our old website or somethin.

Not sure if I'm allowed to show it off, but the Goodyears in this pic are some development tires, D3240. The set we got the print got put on backwards.

http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~szelag/car99.jpg

[reflexdb]

This is why we're behind.....lol.

[VFR750R]

I thought those wheels looked familiar.

[kwancho]

Wayyyy too much time on your hands.

[Jersey Tom]

Only took like 5 seconds to snap the photo.

[schmason]

all the UWA boys have flown out to detroit now. best of luck for the comp, lets hope all their hard work has payed off.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/schmason/uwamshoot3.jpg

[repeatoffender]

Originally posted by schmason:
lets hope all their hard work has payed off.

everyone puts in loads of hours and hard work, UWA are no different!

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

gawwwd dammn
Looks like I will have to buy another memory stick for my camera before comp!

[Jersey Tom]

Good lookin car from UWA, as usual. Hopefully I will have some pictures of our actual car up tonight.

[RotoryHeaven7]

I have to say I am impressed by the teams out there that put the effort into a goodlooking body ontop of a solid car year after year.

[TG]

Originally posted by Jersey Tom:
Not sure if I'm allowed to show it off, but the Goodyears in this pic are some development tires, D3240. The set we got the print got put on backwards.

I'm surprised you managed to get all the body color and decals to work, but couldn't put in a little effort to get the writing on the wheels and tires going the right way. Almost looks like a mirror of the text on the front tire would be effective.

[Wesley]

Oh sure, show off your fancy city and landscapes.

We could include a picture of our car with a barn. Or a friggin cow. Or a flat field full of dirt.

Or Old Joe Yolkum and the Shine-Shooting Bandits.

[skillet]

thanks for contributing to this forum

[Wesley]

" " " " " "

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

There is a windy road that runs by some farms we want to run the formula car down and video tape...it would have cows and barns...now we just need to build a car to drive.

[ad]

Originally posted by pablo180:
http://www.ecs.csun.edu/~sae/2007/media%20images/mediaImages/Maiden%20Voyage/Chilln.JPG

Maiden voyage happened today at 5 p.m.
Going to Formula SAE West.

More images here
http://www.ecs.csun.edu/~sae/2007/media.htm (http://www.ecs.csun.edu/%7Esae/2007/media.htm)

Pablo,

Great to see the new car running! Looks really hot mate!

Best wishes from UOW!

[GavinWard]

This year's only British entrant for FSAE has been running since the end of March. But I don't think many of us have slept since January!

http://www.brookesracing.co.uk/gallery2/d/2272-2/P5020175.JPG
http://brookesracing.co.uk/gallery2/d/2265-2/P5020162.JPG

Best of Luck and see you in Detroit.

[jakez]

Well, here at BYU, we're getting ready for our second year at West. We had our first real test day last wednesday. Here's a video. Pardon the lame music.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-121939421898860666&hl=en

Jake Zuehl
BYU FSAE

[jeff-NIUMS]

Well, we made a few changes to our car since the last post we made. Right now it tips the scales at 405 lbs, so I think we'll be ready for competition in a week for sure.

http://www.niumotorsports.com/testing.jpg

[Steve Yao]

405lb is d*mn impressive. As I recall, Penn State weighed bout as much a coupld years ago with gobs of titanium. Is this with a 4-cylinder?

[jeff-NIUMS]

Yes sir, we're running an 04 R6 this year

[BStoney]

Jeff from NIU:

You might want to check into the Technical Committee's opinion on your mounting of the Fuel Pump/Filter Assembly which appears to be on the underside/outside of the tube running from your main roll hoop to the structure at the rear of your engine.

This appears to maybe violate the "3.5.3.7 Fuel Lines, Line Attachment and Protection" rule. Just a thought to possibly relieve a headache at competition. Even if it doesn't, we all know how tech inspector's are and the not-so-obvious differences between "Letter and Spirit" of the rules. I've been there before too many times fixing something silly just because a tech inspector did not like it, even though it met the Letter of the rules.

