Formula SAE Michigan 2011 Competition: - Updates, Pictures, Stories, and More [Archive]

RiNaZ

05-11-2011, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by Garlic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RiNaZ:
Just a reminder to everybody ... please be safe on your trip and use proper vehicle for towing ...

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...10022521#54610022521 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/16910602521?r=54610022521#54610022521)

Good advice and everyone should get plenty of rest too. But please don't incorrectly imply that the tragedy you linked to was the result of improper procedure, because it wasn't. And it's not fair to the team to imply as such.

Hope everyone arrives safe to FSAE-MI, and we have another great competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agreed.

Drew Price

05-12-2011, 12:51 PM

GFR, TU FAST, TU Graz, Wisconsin, NU, UCONN and UF Gators are tweeting most of their updates.

So far:

--NU took out a possum with the tow vehicle on the way to comp.

--Oregon / GFR 1st through scrutineering Wed. 12 noon Weight 304 lbs

--TU Fast through tech, Weight 423 lbs

--Wisconsin Madison 325 lbs

--UF Through tilt, noise & brakes 10:40am Thurs 448 lbs

--UW Mad only through scrutineering 11am Thurs

--GFR got best design report award from Bosch

--TU Fast fails noise first pass 112dB, passes 11:58am w/ 109.6dB

--GFR Twitter n00b posts:
...We passed Tilt and are on to Noise and Break.

then amends to....

Oops (Twitter amateur hour alert). Said we were on to "noise and break"...that should be "brake". We don't want breaking.......no.

Anthony Casson

05-12-2011, 02:43 PM

LOL I'm the "Twitter noob". What's sad is I'm not a noob, just apparently terrible at communicating that word properly -- no excuses (play like a champion).

Drew Price

05-12-2011, 02:51 PM

All in good fun, you know it's only because we're all jealous!

bob.paasch

05-12-2011, 05:00 PM

Design Finals:

GFR
Michigan
RIT
Munich
Stuttgart
Cornell
Karlsruhe
Amberg Weiden
TU Graz
Zwichau
UAS Graz
Wisconsin
Simon Bolivar
Virginia Tech

Anthony Casson

05-12-2011, 05:50 PM

Just 14 teams?

BrendonD

05-12-2011, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Anthony Casson:
LOL I'm the "Twitter noob". What's sad is I'm not a noob, just apparently terrible at communicating that word properly -- no excuses (play like a champion).

Ahhh, so you were the person I was tweeting at.

My phones (yes plural) died today and I left my charger. More tweets/posts tomorrow!

We are through tech (445lbs) and all of our static events will have scores registered... more than I ever could have asked for.

floRACEca

05-12-2011, 07:00 PM

Here are a few pictures from Day 1.

facebook dot com/media/set/?set=a.1890359293531.108584.1077931174&l=a002ed864e

FSAE.com

05-12-2011, 07:07 PM

FYI....spaces in links are no longer needed.

flagged posts are now immediately approved by default and reviewed after the fact.

Drew Price

05-12-2011, 07:55 PM

Congrats Simon Bolivar! You guys have come a long way in the last 5-7 years, I always liked the look of your cars.

Hello Mrs. Royce...

And hello to the first of hopefully many VERY large aero packages!

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/226853_1890361653590_1077931174_2190253_3894238_n. jpg

The AFX Master

05-12-2011, 08:54 PM

Wow!!! Semis! Not done since 2005!!!!...

Glad the team did it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The AFX Master

05-12-2011, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by Drew Price:
Congrats Simon Bolivar! You guys have come a long way in the last 5-7 years, I always liked the look of your cars.

Thank you Drew, Gladly appreciate it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SAE_intl_girl

05-12-2011, 09:03 PM

Just a few updates from today...
Total teams registered onsite is 104 however only 99 are onsite to compete with a car.

As of 5pm, only 78 cars passed scrutineering, 52 passed noise and 46 passed brake.

