What is the status of your vehicle?

[Kyle Walther]

Originally posted by Dan Lentsch:
no.. we are right in the middle of milwaukee so the best we have is big parking lots.. I'm pretty sure those will work just fine though

i meant for rental karts not your fsae car, but i guess it doesn't matter since there isn't one around.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Dan Lentsch]

I dont think there are any small tracks, but I'll google it tonight.. and I'm from Marquette. I guess MSOE does not have the intrest to have a FSAE car this year.. what a bummer :/

[Tony K]

Total weight of our car as it sits is 465 lbs... it's kind of a tank, but we built it for reliability, so hopefully that works out.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

During skidpad testing. Just wanted to share.

http://sae.ou.edu/images/glow.jpg

[yipidee]

Hey Dan,

probably already been pointed out but I think that your crumple zone material isn't orientated correctly. As it is you could probably crush it by hand, ie it won't absorb much energy. I think it's supposed to be mounted so that it is stiffest in the direction of impact. The honeycomb should point foward.

[BamaJeff]

Our body will be back from paint tomorrow, so I should have a few photos.

[Wesley]

Matt, it's only red because you're taking pictures of its exposed parts.

Have you no decency man!?

[jdmdb1]

1 teaser pic from the University of Manitoba..

http://members.shaw.ca/pdziedzic/teaser2.jpg

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
See you guys next week!
The 24hour drive down starts Monday the 14th for us.

[Tony K]

Made it out with all the bodywork... too bad it was at night again. Maybe tomorrow we can try and build some heat in the tires during the day.

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~akrezel/2007-CSU_Night.jpg

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

Originally posted by MTTec:
Hi Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor AG,

I'm the guy who works with the Chalmers engine. We are using two Laminova cores with a second water circuit in the intercooler. This second circuit is cooled by ambient air so no problem with that. Chalmers used this system already on the 2006 car and there was no problem with that at the competition in England.

If you have any more question just ask me :-)

MTTec:
Rule 3.5.4.4 clearly states: Only ambient air may be used to cool an intercooler.

In your case you cool the intercooler with water and then cool the water with air. In my oppinion this is definitively illegal. I would strongly recommend you request an official statement regarding this system from the event organizer where you plan to compete. I can tell you that fo sure here in Germany we would not allow your system, because you clearly violate the intent of this rule.

[MTTec]

I disagree but we will contact the judges. I think the intention of this rule is more not to use water injection systems which use evaporation heat or to spray on the intercooler to get a better cooling effect. Our system only gives the heat to the ambient air. It does it only in a slightly different way than an air to air intercooler.

[ad]

Dan,

I guess its how you interpret the rules, so long as the rules committe agree with your interpretation!

The intercooler is cooled by air, just via a water transfer medium!

If you had read MTTec's post this arrangement is the 2nd year running. So its already been ok'd by the judges.

Personally i dont see that the benefits of an air / water / air system really can be seen on an FSAE car purely due to the excess weight in the system.

[ad]

Originally posted by MTTec:
I disagree but we will contact the judges. I think the intention of this rule is more not to use water injection systems which use evaporation heat or to spray on the intercooler to get a better cooling effect. Our system only gives the heat to the ambient air. It does it only in a slightly different way than an air to air intercooler.

Teams (such as cornell) have used fuel to the same effect.

Im sure Pat Clarke would tell you that adding 'water' is the same as violating the 'all air passing through the restrictor' rule. Think oxygen molecules in the water.

[Mike Flitcraft]

They would have to seperate the oxygen from the water and find a way to plumb it into their intake stream while not allowing the water to do the same.

I doubt they're willing to risk failing tech, or their engine, over such a miniscule benefit, if they can get it to work.

The water/air IC is completely seperate from the intake stream. It does not pass through the restrictor.

[Pete M]

If i built an intercooler based on refrigeration principles, it'd be legal because ultimately the heat is dissipated to ambient air? Even though i could theoretically get intake temps well below ambient?

Doesn't sound like the intent of the rule to me.

[Matt N]

I don't know why you guys are worrying about it so much. To me, it means they intentionally built their car probably 15lbs more overweight than they otherwise would have.

Considering most of our tracks are already significantly traction limited, I think it puts them at a bigger disadvantage to carry around the lbs than to have three extra lb-ft of torque when the turbo spools.

Matt

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

On a completely unrelated note, has anone else noticed that RMIT is listed as "Dropped" in the statics event schedule? Are they not coming to defend the title?

[BStoney]

RMIT is not coming to Detroit due to financial constraints is the last I heard.

[Hot Rod JayRad]

MTTec,

Love the sound of that autorotor lysholm. Can you tell me a little bit about it? How much does that beast weigh? How much did it cost ya?

[Neil S]

http://web.umr.edu/~nwsn74/thumb.jpg

Not completely done with stickers but here's a teaser, have to see the rest at competition.

More pictures here (http://web.umr.edu/%7Enwsn74)

[Rellis]

nice looking car rolla

[HenningO]

Really nice! Love the aero package! But looks like there is a couple of sharp edges that don't look very tech-friendly.

Good work!

[Kurt Bilinski]

I hope that rear wing will get some additional supports!

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by kb58:
I hope that rear wing will get some additional supports!

at 30 mph....naw....nice looking car though.....
Dont want to start the aero debate. Looks like it is tied into the main roll bar as well.

Do your front wheels turn, looks like the "fenders" are pertty close to the tires?

[Marshall Grice]

Wing mounts look good. The tunnels look too small! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[kwancho]

Originally posted by Marshall Grice:
Wing mounts look good. The tunnels look too small! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Need I remind you of the West Coast Practice couple years ago?
30mph + crosswinds...

[Marshall Grice]

Need I remind you of the West Coast Practice couple years ago?
30mph + crosswinds...


hahah. what are you talking about? that mount was BEEFY. it was just make of aluminum and fatigued.

[Sathersc]

Looks really nice UC, can't wait to see it in person.

[JDZ]

Daniel Deussen I need your help with MPE 750 ecu programming.. I sent an email to your svsu.edu address.

Please help. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thanks,
Joe

[JonMW]

Had the roll out yesterday. Still a lot of things to do but at least it looks like a car. It was nice to see how small it was. It's 25 cm shorter and 30 cm lower then last years car. The scales said 150 kg without radiator and electrical systems. So we should meet our goal of under 200 kg with four cylinders and turbo.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n191/JonMW/kthr4.jpg

Now we got two months to get it running good and ready for England

[GavinWard]

Holy skimpy wheel centres!

Body looks pretty wild. Lookin' forward to seeing it at Silverstone.

I assume the main hoop braces are still to come??

G

[afroney]

Just finished ours yesterday. Hope nothing breaks!

[JonMW]

Gavin your right, it will get some roll hoop bracing asap. We'r just not sure where to mount them.

[Sathersc]

Finally driving, a couple of days behind schedule. We had a hell of a time with the rear brakes. We got in a little bit of shake down testing in tonight to see what needs to be cleaned up before we really bite into it tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO_Q0lyWvmg

[Mike Flitcraft]

Sam: for your rear brakes, CarQuest sells spools of solid brake line in 25 foot sections. Sorry for not tellin you, but I tend to forget a lot at 12:15am after getting woken up http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

It'll eliminate all your compression fitting leak woes, promise http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Congrats on getting it running man. Can't wait to see all these cars in person.

[Mike Claffey]

Well us at UWA have made it to the US safely, and have been working on the car all most non stop. I can't wait to see the other cars at competition this year, hopefully I'll have more time to walk around, talk and take some photos.

Mike: I liked Cincinnati's car alot, it looked great up close.

Zips racing have been really great to us also with letting us do work at their shop: cheers guys!

And I don't know what it is about European teams and great body work. Helsinki and KTH both look really good... The girls at my Stockholm stopover were too.

[RotoryHeaven7]

Here is a better pic of our car.ttp://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x252/gewahlte/IMG_0793_edit.jpg http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x252/gewahlte/IMG_0793_edit.jpg

[JuicedH22]

Originally posted by Mike Claffey:
Well us at UWA have made it to the US safely, and have been working on the car all most non stop. I can't wait to see the other cars at competition this year, hopefully I'll have more time to walk around, talk and take some photos.

Mike: I liked Cincinnati's car alot, it looked great up close.



Your car looks pretty sexy as well, and you all seem to be friendly guys, I look forward to seeing and talking to you all again this week.