[Hammock]

You might also take a look at your master cylinder positions, we had to weld a structure around a similar setup a few years back. Best of luck!!

Clay

[JR @ CFS]

We finally started the Engine in the Frame tonight and are expecting to be out running hopefully sometime this week...we have had a few problems with one supplier and are waiting for our hubs to arrive!

It was fantastic as we have had cold start problems (E85) and melted an Engine in testing, but it started practically first time! Always a good stage to reach with 58 days until the competition!

It is a credit to the team because we planned absolutely everything to reach this point and the only thing that prevented us from meeting our roll out deadline was a supplier who promised us parts 4 weeks ago! It shows you what you can achieve with good management, team work and planning!

[Dan Lentsch]

Well, here is our car's progress as of Sunday. We are still having some problems with the brakes, but hopefully we will have that solved tonight. Our engine should be here by Friday, so we should be running on something more than hopes and dreams. if you have any suggestions / comment let me know as this is our first car. Thanks!

http://www.upload-picture.com/images/wtA29285.jpg

http://www.upload-picture.com/images/pIB29345.jpg


-Dan
Marquette Racing

[Scorpio]

I like the Slick / rain tires conbination. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[flavorPacket]

not as good as the single shear rod end balljoints

[rjwoods77]

Looks like something Mad Max would roll in. I like it. Two may enter, one may leave.

[Chris Allbee]

Dan, looking good for a first car. But as these guys mentioned, the single shear rod ends...might want to bring spares to competition. a bit more serious question: Is that just one master cylinder I see mounted? If so, does it have a partitioned resovoir(sp?) for front and rear brake circuits?

[Dan Lentsch]

Yeah we will be bringing plenty of rod-ends. It's pretty bad that we are actually anticipating a failure on those things. Oh well, we know what not to do for next year. As for that lone master cylinder, I am going out and buying new ones today. We tried to use 2 master cylinders that were donated to us, but ran into more problems than they were worth.. Hopefully have the new ones working tonight. Thanks for the comments / criticism! We need to have a starting point as bad as it may be.

[Chris Allbee]

Dan, don't knock yourself too much. Its an incredibly hard thing to build one of these cars in time for comp, doubly so for a first year. Just thought of a question, what kind of diff you guys going to run?

[JR @ CFS]

So, here is a video of our Engine running.

Engine Start-up (http://web.student.chalmers.se/groups/formula/2007/070507/Enginestart.wmv)

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

Originally posted by jonnierice:
So, here is a video of our Engine running.

Engine Start-up (http://web.student.chalmers.se/groups/formula/2007/070507/Enginestart.wmv)

Jonnie,

cool sound with the compressor! I just looked at your web page and it states that you use a water-air intercooler. That is illegal according to the rules. Only ambient air may be used to cool the intake air. Would you mind commenting on that?

[Dan Lentsch]

just the "university special" torsen diff

[JR @ CFS]

Originally posted by Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor AG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jonnierice:
So, here is a video of our Engine running.

Engine Start-up (http://web.student.chalmers.se/groups/formula/2007/070507/Enginestart.wmv)

Jonnie,

cool sound with the compressor! I just looked at your web page and it states that you use a water-air intercooler. That is illegal according to the rules. Only ambient air may be used to cool the intake air. Would you mind commenting on that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will let our resident "engine guy" answer that for you... and thank you, it is indeed a cool sound. You can thank a fellow countryman for that http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MTTec]

Hi Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor AG,

I'm the guy who works with the Chalmers engine. We are using two Laminova cores with a second water circuit in the intercooler. This second circuit is cooled by ambient air so no problem with that. Chalmers used this system already on the 2006 car and there was no problem with that at the competition in England.

If you have any more question just ask me :-)

[HenningO]

Hey Jonnie.. Sounds good!

See you at Silverstone?