3-D Drawings were announced and on display in Design Judging garage. Winners were:
1st place National University of Singapore
2nd place Northern Illinois University
3rd place Clemson University

Honorable Mentions: Universitat Stuttgart, Rochester Institute of Technology, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Oregon State University, University of Manitoba, Brown University and Universite de Sherbrooke.

Design Semi-finals were mentioned above in previous posting. Congrats to the 14 teams making if through first round of judging.

Scores for Static events should be published by mid-afternoon in Garage 1.

GianVioli

05-13-2011, 03:56 AM

Congratulations to all design semi-finalist. We were extremly happy to be there and had a lot of fun.

Can't wait to see those babys running today!

floRACEca

05-13-2011, 04:30 AM

Here are a few pics from the 2nd day of competition:

www.facebook.com/media/set/?se...7931174&l=db041f4e4b (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1892825395182.108669.1077931174&l=db041f4e4b)

Michael Royce

05-13-2011, 07:32 AM

Drew,
The lady shown in the picture of the KU car is not Mrs. Royce, it is Barbara Steenken, a long time SCCA member, who has worked Tech at the Michigan event for many, many years. Mrs. Royce and I are watching the event from home, having just got back from Formula Hybrid and Formula Hybrid at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. We will be seeing some of the teams at Formula Student in the UK in July.

All the best to all the teams and stay safe.

SAE_intl_girl

05-13-2011, 09:23 AM

Unofficial Cost Event Results:
1st place Kookmin University
2nd place Centro Universitario Da Fri
3rd place Kumoh National Institute of Technology

SAE_intl_girl

05-13-2011, 10:40 AM

77 teams completed all three required technical inspection areas.

SAE_intl_girl

05-13-2011, 11:39 AM

Unofficial Results:

Making top 3 in Presentation and presenting at tonight prior to award ceremony where final finishing place will announced are:
Oregon State University
Universitat Stuttgart
National University of Singapore

SAE_intl_girl

05-13-2011, 12:19 PM

Design Finalists:
Oregon State University
TU Graz
RIT
TU Munich
Stuttgart
UAS Graz

gtmsracer

05-13-2011, 01:35 PM

Here is a live audio feed of autocross:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/sccasolo

SAE_intl_girl

05-13-2011, 02:14 PM

Unofficial Acceleration Results:
1st place Cornell with best time of 3.945 seconds
2nd place Stuttgart with best time of 3.985 seconds
3rd place Michigan Ann Arbor with best time of 4.000 seconds

DMuusers

05-13-2011, 02:24 PM

Nice updates! The european teams are strong again this year. Is stuttgart running on E85 or on petrol? Now we just need to know where we can find the pictures.

Mike Cook

05-13-2011, 04:24 PM

Nice run Jayhawks......http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

RacingManiac

05-13-2011, 04:27 PM

Will run order be posted here?....need to plan my drive over....lol

STRETCH

05-13-2011, 06:16 PM

From the look of some of those pics, looks like scrut. are still letting cars run that are blatantly illegal - some of those roll hoop lines are a long way from being 2" clear of the helmet.

Mike Cook

05-13-2011, 07:15 PM

Ha ha, you're joking, right?

Everyone knows they don't really enforce that rule. Just look at past pictures.

Wes Snaza

05-13-2011, 07:40 PM

Congrats to SDSM&T on the 3rd place AutoX finish! gtmsracer- any chance someone is going to put up a feed of the endurance tomorrow?

Tech Guy

05-13-2011, 08:21 PM

Mike, Lee,
Everyone knows that in spite of what is written in the Rules, drivers sit upright when having the roll hoops checked at tech and then lean forward when driving. It makes the car go faster.

Mike Cook

05-13-2011, 09:06 PM

Hi Tech Guy-- No offense intended, just poking fun. In all seriousness, I thought this was the at least part of the reason Percy came about? I'm actually surprised that Percy passed the rules but these drivers do not? I'm 6' and I'm pretty sure Percy is as big or bigger than me.

The AFX Master

05-13-2011, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
Ha ha, you're joking, right?