[denn]

Lancer Motorsports (http://fsae.uwindsor.ca)

[Dr Claw]

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2151708240074791088bBgdQE

We are finally done! LTU's dark knight http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We currently have Oakland U, Missouri Rolla and Fei (brazilian)in our lab doing stuff and registration opens in 7 hours http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. The Circus has already started for us. see ya all tommorrow!

also...I finaly uploaded last year's Comp pics... check them out! not even a year late!

http://rides.webshots.com/album/548106081AwVTyq?start=48

[Mike Flitcraft]

Nice lookin car there. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[Robert_USM]

Here is a picture of the new University of Strathclyde Motorsport lightweight 1 piece alloys.

Enjoy.


http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa210/rneilsone/DSC00043.jpg

[colin s]

Sexy!

Seriously though, hows this years coming along?

[Robert_USM]

Actually here is a real preview of the 07 wheel assembly.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa210/rneilsone/DSCN0801.jpg

[Didier Beaudoin]

Wow... Do you have an idea of the flex of the wheel center during acceleration and cornering?

[Robert_USM]

I was not involved in the design of these so i am trusting the guys it is ok.

It is a good grade of aluminum to counteract the loss of material, i couldnt give you a number, but its 7000 series i think.

[Didier Beaudoin]

With a 7000 series aluminum, you'll get a better yield and ultimate strenght, but still the same Young modulus. Therefore, there should be no difference in stiffness. If some of your teammates know any numbers considering the wheel center flex, I'd be interested in seeing them.

[Jersey Tom]

Wow! That is ballsy thin section on that center. I'd love to hear numbers on toe and camber stiffness. Really, really important aspect of the wheel assembly. Lose heaps of grip otherwise.

[JuicedH22]

I hear nickel plating is a good way to add stiffness and grip....



lol, just playin with ya tom http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Gasperini]

Originally posted by Robert_USM:
Here is a picture of the new University of Strathclyde Motorsport lightweight 1 piece alloys.

Enjoy.



Originally posted by colin s:
Sexy!

Seriously though, hows this years coming along?

Nice wheels, and thanks for Colin. He's a helpful guy.

[epitrochoid]

Colin is quite handy eh. Wiring for Strath USM car to be finished tuesday, final assembly wednesday and shakedown thursday if all's well.

[chassisMAN!]

We just got our car going four days ago. seems to be running quite well apart from the occasional brake button falling off :S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJZsfNrr3Sk


DURMACH UOIT MOTORSPORTS

[BrendonD]

looking to be done in 30 hours.

[TomF]

Just to get the news started again for the Formula Student competition... Delft finished the car this weekend and I must say the new team did a great job, it looks marvelous and has the potential of being the best Delft FSAE car ever! We'll see in the coming weeks. Thumbs up for the guys that have been working so hard the last couple of weeks. Maybe there will be some photos soon, since the offcial roll out is due in 12 hrs...

[Peter]

The first pictures and a movie of the DUT07 are online.

www.DUTRacing.nl (http://www.DUTRacing.nl)

and here (http://www.autojunk.nl/clips/view/131155) for the movie.

Great car, I hope the can make it reliable and fine tune it for FSUK! 2004 Rematch against RMIT http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Peter
Delft FSUK04 FSG06

[Drew Price]

Rolling chassis Wednesday night, engine is running upstairs on a stand. This week will be running brake lines and gathering electricals, bolting on pedal assemblies and finishing the shifter, add lube inlet and drain to the diff carrier, grease up the CV's, and get it ready to drop the engine in.

Move pics here: NUMO Chassis (http://northwestern.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2112415&l=3968b&id=2413466)

http://photos-466.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v185/179/125/2413466/n2413466_33553920_3346.jpg



Best,
Drew

[flavorPacket]

great first car, Drew. I hope you guys do well at comp. How thick are your control arm gussets? They look pretty beefy.

[Grant Mahler]

I believe they are 3/16" 4130 steel.

They were fun to waterjet - right as the jet finishes cutting the contour they fall through the bed and you have to go digging in the bottom of the tank with a magnet.

[Drew Price]

Control arm gussets are 0.100" thick, and the pullrod clevis is welded to the gusset on the uppers, thus the extra thickness. I just kept it the same piece of material for the bottom to keep it to one waterjet program. Wishing now I had done shaped wrap-around gussets, but what are you gonna do? That's why this is a learning competition!

And yeah, we lost a lot of parts in the waterjet, and the magnet only retrieved about 2/3rds of them, so by the end we were cutting like 25%-30% additional yield on the small parts just to compensate for the ones that we knew the machine would eat!

Best,
Drew

[Biggy72]

How much steering angle are you guys going to be able to get out of the front uprights? It looks like the a-arms come in pretty close to the upright. I know we had all sorts of trouble with that on our first car.

[lporter]

Drew, what program do you use for waterjetting? I know that FlowPath/ FlowCut has a "tab" feature which leaves just enough material to hold the part to the rest of the sheet and allows it to be snapped out later. I believe most other programs have this feature as well, it's also possible to physically draw a tab on the part by leaving an open contour but that's a pain.

Also, I noticed that a lot of the bolts on your car are mounted nut-side up. I understand this is necessary for the uprights but on the a-arms and a few other areas it seems like the could be mounted bolt-head side up. This has two benefits: 1) if the nut comes loose gravity will still hold the bolt in place, and 2) the nut and exposed part of the bolt thread weigh more than the head and mounting them lower will decrease the CG, this may sound obsessive but every little bit helps.

Otherwise, I agree with Biggy72, you guys have a great first car. Good luck at competition.

[Drew Price]

Derek,

I just measured about 27 degrees of steer, and can clearance the corners of the LBJ pocket if necessary, but I think 27 with our 60.5" wheelbase will be plenty.

Levi,

They are mounted nut side up because the misalignment spacers on either side of the bearing within the tabs are not retained in the bolt hole, and aligning and assembling them is much easier by pushing the bolt through the bottom tab, putting in the bottom spacer, putting in the bearing, putting in and aligning the upper spacer. Once the bolt is in from the bottom, I can push it back out from the top with another bolt to re-orient it though. Many on my team find my views obsessive too, thanks very much for the input.

Our waterjet uses FlowPath/Cut, but are very old versions (runs Windows 95), and we have not successfully cut open shapes, the software freaks out, but I will investigate to see if it has that feature, thanks again!

Best,
Drew

[flavorPacket]

Originally posted by Drew Price:
Control arm gussets are 0.100" thick, and the pullrod clevis is welded to the gusset on the uppers, thus the extra thickness. ... Wishing now I had done shaped wrap-around gussets, but what are you gonna do?

Good reasoning, the judges will like it. But you'd be fine with .040"

[Biggy72]

Our first car was close to a 70" wheel base with about 11º steering angle to begin with. To say the least it did not work. We ended up just rebuilding the a-arms.

Anyway how's everyone elses cars coming along?? We've got our chassis most of the way done, just waiting on a little bit of front shock/bell crank design and we can finish it off.

Hopefully the last little bit of engine stuff will show up this week and we can get rolling on the intake. The header's almost all finished up. Now if I can just get those pistons out of wiseco... It's supposed to be moving along now though. Until we get the new engine finished up the turbo and all will be on the backup motor with a little less boost. I'm waiting on a couple little parts to show up so I can build a detonation can. We'll see how it works, I found some instructions online and they said it worked pretty well so...


Everything else is moving along at various rates, but I think we should be alright as long as everyone keeps working hard.

[Yellow Ranger]

How's everyone's Rolling Chassis Deadline coming?

http://sae.ou.edu/images/RC1.Jpg

http://sae.ou.edu/images/RC2.JPG

http://sae.ou.edu/images/RC3.JPG

http://sae.ou.edu/images/RC4.JPG

http://sae.ou.edu/images/RC5.JPG

[MikeDutsa]

Nice car Ranger. I dig the control arm layout.

Here is a pic of ours as it sits now.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh275/kaj4329/saeexplodeview007.jpg

[Teemu Ristelä]

Helsinki has been up and running for a week now and we believe that now we have enough time to make the new car reliable for FSAE2008.

The total building time was roughly six weeks. The first real test we had last wednesday (again indoors) was a huge succes. We´ll post some photos and videos shortly online.

Tämän viikonlopun oli itse asiassa tarkoitus olla lomaa kaikille tiimiläisille mutta alkoi jo runosuonta pullistelemaan. And so on...

Regards

[Drew Price]

Teemu, congrats! I know I am looking forward to seeing the photos of what you guys have come up with this year....

Ranger, just curious about the forward bracing for your front hoop, particularly in:

Rule 3.3.5.2 Front Hoop Bracing::
... The front hoop braces must be constructed such that they protect the driver's legs and should extend to the structure in front of the driver's feet. ...