[John Stimpson]

Hmmm... I've been wondering about this water/air charge cooling, and that ultimately, even water/air coolers use ambient air exchange heat with... Just thought it would never fly with the judges.

Good to know!

[billywight]

if you have any suggestions / comment let me know as this is our first car. Thanks!

Just curious if you've measured your front bump-steer yet? Looking at the pictures it doesn't look like it will be too good, but it could just be the angle of the photo.

You might also consider welding in a few triangulation members if you have the time. It would probably be worth the weight increase in a few key areas. Congrats on your first car! It's a lot of work to get to that point.

[John Stimpson]

It looks like you'll have bad bump steer.

Essentially, you want your tie rods and control arms to be coplanar at all times, regardless of where in its travel your suspension is.

As mentioned, the design judges will tear you apart for the use of rod ends as ball joints. Honestly, single shear ball joints don't scare me that much for these cars, because they are so light and forces are relatively low, but the judges hate it. What size rod ends are they? 3/8" minimum I hope. I think I'd use 7/16 if I were going to have a rod end in bending and single shear.

I like that you guys have the conventional non-bellcrank style suspension, where the shocks pick up the LCA...very simple and effective.

What engine are you going to have?

[John Stimpson]

Also, whats with the inboard ends of your halfshafts?

I see you are using OEM Honda outboards, and stub axles I assume, but it looks like you've chopped off the spline on the inboard end... Are you planning to weld your own inboard CV setup on there?

If so, BEWARE! We've attempted this a couple different times, and the halfshaft has failed in the heat affected zone everytime - and that was with fairly competent welding, and a Honda CBR600F4 engine with about 12/45 gearing.

[Kurt Bilinski]

I'm afraid I have to jump on the rain-on-your-parade bandwagon. Yeah, lots of bump steer. Since it's rear steer, it'll toe-in on the outside tire when you turn in. At this late stage, the best you can do is lower the steering rack as much as possible, so that the steering arms just miss the chassis tubes in full droop. That shouldn't be too hard, as the driver can fish his feet under them. Not comfortable, but better than spinning off course.

Also, why put the calipers on the front side of front axle centerline? PMOI can be decreased (improved) by having them on the backside.

And lastly, why are the front inboard shock mounts in so far.. inboard. You're throwing away good shock travel by doing so. It looks like you have lots of space, so try to stand those shocks as close to upright as possible. You might still have time to move them outboard.

But hey, we all have to start someplace. At least you started, that's more than some have done.

[John Stimpson]

PMOI? Polar Moment of Inertia? Could you elaborate on this, and how it relates to mounting your brake caliper in front of the axle?

[pablo180]

I believe what kb58 is referring to is the YAW moment on the car. You want to reduce this as much as possible to increase maneuverability. To do this you want to mount everything as close to the center of the vehicle as possible. In this case, you'd want your front calipers behind the front centerline to bring it in closer. You could do the same with the rear. Mount the calipers in front of the rear centerline that is.

[adrial]

There is more to placing your brake calipers than the Yaw Moment of Inertia...the resulting bearing reaction loads can play a large role in placing the brake caliper.

[James Waltman]

Dan and the Marquette team,
Congratulations on making it this far as a first year team. It's a hell of an accomplishment.

Don't get too hung up on caliper location, PMOI, Yaw, Flexy chassis, bump steer, or whatever these guys are talking about. Those things won't keep you from competing.

HOWEVER, I think that your footbox might give you some trouble.
I think that it looks very similar to the "Not OK"� sample listed in cell B14 of the Front Bulkhead Support spreadsheet.
Spreadsheet (http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/rules/showFile/100075/d20051101140123/No/Frnt%20Bulkhd%20Spt%20Trian_7939C.xls)
From Here (http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/rules/docProfile/100075/d20051101140123/No/3.3.6.2%20Triangulation)

I can't be certain from your pictures. Take a look at it.
Good luck.