Everyone knows they don't really enforce that rule. Just look at past pictures.

Yeah, sure.. Go back in time to 2008 and ask Helsinki guys for a party after Design Finals.

PS: and joking too :P. I think that Helsinki incident was a bad day for someone in charge of scrutineering..day that got payed off screwing the poor guys.

cmeissen

05-13-2011, 09:44 PM

Endurance Run Order Posted:

http://www.sae.org/servlets/pr...MULA&RELEASE_ID=1512 (http://www.sae.org/servlets/pressRoom?OBJECT_TYPE=PressReleases&PAGE=showCDSNews&EVENT=FORMULA&RELEASE_ID=1512)

Zac

05-13-2011, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by The AFX Master:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Cook:
Ha ha, you're joking, right?

Everyone knows they don't really enforce that rule. Just look at past pictures.

Yeah, sure.. Go back in time to 2008 and ask Helsinki guys for a party after Design Finals.

PS: and joking too :P. I think that Helsinki incident was a bad day for someone in charge of scrutineering..day that got payed off screwing the poor guys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll bite on this since I was there.

Helsinki got pulled because their driver was "driving like grand ma." It was a violation of the rules. I know it looks arbitrary because other teams have gotten away with it before and since (notably UW on the competition program), but the scrutineers, judges, and volunteers are placed in the unenviable position that they can only enforce the rules on the violations they see. Eventually they will miss something, enforce a rule that seems draconian, or otherwise upset students in the name of safety. I doubt anyone that volunteers at a FSAE event sets out with the intent to screw a team.

Also, everyone brings up Helsinki, no one remembers Cinci getting a 2 minute penalty at California for the same thing, likely costing them an overall win.

Back on topic, anyone know the justification for inverting the endurance field?

Anthony Casson

05-13-2011, 11:03 PM

An update on the Kansas Facebook page said it was slowest to fastest.

theTTshark

05-14-2011, 06:10 AM

Jayhawk Motorsports' fastest time of the day runs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M_hNlu7TgQ

Simon Dingle

05-14-2011, 06:41 AM

@Zac

Maybe one of the organisers can confirm, but as far as I'm aware it's to make the endurance event more of a spectacle and end it with the fastest cars fighting it out for the comp win.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 07:31 AM

Endurance has started. We are runnig order opposite this year to add to the excitement.
So far three cars on track...fastest time is 67.169 by Univ of Manitoba. Times I'm sure will get faster before the morning session is over

Mike Cook

05-14-2011, 07:35 AM

Cool video Shark, thanks for posting. Looks like the chalk lines were less than optimal...

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 07:39 AM

Five cars on track Northern Illinois now fastest with a time of 66.420

Mike Cook

05-14-2011, 07:39 AM

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/sccasolo

audio up for endurance.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 07:40 AM

Univ of Montreal car 104 being towed off track. The first casuality of the day.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 07:46 AM

First driver change of the day...but Ferris State and Univ of Manitoba. Ferris with a small hiccup pulling in wrong but quickly resolved.

Manitoba with a quick driver change and restart. Ferris still in

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 07:49 AM

Ferris re-entering

Northern Illinois in driver change.

Car 58 LSU being towed off with broken rear suspension.

Northern Illinois re-entering

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 07:53 AM

Car 106 Ferris State being towed off track. Second casualty.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 07:59 AM

Car 72 being black flagged for a talk with officials. First of the day.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:01 AM

Car 95 being black flagged. Second of the day.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:06 AM

Current fastest lap time (unofficial ) is Michigan Dearborn with a 60.7

Univ of Manitoba has finished. The first finish of the day.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:16 AM

Car 57 York College of PA being towed off track

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:18 AM

Car 39 with a mechanical issue receiving the Meatball Flag

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:20 AM

Car 39 is pushing the car from driver change. Officials have DNF team due to brake light failure.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:26 AM

Car 8 Michigan Dearborn late arrival to the compeition only running in autocross so far is now dead on course and being towed.