Best,
Drew

[Biggy72]

Looks pretty similar to what they did last year. I'm pretty sure that the bracing to in front of the drivers feet does not need to be one piece, so as long as the drivers feet do not stick above the tubing in that area that design works just fine. We had some discussions about a similar design, but elected to go in a little different direction.

[Chris Allbee]

Its pretty much the same support structure that OU has run since 2005.

[Ecks]

Looks like a removable rear on the OU car. Where do you mount your rear forward LCA member?

When it comes to the semi-trailing arm rear suspension that has taken root as of late, I've heard some creative answers to the LCA mounting issue, everything from using the oil pan to "good question."

[D Collins Jr]

Ecks,
I'd answer with both "Good Question" and on the oil pan. The control arm is mounting to a bracket on the oil pan flange, both of which underwent significant design time.

Not to reveal too much information, but the Oklahoma car was up and running earlier this evening.

[Chris Allbee]

And congrats on that, but...those spacers on the previous cars weren't for show...I'd like to see some video once you have those installed and can give it a good thrashing!

[Yellow Ranger]

Congrats to Helsinki for being up and running already- I also noticed that Toledo was running as well.

We thought we could get away with the spacers for a 30 second video- and we did, but 30 seconds was pretty much the max.

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=o7RqZyAqUWA&r...ybTGZNgMds265ph-h0C0 (http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=o7RqZyAqUWA&rel=1&eurl=http%3A//sae.ou.edu/&iurl=http%3A//i.ytimg.com/vi/o7RqZyAqUWA/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskKVybTGZNgMds265ph-h0C0)

[consig]

Finished rolling chassis last week, planning on going to VIR and Michigan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/bigbrotherjohn/0259ps.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/bigbrotherjohn/0252ps.jpg

Also, we are looking to buy a set of wheels, I posted in the wanted forums. We are looking for 4x100mm 13" -32mm offset wheels that have better brake clearance than the Keizers. If any team has a used set that they might sell please let me know. See you all in michigan http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[flavorPacket]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Keizer makes some of the roomiest wheels out there. Good luck with your search.

BTW, where do you guys test? There's not exactly a ton of room downtown...

[fade]

try wicks for AN washers if the spacers are too much trouble

[consig]

Fade- thanks for the tip on Wicks, I haven't seen their website before, they have some pretty neat stuff. We have already made wheels spacers already though.

flavorPacket- we aren't having trouble with the overall diameter of our brake package but we just need a wheel whose mounting surface doesn't have quite a large diameter. Just from looking at pictures of some other wheels it seemed that most had mounting flanges that weren't much more than 5" in dia. Hopefully we can find something, but if not i guess wheels spacers aren't the end of the world.

[Horace]

Very nice car Consig, I'm jealous.

When do you guys plan on finishing the car? We're aiming for March 15th, but it seems like we will be slightly late.

I'll post some pics of our progress later.

[consig]

hey horace,
weve been working like mad for the past few weeks. planning on being finished and starting testing in about a month. Are you guys testing at shea stadium? we might be able to get time there or giants stadium, we were also thinking of testing at an airfield in Long Island. Maybe we can test together at some point.

[t21jj]

Making slow progress, a ground up redesign is not easy in less than a year. The car should still be done with time to spare but not as soon as I would have liked.

[The Bunker]

Here at Toledo, we got the car running Saturday night after a couple of hectic days, here is the Youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mExX8YK9LWs

Made for a great celebration though afterwards. Now only if Ohio had some decent weather!!

[t21jj]

Originally posted by The Bunker:
Here at Toledo, we got the car running Saturday night after a couple of hectic days, here is the Youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mExX8YK9LWs

Made for a great celebration though afterwards. Now only if Ohio had some decent weather!!

Car looks good, however how close are you guys to this rule?

FORMULA SAE RULES CLARIFICATION
3.3.4 ROLL HOOPS


In answering some recent questions from teams both in the USA and the UK, the Rules Committee has noticed a disturbing trend that has not been previously apparent.

It appears that a number of teams are moving their Main Hoop forward so that it is over the top of the driver's head (or conversely moving the driver rearwards so that his/her head is under the Main Hoop). While this is not specifically prohibited by the Rules, it does result in the back of the helmet being exposed rearwards of the Main Hoop, and in some instances non-compliance with the intent of the first sentence of Rule 3.3.4 which states that:
"The driver's head and hands must not contact the ground in any rollover attitude."�

The Rules Committee is well aware that most teams have finalized their designs for 2008 and are well into their build phase. However, it is appropriate that the above trend is stopped. Therefore, after a great deal of discussion among members of the Rules Committee, and taking all the relevant factors into account, we have decided that for the 2008 Formula SAE Competitions, the following Rules Clarification will apply:
"When seated normally and restrained by the Driver's Restraint System, a straight line drawn from the top of the Main Hoop to the base of the Main Hoop Bracing or other approved structure, must clear by 50.8 mm (2 inches) the helmet of all the team's drivers."�

There will be further discussion on this topic within the Rules Committee for 2009 and beyond.

[The Bunker]

Oh trust me, we are close, always have been. But they have always checked from the rear roll hoop to the rear of our chassis and we pass no problem. We got a rules clarification this year once we seen the post, and they said that the rear of the chassis is not an "approved structure".

So need less to say, they made us add 6lbs to our chassis by running redundant tubes from our roll hoop all the way to the back of our chassis. Really destroyed our sub 400lb goals we set for this year.

I just wish they would have made this decision well before december when our chassis was already manufactured. This way we could have adjusted our design in advance if they thought that was such a huge problem.

[Horace]

Consig,

We haven't been successful in out attempts in finding testing space. But we are sure that we'll be taking the car to some SCCA events.

[lporter]

So need less to say, they made us add 6lbs to our chassis by running redundant tubes from our roll hoop all the way to the back of our chassis. Really destroyed our sub 400lb goals we set for this year.

That seems like a lot of weight. The redundant tube spec is 1" x .049" wall, 6 lbs would be about 12 feet of tubing. We had to incorporate a similar design change and it only added around 2 lbs.

[Mark TMV]

6 pounds is nothing !
Just put your driver on a diet http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Michael Hart]

Wow...nice work having it running already. At Dartmouth, we have our chassis built and we're beginning fabrication on everything else with a goal of having the car on the ground running by March 1st...it's going to be an intense few weeks

[The Bunker]

lporter, the rule states that roll hoop bracing must be .063" tube, so we ran .065" tube. I looked in the rules and couldnt find any .049" tube specs for main hoop bracing unless I missed something?? If so Im all ears to eliminate some weight.

[lporter]

Just to make sure, this was the rule I was talking about:


3.3.5.1 Main Hoop Bracing: .....The attachment of the Main Hoop braces must not compromise the function of the
bracing i.e. the attachment method and supporting structure must be capable of
transmitting all loads from the Main Hoop into the Major Structure of the Frame
without failing. The braces must either transmit this load directly to the Major
Structure of the Frame, or through a properly triangulated structure. Bracing loads
must not be fed solely into the engine, transmission or differential, i.e. the bracing
must terminate at a node where there is a load path through the Primary Structure."

We sent the rules committee a picture of last year's car with labeled tubing sizes asking what should be changed and they replied that they wanted the load path from the main hoop brace attachment point back to the main hoop compromised of 1" x .049" tubing. Sorry for the confusion earlier. From the video I'm pretty sure I can see which tubes you guys had to add, might be worthwhile to check with the committee and see if they're overkill.

Congrats on a finished car by the way, you guys should have no problem doing as well as you did last year.

[Steve Yao]

Originally posted by lporter:
... the load path from the main hoop brace attachment point back to the main hoop...

This is sounding like your main roll hoop brace. Which would need to be 1.00" x 0.063". You mentioned "redundant tube spec". So this tube is in addition to your MRH brace(s)?

[lporter]

Steve,

Yes, the tube I was referring to is in addition to the MRH brace. I goes from the node where the MRH brace terminates back to the MRH itself.

[MikeDutsa]

Picked the car up from powdercoat today, now its out for paint!! chasis rang in at 30.6kg, after powdercoat. How is every one else doing?

[Biggy72]

I know powder coating looks nice and holds up well, but how much did it add weight wise?

[MikeDutsa]

250 grams or so. not much at all. Less than a cheseburger thats for sure.

[BamaJeff]

We're rolling as of tonight...driving by March 15th.
We'll be at VIR and West.


How's everyone else?