[John Stimpson]

Yowsers! I think he's right - you'll have to weld in a triangulation tube.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

What the heck supercharger is that? I hope its not another one off a minicooper thats way too big!

[MTTec]

Its an Autorotor twinscrew OA 1040. Special coated and modified for us. Not cheap but really good stuff.

[Mike Cook]

Originally posted by Dan Lentsch:
Yeah we will be bringing plenty of rod-ends. It's pretty bad that we are actually anticipating a failure on those things. Oh well, we know what not to do for next year. As for that lone master cylinder, I am going out and buying new ones today. We tried to use 2 master cylinders that were donated to us, but ran into more problems than they were worth.. Hopefully have the new ones working tonight. Thanks for the comments / criticism! We need to have a starting point as bad as it may be.

Dan, dont sweat it, these cars are hard to build! i'm surprised as many schools do the program as it is so much work. Anyways, about the rod ends in bending, buy the strongest rod end you can from Aurora bearing and then load that bitch up with jam nuts. This should help keep it from bending.

Other areas that my team has had trouble in:
Don't flip over (this one kin dof explains itself_)
Make sure you don't run to fine of a fuel filter before the fuel pump
Make sure your gas tank holds enough fuel.
Make sure you have two threads showing everywhere and everything that needs to be safety wired is.
Make sure the steering wheel doesn't have too much play.
Check welds for cracks, constantly. Especially high stressed unsprung parts.

Good luck and have a fire extinguisher ready.

[Sathersc]

We're cutting it close with our first ever FSAE car. This photo is about an hour old (2:30am this morning). We just got the car onto four wheels for the first time. We're looking to drive by 5pm on Thursday. It's by no means perfect, but we're pretty proud of our first attempt.

http://www.miamiredhawkracing.com/gallery/generators/original.php?imageid=210

[Tony K]

Finished up the alignment yesterday morning around 10am, took care of some details all day, and took it out for it's first drive around 9pm. We're taking it out later today with all the bodywork installed so that should make something break for sure...

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~akrezel/2007-CSU_First-Drive.jpg


http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~akrezel/2007-CSU_RF.jpg


http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~akrezel/2007-CSU_Side.jpg


http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~akrezel/2007-CSU_RR.jpg

[John Stimpson]

Good job...Looks good! Like the intake, how much power are you making? Is that your only radiator?, or is there one on the other side?

Running late? Nah! If you are running thursday night (tonight), you're doing days better than us. We have best hopes of running on Saturday sometime.

[BStoney]

Miami guys:

Great job getting the beast running for competition! You should be damn proud of yourselves. Let me know when you want to get together and run!

Colorado State:

What's the total weight?

[Dan Lentsch]

Hey guys, sorry for the slow response. Between Co-op and working on the car I don't get much time to look at the forum... (Like I need to be telling you guys that!) First off, let me say thank you for all the feedback you guys have been giving us!!! I think the ideas in regard to the jam nuts and the front roll hoop triangulation could really save us. Addressing the other issues...

First we are running 3/8th rod ends, which we are praying hold together.

2nd, bump steer is bad, but not as harsh as you would imagine. Under a huge load we only get a few degrees of tire movement. (We didn't really know what bump steer was, or how to fix it until we got the steering setup. oops) On that note, we wanted front brakes that worked, and didn't really put 100% thought into where they were located. That is for next year.

3rd, we are using Suzuki king quad 700 (front) CV shafts. Yes I welded them up; no I'm not all too confident about them. However, we do have one hell of an interference fit with the splines and the tubing that we used. (Not sure if that is the best thing, but before I welded them they could easily handle 200 + lb ft of torque without any slippage.)

We are running a '04 YFZ 450 so we won't be kicking out tons of power. I'm guessing that we will have some problems passing sound but at least we will be getting there. Just as an FYI, the car weighs a bit over 400lbs so we aren't all that heavy.