[Conor]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2071/2280497783_6c3dd3b782_b.jpg

Got the car rolling two nights ago. After failing miserabley in 2006, this is our second vehicle. We'll be attending the competition at MIS.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Lookin good Conor...that steering wheel angle might get uncomfortable, might want to think of a u-joint/apex joint to level it out some.

[Landreneau]

University of Pittsburgh should be running tonight!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/jtlandreneau/60.jpg

[Conor]

Originally posted by drivetrainUW-Platt:
Lookin good Conor...that steering wheel angle might get uncomfortable, might want to think of a u-joint/apex joint to level it out some.

Thanks Mike. The steering angle is that way because we built the car to accomodate some really tall people on our team. We threw the 95% thing out the window so we wouldn't excluded anyone who worked hard from driving the vehicle. I believe our tallest member is 6'3" and our shortest member is around 5'1". If you didn't notice, the pedal assembly is completely adjustable for that range. On another note, we put the car on scales today and weighed in at 420 with everything we have so far. We're shooting for 450-460 after fluids and other miscellaneous additions.

[BamaJeff]

Landreneau, I'd be concerned with the location of your gas filler neck. It looks like it's deep into the car, and it appears to be close to the exhaust.

Splashing gas onto the exhaust = bad news....sadly, I know first hand.

[Landreneau]

that's not its final location. the filler cap will be next to the shoulder bar.

Got the engine running an hour ago. first alley run tomorrow night!

[Conor]

Originally posted by Landreneau:
that's not its final location. the filler cap will be next to the shoulder bar.

Got the engine running an hour ago. first alley run tomorrow night!

Did you get the car on scales yet?

[Landreneau]

Here is a cheesy video we made for Goodyear of 60's first steps...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=625AdQ12Pr8

She weighs 430 wet at the moment, that'll definately go up...

[Teemu Ristelä]

As I promised earlier, some pictures of our latest creation are now online at www.formula.stadia.fi (http://www.formula.stadia.fi)

More or less funny faces included, enjoy!

[consig]

hey, you guys are looking good.

How do you do your carbon steering wheel, do you make two separate halves and then bond them together or are you able to make the entire wheel in one layup somehow?

[Pennyman]

Originally posted by Teemu Ristelä:
As I promised earlier, some pictures of our latest creation are now online at www.formula.stadia.fi (http://www.formula.stadia.fi)

More or less funny faces included, enjoy!

VERY impressive. Looks like an amazing machine. Goodluck with testing!

[Biggy72]

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF008_Making_of/album/slides/IMG_0108.html

What's in the giant box??

[benjo]

Originally posted by Teemu Ristelä:
As I promised earlier, some pictures of our latest creation are now online at www.formula.stadia.fi (http://www.formula.stadia.fi)

More or less funny faces included, enjoy!

Hey mate, I think you have some problems with your steering wheel design. Check out this link from the other forums...

http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/r...ring%20Wheel%20Shape (http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/rules/docProfile/100191/d20080227230622/No/3.4.6.1%20Steering%20Wheel%20Shape)

[flavorPacket]

Ah, nothing like another rules change 70 DAYS BEFORE COMPETITION...

[screwdriver]

I'd glue on a tiiiiny cf tube on the top and the bottom. That should do it.

[Mikko Ahola]

Originally posted by Biggy72:
http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF008_Making_of/album/slides/IMG_0108.html

What's in the giant box??

That is the prototype plenum. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

It came out so well that we are considering using it at comp also. the only downside of it is the weight of nearly 1ton...

[Biggy72]

So it's just big to get the internal volume you guys were looking for?

[Erich Ohlde]

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF008_Making_of/album/slides/IMG_5964.html
Is that pic on the dyno or the car? I'm pretty sure a pressurized stainless steel braided line with a hose clamp wont pass tech. I don't know exactly though

[Mikko Ahola]

Originally posted by Biggy72:
So it's just big to get the internal volume you guys were looking for?

Yep. And its openable because we have some changeable internal parts.


http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF008_Making_of/album/slides/IMG_5964.html
Is that pic on the dyno or the car? I'm pretty sure a pressurized stainless steel braided line with a hose clamp wont pass tech. I don't know exactly though


Erich Ohlde
Jayhawk Motorsports
Electrical & Data Acquistion

That is from the dyno. We sure know what the inspectors want... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Teemu Ristelä]

consig: Yes, the steering wheel is made from two halves, then bonded together. The mold can be seen at http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF008_Making_of/album/slides/IMG_5740.html

We´ll propably make thin cf ribs for the wheel to make it comply with the rules

[Mexellent]

Teemu,

What type of carbon did you use for your steering wheel?

[TMichaels]

Hey Guys,
what kind of part are you milling here: http://www.formula.stadia.fi/HPF008_Making_of/album/slides/IMG_1067.html

It looks like something to be put between cylinder head and crankcase.

Regards,

Tobi

P.S.: Have a look at our new pictures of the '08 Car: http://www.flickr.com/gp/23543277@N07/207n9q

[Erich Ohlde]

I was thinking it was for a flowbench.

[Drew Price]

Originally posted by jayhawk_electrical:
I was thinking it was for a flowbench.

With coolant passages?

The best we came up with was they were ditching the stock bottom end and building up their own rear transaxle, what with all the trans parts on the layout table in the few preceding photos.

Maybe new larger cylinder bores and a reduced stroke?

Best,
Drew

[Drew Price]

Tobi,

Dig your a-arm jig! Is there a core coming out of the balljoint carrier and into the tubes, or are they just butt welded to the flats on the carrier? Will there be a gusset?

Mine is below yours.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2056/2314471287_522fabdc7d.jpg?v=0


http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v79/179/125/2413466/n2413466_32097208_5549.jpg

[McMasteRacer]

^^^ awesome welding, that takes some serious skill

[ben]

Originally posted by Drew Price:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jayhawk_electrical:
I was thinking it was for a flowbench.

With coolant passages?

The best we came up with was they were ditching the stock bottom end and building up their own rear transaxle, what with all the trans parts on the layout table in the few preceding photos.

Maybe new larger cylinder bores and a reduced stroke?

Best,
Drew </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They run a turbo, I'm guessing a spacer to reduce compression ratio.

Ben

[BamaJeff]

Originally posted by ben:

They run a turbo, I'm guessing a spacer to reduce compression ratio.

Ben

As of last year, they were naturally aspirated. I had a pretty lengthy discussion with one of their members in Detroit last year about why they chose to drop the turbo.

[Mikko Ahola]

Wow! Lots of wondering about a randomly snapped picture...

I would say that the best guess will be rewarded!

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[C.Zinke]

Originally posted by Drew Price:
Tobi,

Dig your a-arm jig! Is there a core coming out of the balljoint carrier and into the tubes, or are they just butt welded to the flats on the carrier? Will there be a gusset?

Mine is below yours.


Hi there is no core, only the flat surface. This is the front lower a-arm which uses a comlex knode at the end. The other a-arms look like yours. We don not add gussets. I also like to add that i am really impressed by your weld!

[MikeDutsa]

Update,

08 car is race ready this weekend! lots of time for driver training. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://roadrunner-sae.com/3.JPG

[Grant Mahler]

The plate with 4 holes is usually referred to as a torque plate, though there are other names. It is there to keep the cylinder walls perfectly round, without use of the head. This way you can hone the block, or install rings, or whatever you want without using the actual head.

[ad]

http://racing.tugraz.at/typo3temp/pics/2008_02_07_ClaudeRouelleSeminarinTallinn23_90d8e63 ba4.jpg

HPF08???

[TMichaels]

Originally posted by Grant Mahler:
The plate with 4 holes is usually referred to as a torque plate, though there are other names. It is there to keep the cylinder walls perfectly round, without use of the head. This way you can hone the block, or install rings, or whatever you want without using the actual head.

It wouldn't have cooling passages and a hole for the valvetrain chain, if it is only used for keeping the cylinder walls round. The reduced compression sounds possible, but since they do not run a turbo anymore, why should they reduce the compression ratio? Please Mikko, tell us http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,

Tobi

[TG]

Originally posted by TMichaels:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grant Mahler:
The plate with 4 holes is usually referred to as a torque plate, though there are other names. It is there to keep the cylinder walls perfectly round, without use of the head. This way you can hone the block, or install rings, or whatever you want without using the actual head.

It wouldn't have cooling passages and a hole for the valvetrain chain, if it is only used for keeping the cylinder walls round. The reduced compression sounds possible, but since they do not run a turbo anymore, why should they reduce the compression ratio? Please Mikko, tell us http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,

Tobi </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take a stab at this... I do think it is a torque plate as well. When you are boring an engine, you want to make sure the cylinder walls are round when at operational temperature. I'm guessing the other side of the plate is solid except for the cylinders and the operation they are running in the pic is to tap into the side to run in a coolant line. When they are boring, they will pump in hot coolant to raise the temperature of the block to operational temperatures. Not only does the torque plate simulate the stiffness of the head on the block (which explains the valve train opening), but it also closes up the coolant sleeve around the cylinders.

[Mikko Ahola]

Originally posted by TG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TMichaels:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grant Mahler:
The plate with 4 holes is usually referred to as a torque plate, though there are other names. It is there to keep the cylinder walls perfectly round, without use of the head. This way you can hone the block, or install rings, or whatever you want without using the actual head.

It wouldn't have cooling passages and a hole for the valvetrain chain, if it is only used for keeping the cylinder walls round. The reduced compression sounds possible, but since they do not run a turbo anymore, why should they reduce the compression ratio? Please Mikko, tell us http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,

Tobi </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take a stab at this... I do think it is a torque plate as well. When you are boring an engine, you want to make sure the cylinder walls are round when at operational temperature. I'm guessing the other side of the plate is solid except for the cylinders and the operation they are running in the pic is to tap into the side to run in a coolant line. When they are boring, they will pump in hot coolant to raise the temperature of the block to operational temperatures. Not only does the torque plate simulate the stiffness of the head on the block (which explains the valve train opening), but it also closes up the coolant sleeve around the cylinders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a pretty good theory and would make sense if we were to bore or hone our block. But we aren´t... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Should I already tell you whats it all about...Or just keep you guessing.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[TMichaels]

I think we need a new thread with the title "Guess what the function of this part is". Every team can post pictures of parts and all the others can try to figure out what it does http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,

Tobi

[Horace]

I'll have better photos later, but for now...

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2309/img00034ck3.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00034ck3.jpg)

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8863/img00036wp2.th.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00036wp2.jpg)

[TMichaels]

Your car looks like a DeLorean with that shiny bodywork http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,

Tobi

[Dennis Seichter]

Horace, I'm afraid that's a proper example of rod ends in bending.. (http://www.formulastudent.de/academy/pats-corner/advice-details/article/pats-column-rod-ends-in-bending/)

The Judges don't like it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Yellow Ranger]

University of Oklahoma just unveilied it's 2008 car...

wes- you do it, your better at this than me

[Wesley]

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8412/wowcrimsonredyp8.jpg

[Horace]

Yeah, your right. We decided to do only spherical bearings on the bottom b/c our machining experience back then was low and it took us a while to make the A-arms. Next year though, we'll be better, I hope

[Biggy72]

Is anyone else working like crazy this week with spring break at some schools? The last of us left today, but over the weekend was pretty productive. We had the guy that runs the shop next door to ours tell us to go get some sleep at 6 AM on Sunday morning.... I don't know what was more odd us still being there, or him heading to the shop at 6 AM.

[Erich Ohlde]

Hey OU guys. where is the pirate flag?

[John Grego]

The OU car looks great. There appears to be a skull and cross bones on the right side of the front wing...not quite a flag....

Our car is "complete". Off to paint this week and back for re-assembly by next Friday.

[Erich Ohlde]

crap. how did i miss that! its ok OU... you may continue.

[Wesley]

I was pleased, our unveiling was outside and it was 25ºF. Two cranks and it lit, hoooray cold-start!

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

Ooooh, shiny. I'm looking forward to seeing it in Fontana. In the mean time, post more pictures!

And speaking of the side of the wing, can we expect another ebay auction for advertising space? I got a couple hundred bucks says it's all about Matt!

[VFR750R]

Originally posted by Mikko Ahola:

That is a pretty good theory and would make sense if we were to bore or hone our block. But we aren´t... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Should I already tell you whats it all about...Or just keep you guessing.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think it's a bottom end spacer so they can try a longer connecting rod, not for reducing compression. Restrictor plate engines typically run better with longer rods.

[Sooner_Electrical]

OU looking good now it is time to focus on the real competition

http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/a...ules_Rev2_23JA08.doc (http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/announcements/docProfile/100113/d20080129201350/No/Push%20Bar%20Announce_Rules_Rev2_23JA08.doc)

Don't get me wrong last years performance in Push-Barology was top notch but you can't let that go to your head. Car looks good.

Keep up the good work!

[kaj4329]

Here is what our car looks like right now. Good looking car Wesley.
http://roadrunner-sae.com/11.JPG
Kyle
UTSA FSAE
www.roadrunner-sae.com (http://www.roadrunner-sae.com)

[Brian S]

With all this talk of rich mahogany we decided to give it a try, but couldn't afford it, so we had to go with old trailer deck plywood instead...

http://sae.wsu.edu/media/0708car/08-03-10/images/IMG_3310.jpg

[Sooner_Electrical]

Looking good Washington State University, I assume the tongue depressors and hot glue will be making up the bulk of the frame? You also have the helmet problem solved which is always tricky.

[Drew Price]

It was a really nice sunny day this afternoon in Chicago, so we took the opportunity to take the car outside for the first time and get some nice pictures for the program.


http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v214/179/125/2413466/n2413466_33779069_1554.jpg



Gallery 1 (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2119042&l=76c5d&id=2413466)

Gallery 2 (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2119045&l=cce50&id=2413466)


Best,
Drew

[TMichaels]

Hey Mikko,
what about the truth about the part I saw on the picture?

Regards,

Tobi

[pablo180]

Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:
Ooooh, shiny. I'm looking forward to seeing it in Fontana. In the mean time, post more pictures!

And speaking of the side of the wing, can we expect another ebay auction for advertising space? I got a couple hundred bucks says it's all about Matt!

Hello OU!

Is the idea of its all about Pablo and Rachel out the window?

The car looks really good.

Pablo
07' CSUN FSAE Project Manager

[Conor]

Originally posted by Drew Price:
It was a really nice sunny day this afternoon in Chicago, so we took the opportunity to take the car outside for the first time and get some nice pictures for the program.

Best,
Drew

Looks good Drew. Any weights yet?

[Yellow Ranger]

CSUN!! Pablo, I almost forgot- thanks for reminding us. What exactly do you guys want- "It's all about Pablo and Rachel" still, or do you guys want a logo?

We're definitely putting you guys up there, you saved our ass last year.

[Drew Price]

Conor,

It's looking something around 450-460lbs wet. I haven't had a chance to get a set of scales all with equalized heights though.

I meant to write to you when your first pics went up how similar some of the elements of our cars look, you guys are coming along really nicely too. Any updates?

Best,
Drew

[Kyle Walther]

Bobby!
speaking more about rich mahogany

You've got to post of pic of the steering wheel! its kind of a big deal..

and E-rich sorry but i stole the Flag .. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

if you really want it you can come get it.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[C.Zinke]

Hi! We plan to attend FS UK and FSG so we hope to get the car done next weekend. We just finished the frame this week and it will be coated monday. We try to post some pictures on our website soon.

I like to show you my most favorite part of the suspension, the rear upright. It is done by sand casting and is 596g (1.31 lbs).


http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2251/p1010315yl3.jpg

[flavorPacket]

beautiful, C zinke. That's Mg, right? What dimensional accuracy did you achieve with the sand casting?

I also had uprights cast this year, but not with sand, and not from magnesium. We are around +/- .25mm over 220mm. Also, given the massive disparity in coefficients of thermal expansion between bearing steel and Mg, how will you determine your bearing preload?

Also, who made your patterns?

[C.Zinke]

Thanks! The upright is aluminium. Wallthickness is 3,5mm. I think our tolerances are a bit higher than 1mm over 200mm. We found a company in 2007 that is dedicated to produce patterns for sandcasting. Since then they do the patterns for the uprights and the oilpan. I like this casting method because it gives me the opportunity to do hollow structures like the upright. This is stiff and light ;o).

Do you have pictures of your upright?

[R/TErnie]

Originally posted by VFR750R:
I think it's a bottom end spacer so they can try a longer connecting rod, not for reducing compression. Restrictor plate engines typically run better with longer rods.

I'm going to put my money on a spacer as well. Good call.

[flavorPacket]

Originally posted by C.Zinke:
Thanks! The upright is aluminium. Wallthickness is 3,5mm. I think our tolerances are a bit higher than 1mm over 200mm. We found a company in 2007 that is dedicated to produce patterns for sandcasting. Since then they do the patterns for the uprights and the oilpan. I like this casting method because it gives me the opportunity to do hollow structures like the upright. This is stiff and light ;o).