Don't worry about "raining on our parade"� the more things you guys tell us the more we have to expect in front of the judges, and can fix before we get there. So far you have been a huge help!!
Thanks, Dan

[Kurt Bilinski]

Originally posted by adrial:
There is more to placing your brake calipers than the Yaw Moment of Inertia...the resulting bearing reaction loads can play a large role in placing the brake caliper.

Agreed, like where the bleed screws are located. However, as far as bearing loads go, can you elaborate? There's a large braking torque imposed by the caliper, getting fed back into the chassis through the suspension. I don't see how that braking torque will be any different if the caliper is clocked differently.

About my PMOI comment, yes, it's improves yaw response. Granted, it's a very tiny improvement, but it's free, doesn't add weight, is just as reliable, and improves response slightly. How's that saying go? "Find tenths."

As others have said, it's quite the accomplishment to get a car built at all. You'll learn (and have learned) tons. My strongest suggestion however, is to try really hard to have some time for the driver to get used to it. I worked during the Handling Event last year, and my heart went out to some of the poor drivers, who, under (what they felt was) enormous pressure, made really silly driving mistakes that cost their teams dearly. For example, not driving the correct number of laps on the skidpad. It doesn't matter if the car's perfect if it's not driven well. Try to give your driver time to get familiar with it. Take it out to a large parking lot and let him go nuts. He needs time to find its handling "edges." If his big feet have trouble with the pedals in the garage, imagine what it can cause on-track. There's no excuse for not learning these quirks, while there's time to fix it, instead of it causing the car to spin off because he hit the gas and brake at the same time. Preaching mode off.

[Rellis]

Originally posted by Dan Lentsch:
Hey guys, sorry for the slow response. Between Co-op and working on the car I don't get much time to look at the forum... (Like I need to be telling you guys that!) First off, let me say thank you for all the feedback you guys have been giving us!!! I think the ideas in regard to the jam nuts and the front roll hoop triangulation could really save us. Addressing the other issues...

First we are running 3/8th rod ends, which we are praying hold together.

2nd, bump steer is bad, but not as harsh as you would imagine. Under a huge load we only get a few degrees of tire movement. (We didn't really know what bump steer was, or how to fix it until we got the steering setup. oops) On that note, we wanted front brakes that worked, and didn't really put 100% thought into where they were located. That is for next year.

3rd, we are using Suzuki king quad 700 (front) CV shafts. Yes I welded them up; no I'm not all too confident about them. However, we do have one hell of an interference fit with the splines and the tubing that we used. (Not sure if that is the best thing, but before I welded them they could easily handle 200 + lb ft of torque without any slippage.)

We are running a '04 YFZ 450 so we won't be kicking out tons of power. I'm guessing that we will have some problems passing sound but at least we will be getting there. Just as an FYI, the car weighs a bit over 400lbs so we aren't all that heavy.

Don't worry about "raining on our parade"� the more things you guys tell us the more we have to expect in front of the judges, and can fix before we get there. So far you have been a huge help!!
Thanks, Dan also im not sure if your impact attenuator is mounted correctly

the holes should go to the front of the car

[Andy K]

I love some of these creations and look forward to meeting many of you there. I'll be arriving late Thursday/early Friday with a few team members as a reconaissance mission for a first year team to get them addicted to the whole FSAE culture. It should be easier to build a car by 2009 when you know what the competition can throw at you. I mean, I've had my hand in a few already, but it'll be easier to motivate 6 other people to have it done by the summer of 2008 and test for a few months.


Don't worry about "raining on our parade"� the more things you guys tell us the more we have to expect in front of the judges, and can fix before we get there. So far you have been a huge help!!
Thanks, Dan

That's the spirit of the comp... we want to see as many teams run and finish as possible.

[Dan Lentsch]

My goal is to get this thing driving by saturday evening. That way we can have a good shake down, and do some driver training on Sunday-Tuesday. We have yet to find out who will be driving, we are just going to do something like the 4 best around a given cone track. unless you guys have any suggestion as to figuring out who should drive..