Do you have pictures of your upright?

Yes, I do have pictures.

1mm over 200 on a sand casting is very good! I was originally planning to do a Mg sand casting, but decided not to because of concerns with wheel bearing fit. In the end, we are investment casting them out of 17-4-PH steel using patterns that we 3D-printed in-house.

How were you patterns made? RP, machining, etc?

[TMichaels]

Hey guys,
I just want to mention that we migrated our photo gallery from Flickr to our homepage. From now on, you will find our pictures at http://www.lionsracing.de/component/option,com_ponygall...ry/catid,83/lang,de/ (http://www.lionsracing.de/component/option,com_ponygallery/Itemid,32/func,viewcategory/catid,83/lang,de/)

I am still transferring pictures and we will continue to update the gallery every 2 or 3 days, so check back regularly if you are interested in our progress.

Regards,

Tobi

[fade]

Originally posted by Wesley:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8412/wowcrimsonredyp8.jpg

ooh shiny! any more pics?

[JamesWolak]

Originally posted by VFR750R:

I think it's a bottom end spacer so they can try a longer connecting rod, not for reducing compression. Restrictor plate engines typically run better with longer rods.

I am not an R6 guy but I don't see them running it in any picture of the motor. Making me still think its some sort of torque plate.

[pablo180]

Originally posted by Yellow Ranger:
CSUN!! Pablo, I almost forgot- thanks for reminding us. What exactly do you guys want- "It's all about Pablo and Rachel" still, or do you guys want a logo?

We're definitely putting you guys up there, you saved our ass last year.

We're just glad we were able to help out. Our advisor said it best...its better to race them on the track and not on the bench.

Pablo and Rachel would be totally awesome. Its gonna be cool to see the comp from a spectators point of view.

Best of luck to you guys.

Pablo

[Yellow Ranger]

As per request for more pictures and the Mahogany wheel:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/alle2911/IMG_9236_SMALL.jpg

Pablo- good luck and we'll see you at West!

[screwdriver]

LOL
Classy.
Now that's something you don't mind being impaled on.

[BrendonD]

Wow, I must say that dash and steering wheel are pretty bitchin' but will you be able to one-up yourselves and create a leather-bound book to serve as the owner's manual?

[duckei]

Beautiful car Oklahoma. I'm also liking the rich Ma-ha-gony.

[Michael Hart]

Beautiful cars everyone...we fired our engine tonight and hopefully (knock on wood, such as that rich mahogany) she'll take her first steps under power in the next day or so...

[fade]

Nice job! a cockpit fit for a supercar. will there be a burled walnut option for the pedals and suede seating? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Also how do you shift?
http://www.pagani-automobili.de/zonda-f/pagani-zonda-f-pic10.jpg

[Mike Sadie]

looks like mechanically actuated by paddles

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

Originally posted by Mike Sadie:
looks like mechanically actuated by paddles

The paddles are actually the clutch. the shifter buttons are integrated into the back of the steering wheel. It has the classic look of rich mahogany with the high tech touch of integrated electronics. Truly a luxury racecar for the discerning and refined engineering student.

[Erich Ohlde]

Originally posted by Kyle Walther:
Bobby!
speaking more about rich mahogany

You've got to post of pic of the steering wheel! its kind of a big deal..

and E-rich sorry but i stole the Flag .. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

if you really want it you can come get it.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wait...What flag? you stole the OU pirate flag?

[Kyle Walther]

yeah the orignal you bought for OU, from detroit 06.. its hanging above the door of my flat

[D Collins Jr]

Don't worry Erich, OU will have a black flag in Salina.

[Mikko Ahola]

First outdoor tests done yesterday @ -2deg Celsius. Was a bit slippery...

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/en/HPF008_outdoor.htm

[TMichaels]

Hey Mikko,
what the part riddle?

Regards,
Tobi

[Mikko Ahola]

Originally posted by TMichaels:
Hey Mikko,
what the part riddle?

Regards,
Tobi

I think I´m not giving it quite yet. Maybe few more guesses... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

Originally posted by Mikko Ahola:
I think I´m not giving it quite yet. Maybe few more guesses... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Is it a cup holder?

[Mike Hart]

Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mikko Ahola:
I think I´m not giving it quite yet. Maybe few more guesses... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Is it a cup holder? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haha. Best reply so far, although must be designed for American sized cups! Could also be an incredibly exclusive wine rack....

[VFR750R]

Originally posted by Mikko Ahola:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TMichaels:
Hey Mikko,
what the part riddle?

Regards,
Tobi

I think I´m not giving it quite yet. Maybe few more guesses... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you give us another view or a hint?

[exFSAE]

Originally posted by Yellow Ranger:
As per request for more pictures and the Mahogany wheel:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/alle2911/IMG_9236_SMALL.jpg

Pablo- good luck and we'll see you at West!

That is REALLY, really cool!!

[jpusb]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif what a steering wheel man!

Hey talking about steering wheels. Anyone from UWM that could tell me how are they doing with the rapid prototyped steering wheel?

[benjo]

Loving the mahogany!!! +1 for originality! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[1975BMW2002]

That wheel is so sweet looking.

Something to play up on the marketing presentation. Something to try to direct attention away from on the design competition. It provides true motivation not to crash. Splintered wood from a shattered steering wheel is dangerous. Although, if the wheel is destroyed, splintered wood is likely the least of your worries. I'd present it that way if the judges remark on the safety aspect. also, the metal frame would help keep it together.

Truly slick.

[lporter]

Great looking car OU, any idea on the weight? Or are you going to make us guess like Helsinki?

Best of luck this year, after East and West '07 you guys definitely deserve a solid finish, hopefully as nice as the one on your steering wheel http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

[Didier Beaudoin]

http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums/shooting_2008/IMG_1585.sized.jpg
http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums/shooting_2008/IMG_1542.sized.jpg
http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums/essais_virginie_08/CRW_5612.sized.jpg
http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums/essais_virginie_08/CRW_5618.sized.jpg
http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums/essais_virginie_08/CRW_5565.sized.jpg
http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums/essais_virginie_08/CRW_5706.sized.jpg

More pictures here. (http://www.etudiants.polymtl.ca/fsae/gallery/albums.php)

Video from our testing week in Virginia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi0DM4_X3N8)
Thanks to Virginia Tech for hosting our testing week! We couldn't ask for a better welcome.

We are currently working on a few things while we wait for the snow to melt and the temperatures to drop to continue with our testing program. The car has shown great promises, and we think we'll be able to challenge for a good position at the competitions.

See you in Detroit and California!

[Biggy72]

I see a festo sticker on the side of your car. Do you guys actually use any of their parts anywhere? We are trying to use one of their fluidic muscles for our senior design project. It's sorting potatoes... but if everything works it will still be pretty cool.

[Didier Beaudoin]

Originally posted by Biggy72:
I see a festo sticker on the side of your car. Do you guys actually use any of their parts anywhere? We are trying to use one of their fluidic muscles for our senior design project. It's sorting potatoes... but if everything works it will still be pretty cool.

Yeah, we use their pistons and valves for our pneumatic shifter.

[Tech Guy]

Didier,
Nice clean looking car. Aprilia engine, too? But from the photo it looks as though your intake system is outside the envelope from the top of the main hoop to the rear tires. You should check it now and change it if necessary. Having the tech inspectors make you change it at the event is no fun.

[John Valerio]

didier,
great looking car. its good to see you guys are coming to michigan, and that you're still using those dampers...we'll have to compare notes at competition.

John Valerio
Queen's FSAE

[Didier Beaudoin]

Originally posted by Tech Guy:
Didier,
Nice clean looking car. Aprilia engine, too? But from the photo it looks as though your intake system is outside the envelope from the top of the main hoop to the rear tires. You should check it now and change it if necessary. Having the tech inspectors make you change it at the event is no fun.

Yes, Aprilia engine. I agree it looks like the intake is out of the envelope from the picture, but it is in fact just inside. Don't worry, we have already checked this. Thanks for the heads up anyway.


Originally posted by John Valerio:
didier,
great looking car. its good to see you guys are coming to michigan, and that you're still using those dampers...we'll have to compare notes at competition.

We'll sure do! Our homemade data acquisition is finally working and we are going to use 4 linear pots as well as 12 IR temperature sensors. Should be an interesting bunch of data...

Thanks for the nice comments!

[scott_rfr]

Back to the Helsinki Car

I think its a spacer to increase deck height to change rod to stroke ratio.

[Mike Hart]

Great looking car guys http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Mr Johann Vegas]

Re: scott_rfr's post (since it was me in the office telling him to put it up, without having read the thread), I agree with VFR750R (how can I ever disagree...). Looks like they are trying to increase the rod/stroke ratio. I feel silly now for not having read all the posts before. However, for that engine (non-removable bores/cylinders), it would sit on top of the existing bore, which I cannot recall seeing before. If you guys are pushing that hard to gain efficiency points, kudos, that is intense.

[VFR750R]

Yeah i had saw that the cylinders were non removable after i posted. I'm hoping i'm still right, just that the're planning on sleeving the assembly.

Along the same lines, its possible they're making room for more stroke, keeping the stock rods and shrinking the bore to keep displacement on target. Those almost square bore/stroke FZR's traditionally do very well in an fsae car.

Either way, it's alot of work to get the 1-2hp's hiding in there.

[John Grego]

Our car is up and running!

Take a look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JJGdu_7myo

[HenningO]

Originally posted by John Grego:
Our car is up and running!


Were is the fire suit.... seriously, accidents happen, one of our guys ended up with 2nd degree burns on 15% of his body...

[Mike Hart]

Originally posted by HenningO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Grego:
Our car is up and running!


Were is the fire suit.... seriously, accidents happen, one of our guys ended up with 2nd degree burns on 15% of his body... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I was going to ask that. There have been a number of accidents involving fire in FSAE, and it really isn't something to be messed with. I have to say I'd like to see the rules changed to disallow non fireproof helmets. Really, they should be the same as the FIA rules because even a 3 layer Nomex suit will only protect you for a minute or so of exposure. As it is at the moment, you'd still get pretty badly burned, hence why I wear a Nomex balaclava, SA2005 rated helmet and 2 layer overalls at the very least.

It's really really not worth messing with...especially for a first time run when things like fuel lines could be loose!

[Pennyman]

BTW, the car looks awesome. I'm glad it didn't explode. Good luck in the tuning and driver training phase.

[John Grego]

Maybe in hindsight a fire suit should have been used. I assure you that we use them, and a balaclava, every time we take the car out to the track. The car putted around for 20 seconds and we put it back in the garage. Not really an excuse though...

[Maverik]

Little sneak peak... http://images.townnews.com/alligator.org/content/articles/2008/03/24/news/photo/080324_feat1.jpg

[RiNaZ]

Im a big fan of UF car ... they are no 1 in my 'non-composite' list!!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Mike Hart]

Originally posted by John Grego:
Maybe in hindsight a fire suit should have been used. I assure you that we use them, and a balaclava, every time we take the car out to the track. The car putted around for 20 seconds and we put it back in the garage. Not really an excuse though...

I wasn't telling you off or anything :P Some people do get a little over zealous about safety, failing to step back and think about the fact they're doing motorsport, which is fun purely because it's a bit risky! It would be typical though, that the 20s you run a car with no firesuit it catches fire and someone gets hurt. Crashing the car is largely up to the driver....sadly catching fire isn't!

[exFSAE]

Don't take fire safety lightly. I have seen at least one car at competition go up in flames after throwing a rod and dousing the headers in oil.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

Originally posted by exFSAE:
Don't take fire safety lightly. I have seen at least one car at competition go up in flames after throwing a rod and dousing the headers in oil.

...leaving third degree burns all over our hopes and dreams.

[Biggy72]

And nobody gets mad at Florida for not having a crash attenuator?? Has anyone actually ever crashed their car with one on and had it take some of the force from the impact? If so did it actually hold up?

[ad]

Originally posted by Biggy72:
And nobody gets mad at Florida for not having a crash attenuator?? Has anyone actually ever crashed their car with one on and had it take some of the force from the impact? If so did it actually hold up?

Wollongong and Newcastle come to mind. Both crashed into normal road barriers. However where Wollongong's crash was into the plastic water filled barriers (without water) Newcastle took on the metal equivalent.

Wollongong hit inbetween the joint of two barriers and the crash structure reduced damage to the chassis, however not completely.

Newcastle hit dead on, however it was a pity the barriers used were designed for road cars with higher ride height, as the impact point was at the top of the front bulkhead, mostly missing the attenuator. Not Newcasltes fault mind you.

[TMichaels]

Every team should consider using HANS since, in my opinion, it does much more for your safety than the impact attenuator in a frontal impact.

Regards,

Tobi

[Maverik]

Not to be rude, but this topic is about vehicle progress. I didn't post a picture of our car for it's lack of an impact attenuator to be criticized. If you want to have a safety topic, make it a new post, keep this one on vehicle status. Thanks rinaz for the kind words.

[Biggy72]

Honestly I don't care. I was just giving you a hard time from all of the other stuff in this thread. I don't think an impact attenuator will actually help much in most impacts and I said something more to make fun of the rules than anything else.

[Mike Hart]

Originally posted by Biggy72:
Honestly I don't care. I was just giving you a hard time from all of the other stuff in this thread. I don't think an impact attenuator will actually help much in most impacts and I said something more to make fun of the rules than anything else.

Quite. It would quite blatantly do very little in the event of a crash!

[Wesley]

Originally posted by lporter:
Great looking car OU, any idea on the weight? Or are you going to make us guess like Helsinki?

She's sort of fat right now, we're putting her on a diet before competition, unless she keeps slipping twinkies while alone in the shop.

http://photos-773.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v197/181/98/9619773/n9619773_36409889_7333.jpg
http://photos-773.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v197/181/98/9619773/n9619773_36409888_7074.jpg

[fade]

are the inboard steering rod ends high misalignment?

[Chris Allbee]

They could always turn the clevis 90 deg. if they're not...Guys?

[Yellow Ranger]

not that high of misalignment- opps

[Chris Allbee]

I hate to burst anyone's bubble...but do you guys have a headrest on that thing?

[D Collins Jr]

Chris,
That's a long and complicated story, that will be much closer to ending this weekend.

And no, we don't (yet).

[TMichaels]

We just began to assemble our steering wheel. The picture shows it right after it was removed from the mould. It feels very good as the gripform was done by scanning clay which was grabbed by the driver before.
http://www.lionsracing.de/images/stories/bildergalerie/saison_2008_lr08_fahrwerk_einzelteile_lenkung_008_ 1_20080403_1981614591.jpg
And we began to assemble the car of course:
http://www.lionsracing.de/images/stories/bildergalerie/saison_2008_lr08_montage_heck_010_4_20080323_15434 82704.jpg
More pictures can be found at www.lionsracing.de/photos (http://www.lionsracing.de/photos)

Regards,

Tobi

[RiNaZ]

hi toby, is the steering wheel a one piece part? or did you do it in two halves and glue them together? Im trying to think of a good way in making a one piece part. But im trying to see if there is a better way than just putting foam in between the two halves mold.

[Mike Sadie]

Rinaz, You can see the seam between the two halves of the wheel. This is probably the most professional way to do it, but can become rather difficult if the bonding joggle is part of one half.

If I understand you correctly, you want to use female molds with a solid foam core. This wont work well because you can't apply pressure to flatten the carbon and evacuate excess resin. As you may know, if you lay up on the core alone and vacuum bag the wheel, the exterior finish will need a good amount of work to look/feel good.

If you don't mind doing the exterior work (building up the surface with resin/gelcoat and a ton of careful sanding), check out Aquapour. It is a ceramic based water soluble molding material. You pour it into your female molds, then layup on the hardened male mold. The mold material can then be dissolved and washed out through a small hole in the wheel. We just got some and are trying it out on our new intake runners. It looks pretty promising. Below is the link to Aquapour's website.

http://www.acrtucson.com/products/Aquapour/index.htm

[consig]

See you all in Virginia

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/bigbrotherjohn/front-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/bigbrotherjohn/rear-1.jpg

[TMichaels]

Originally posted by RiNaZ:
hi toby, is the steering wheel a one piece part? or did you do it in two halves and glue them together? Im trying to think of a good way in making a one piece part. But im trying to see if there is a better way than just putting foam in between the two halves mold.

Hi Rinaz,
Mike is right, it is a two piece part and since this method took a lot of time until it worked I would not try to make it in a more complicated way. It is stiff like hell and has a nice finish, why try harder?

@consig: Looks good! Is the tank in the back around the rear axle a fuel tank? Have you considered balancing problems when the tank looses weight during endurance?

Regards,

Tobi

[RiNaZ]

I used to work for customers who dont like any seams at all. And what i did was to do the traditional lay-up and glue them together. And then i would sand the seam off and buff them with whatever compound i had at the time. You can still see the seam, but it's not that fairly obvious. So i was just thinking if there are other method where you can build a one piece part w/out having seams showing. But thanks for the tips, and that aquapour seems like a good product, i wonder how much a gallon cost.