[Kyle Walther]

do you have a good local kart track. you could use that for selection of endurance/autocross. this way all of the on car time is spent training your drivers.

[Dan Lentsch]

no.. we are right in the middle of milwaukee so the best we have is big parking lots.. I'm pretty sure those will work just fine though

[Kurt Bilinski]

It'll be important to convince the guard in the golf-cart that you really are from the local university, and not just people who came to test their race car. Maybe have everyone involved wearing your university sweatshirts? Otherwise it'll be all too easy for them to chase you out. Let the guard know that the practice there is important in order to beat <insert name here>. Get the guard on your side.

[Dan Lentsch]

good idea, although i wish we had a gaurd in a golf cart.. Marquette is in a pretty bad neighborhood, so our gaurd in a golf cart is a fully armed marquette police force w/ 16 squad cars. On the other hand they seem to like the race car thing. They let us rip around campus in the baja car plenty of times before. but I'll go pay them a visit today, and see if we can get something setup just for testing.

[B Hise]

If you use campus lots, see if you can get a hold of the person in charge there. The U Maryland police always gave us trouble (ever heard an ignorant cop tell you that an FSAE car is in fact, NOT a vehicle?) until we got a signed letter from campus parking that we were allowed to be there. Now all the police can do is stop us at 3am because apparently not everyone likes to hear the car holler all night. Wankers.

Bryan

[Jevon]

Originally posted by kb58:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by adrial:
There is more to placing your brake calipers than the Yaw Moment of Inertia...the resulting bearing reaction loads can play a large role in placing the brake caliper.

Agreed, like where the bleed screws are located. However, as far as bearing loads go, can you elaborate? There's a large braking torque imposed by the caliper, getting fed back into the chassis through the suspension. I don't see how that braking torque will be any different if the caliper is clocked differently.

About my PMOI comment, yes, it's improves yaw response. Granted, it's a very tiny improvement, but it's free, doesn't add weight, is just as reliable, and improves response slightly. How's that saying go? "Find tenths."

As others have said, it's quite the accomplishment to get a car built at all. You'll learn (and have learned) tons. My strongest suggestion however, is to try really hard to have some time for the driver to get used to it. I worked during the Handling Event last year, and my heart went out to some of the poor drivers, who, under (what they felt was) enormous pressure, made really silly driving mistakes that cost their teams dearly. For example, not driving the correct number of laps on the skidpad. It doesn't matter if the car's perfect if it's not driven well. Try to give your driver time to get familiar with it. Take it out to a large parking lot and let him go nuts. He needs time to find its handling "edges." If his big feet have trouble with the pedals in the garage, imagine what it can cause on-track. There's no excuse for not learning these quirks, while there's time to fix it, instead of it causing the car to spin off because he hit the gas and brake at the same time. Preaching mode off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is true that the braking torque does not depend on the orientation of the caliper, but the wheel bearing loads will either have reaction forces added to or subtracted from them. Looking at the left side of a vehicle, if the caliper is located at 3 o'clock it will subtract from the vertical bearing loads. 6 o'clock will subtract from your longitudinal bearing force. Other locations will add to your bearing loads. Somewhere in this lower right quadrant is the place to mount the caliper IMO. Although I've heard people say that it's not good to mount them here because you could actually reverse your bearing loads.

It also goes along with reducing the yaw inertia (for the front anyways). I don't think there will be any measurable effect on the overall yaw inertia the vehicle though unless they are some really big calipers.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

There are 3 moments about building these cars that stand out in my mind...

The first time you get it self support on all 4 wheels (way to go Miami)

The first time you start it and run it

When you roll into the comp grounds and see 100 other teams that feel the same way!

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Dan,
I assume you are from MSOE from the location?

Good luck to ya, I consider you our other underprivaledged WI counterpart out to someday beat UW-Madison.