[fade]

interesting fuel tank location. is that for more rear weight bias? Also does the filler neck extend past the roll hoop - tire tangent plane?

[screwdriver]

Tobi, what do you plan about the e/e inside the steering wheel? Just put them in and glue the two halfes together?

If so, then best of luck. We had our dear problems with that last year.

[Corey H]

Originally posted by TMichaels:
We just began to assemble our steering wheel. The picture shows it right after it was removed from the mould. It feels very good as the gripform was done by scanning clay which was grabbed by the driver before.
http://www.lionsracing.de/images/stories/bildergalerie/saison_2008_lr08_fahrwerk_einzelteile_lenkung_008_ 1_20080403_1981614591.jpg


I am surprised no one else mentioned this about your wheel since it was brought up once already in this topic, but you should check out this rule before finishing that steering wheel:

http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/r...ring%20Wheel%20Shape (http://www.formulasae.org/forums/formula/dispatch.cgi/rules/docProfile/100191/d20080227230622/No/3.4.6.1%20Steering%20Wheel%20Shape)

[TMichaels]

@Rinaz: I talked to the guy who built the wheel. I was wrong, the steering wheel is a one piece part and not glued together in the middle. The seam is not really a seam. It looks like a seam, because the mould is divided in two parts and a bit of the resin ran in it. His original comment was: "Everybody can do it in two parts, but the stiffness is increased very much by building it as a one piece part."

@screwdriver: Since it is not a two piece part the electronics can not be put inside before glueing it together. We will cut a hole in the front and screw the pcb to a transparent plexiglas plate which will then be mounted on the wheel to close the hole. Since we got a lion with red led eyes on the pcb it should look really nice. Of which kind were your problems?

@CoreyH: Thanks for the hint. We have already thought about the mentioned rule and we will ask the committee to approve our steering wheel before scrutineering. But there is not really a concave section. The picture perspective may baffle you a bit. If they do not approve it, we will build a new mould and a new steering wheel http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,

Tobi

[screwdriver]

Well obviously if you glue the two halves together, as soon as anything went wrong with the electronics, we had to machine the case open. And clean everything afterwards.
Surprisingly the electronics survived all the treatment and still work now.

We've learned a lot of important lessons. As our steering wheel is currently being made, I'm looking forward to assemble it and see how good of a job we've done planing it.

[TMichaels]

Just use a mockup for the steering wheel. Build the frontplate of the steering wheel and hook up a canalyzer or whatever to the electronics to simulate the rest of the car. Then you can do HIL-Tests with the electronics and the chance that anything does not function as it should after glueing the steering wheel together will decrease extremely.

Regards,

Tobi

[woodstock]

Just a quick question for guys from Lions.
What is that brown - ish stuff you used to get such a good finish on your bodywork moulds. We used polyfiller which gives quite good results but is very time consuming and messy as it manages to cover the whole workshop in a fine layer of dust.
Thanks

[screwdriver]

The software or the controller itself were no issues at all. All problems were of electrical or mechanical nature. E.g. the plug, connecting the steering wheel and the car broke, so we had to swap it. All the problems were eventually fixed and in Hockenheim everything in the steering wheel worked. Since writing a vehicle-can-bus simulator was quite mandatory when we developed our telemetry system, we could use that to test the steering wheel as well. We also had two fully functional sets of electronics available.

In fact the halves were only glued together for three occasions: the Rollout, Hockenheim and after Australia when it was clear that we wouldn't use it anymore. The other times we either taped the two halves together or used a different steering wheel altogether. For the Australian event, we swapped it for a momo wheel, because our sculptured grips only fitted one of our drivers and mounted the electronics in a box, fixed it on the steering rack and used it as a dashboard.

For 2008 we've changed a lot of the mechanics compared to last season. Technically you could say we have a one-piece steering wheel now, but it's a lot simpler than what you guys are doing. The electronics follow the same concept as last year and we took care to be able to use the updated software with minimal changes in the 2007 car as well. I'll post pictures of the new wheel as soon as I've got it up and running.

[alumasteel]

Miami University got it's 2nd year car on wheels and tires for the first time tonight. We're pushing to have it running in a few weeks.

Pictures here: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=7706953&aid=2184638

[vreihen]

Originally posted by woodstock:
Just a quick question for guys from Lions.
What is that brown - ish stuff you used to get such a good finish on your bodywork moulds. We used polyfiller which gives quite good results but is very time consuming and messy as it manages to cover the whole workshop in a fine layer of dust.

In case they don't have time to respond, the guy who made their plugs/molds posted the complete description of the manufacturing process here:

http://www.racingcomposites.net/unt?id=1146

They used Bondo among other things to make the plugs, so you probably won't find any secret shortcuts if that's what you were looking for.....

[TMichaels]

Thanks vreihen, that is indeed his post http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some more eyecandy for you: Our new dry sump oil pan:
http://www.lionsracing.de/images/stories/bildergalerie/saison_2008_lr08_motor_einzelteile_013_2_20080408_ 1419107637.jpg

Regards,

Tobi

[blister]

Hey Tobi,

How "thick" is this plate? I mean how thick from the lowest engine point to the lowest dry sump point? We also run a Dry Sump on a GSXR600.

[TMichaels]

Hi blister,
the total height of the oil pan is 12mm. The difference between the lowest non-oilpan-point and the oilpan is 0mm as the oil cooler is the lowest part by 12mm, when the oilpan is removed. Thats why we did everything to have a maximum oilpan height of 12mm. With this new oilpan we are able to lower the engine by approx. 35mm compared to our last years car LR07.

The biggest advantage is, that we do not have to mill, drill or do whatever on the crankcase. It is an addon part which can easily be fitted to any unmodified stock GSX-R600 engine.

What kind of system will you use?

Regards,

Tobi

[blister]

We will use a milled dry sump plate in combination with a bought dry sump pump (mounted to the original water pump shaft). Last year we used a bought dry sump plate which was 30mm thick. This years plate is 25mm thick and has structural functions. Limitating factor for reducing height were the oil line pickups, which had to have a certain diameter; but i see that with a cast dry sump plate it`s easier to shift the pickup points a little bit upwards.

I didn`t quite understand why one would have to modify the crankcase for fitting a dry sump plate?

Cheers

[TMichaels]

Hi blister,
our plate does also have structural functions. It is screwed to the frame at two points.

I saw several teams which have just put a steel or aluminium plate under their engine and drilled holes in their crankcases to mount the oil pickups.

Regards,

Tobi

[moose]

We had our first ever unveiling of the car yesterday here at Penn.. figured i'd post some pictures of it

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~fsae/unveiling/Uncover1.JPG

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~fsae/unveiling/outside1.JPG

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~fsae/unveiling/outside2.JPG

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~fsae/unveiling/outside3.JPG

http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~fsae/unveiling/outside4.JPG

[MikeDutsa]

"the back of that car looks like its holding a shotgun... sweet"
- Matt

[lporter]

It also looks like it's holding the transponder. I'm pretty sure the rules dictate that it needs to be forward of the front roll hoop.

Good looking car though, hope you guys do well at competition.

[moose]

We haven't mounted that yet..I think you see the brake light (on the muffler?), as I couldn't find the black paint.

Yeah.. we put in a lot of time to really get things looking good. Weighed in at 439 the night before (almost fully wet), we were 514 in Michigan last year.. and thanks for the kind words

matt

[BamaJeff]

Alabama is ready for Virginia...see you guys there.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NFaoS-_XWHs

[TMichaels]

@moose: Looks good, best of luck with that baby!

The Cockpit of the LR08:
http://www.lionsracing.de/images/stories/bildergalerie/saison_2008_lr08_montage_cockpit_002_1_20080411_17 46983014.jpg

Regards,

Tobi

[Jari Rask]

HPF008 Launch
Helsinki revealed their new racecar HPF008 last Friday. More pictures to come...

http://www.edu.stadia.fi/~0303362/HPF008_Launch.jpg (http://www.edu.stadia.fi/%7E0303362/HPF008_Launch.jpg)

[A Richards]

Originally posted by Jari Rask:

Helsinki revealed their new racecar HPF008 last Friday. More pictures to come...

http://www.edu.stadia.fi/~0303362/HPF008_Launch.jpg (http://www.edu.stadia.fi/%7E0303362/HPF008_Launch.jpg)


Wow, looks like Helsinki's living the FSAE dream.

[moose]

wow, looks great.