So far 14 cars have started this morning on track of the scheduled 35.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:32 AM

Another car being towed off track, Car 18 Dalhousie Unix. Appears it may have been due to loss of gear box or possiby drive shaft?

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:39 AM

Car 105 Stevens Institute of Technology pulled in early for driver change due to their own lap count however during the change a mechanical issue was found in their suspension and the officials have declared the car a DNF

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:45 AM

Current fastest time of day is 60.7

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:51 AM

Car 66 Villanova loss stearing running into water barrier and now being pushed off track by officials as a DNF

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 08:59 AM

Car 92 Univ of Minnesota being pushed away from driver change area due t overheating

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:05 AM

Car 67 Florida Atlantic University needed assistance off track due to overheating. Team is DNF.

Zac

05-14-2011, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Anthony Casson:
An update on the Kansas Facebook page said it was slowest to fastest.

Looks like the D2697 is legit.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:18 AM

Car 40 Cal Poly Pomona has stalled on track due a hiccup with Queen's Univ stopping in front of them on track. Can they restart and re-enter...let's hope.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:22 AM

Car 97 Turabo Univ pulled in for driver change but with a blown engine they are pushing their car away from event.

For those cheering on Cal Poly unfortunately they could not restart.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:30 AM

Car 44 Queen' University pulled in for driver change however they are pushing away from driver change due to leaking oil.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:32 AM

So far 15 cars DNF and 6 cars have completed endurance.

Mike Cook

05-14-2011, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Zac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anthony Casson:
An update on the Kansas Facebook page said it was slowest to fastest.

Looks like the D2697 is legit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or maybe Kansas is legit?

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:43 AM

Car 32 Sherbrooke is DNF in driver change with failure to start.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:51 AM

Car 115 Oklahoma State Univ has been towed from track.

Current fastest time (unofficial) on track to beat is now 58.8 set by Car 37 IUPUI

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:53 AM

Car 34 Saginaw Valley pushing away from driver change due to failure to restart

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:57 AM

Car 16 US Air Force Academy with broken steering is being towed off track

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 10:00 AM

Car 74 Michigan Tech is pushing away from black flag area apparently due to losing part of brake rotor.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 10:10 AM

Georgia Tech unfortunately needed assistance onsite and is now pushing their car away from the event.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 10:16 AM

Car 89 Kumoh Institute of Technology has been towed off due to losing steering.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 10:23 AM

Current unofficial fastest lap time is 57.592 by Car 117 NC State.

Car 19 Northwestern University has died on course and is now being towed out of dynamic gate.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 10:27 AM

NC State just shaving off their fastest time with a time of 57.3

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 10:40 AM

Morning Endurance run is officially over. There will be a short lunch break by volunteers. We will be starting afternoon session with Design Finalists hitting the starting line.

Unofficial fastest time is 64.631 set by Brown University.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:43 AM

And the afternoon run has started with Oregon State on track followed by TU Munich

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:45 AM

Oregon State first lap time 54.092 followed with second lap time of 52.719

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:46 AM

Oregon State with leading time of 51.9

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:49 AM

Oregon State still in lead time but teams have been slowly increasing speeds...maybe they found their zone?

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:49 AM

Five of Six design finalists on track.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:52 AM

Obviously all times posted are considered "Unofficial"

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:54 AM

Car 7 TU Munich receiving a mechanical flag and pulled in for offical check but allowed to re-enter

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:56 AM

Car 1 Oregon State pulled in for driver change.

Car 11 Stuttgart pulled in as well a few laps short of a checkered...maybe some confusion?

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:57 AM

Oregon State only taking 2 minutes for driver change from moment exiting and entering track

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 11:58 AM

Car 7 TU Munich and Car 5 RIT in driver change

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:00 PM

Still waiting to enter track is Car 3 TU Graz

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:03 PM

Oregon State with unofficial best time of 51.2 only a second and half over TU Munich

Car 3 TU Graz has entered the track

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:05 PM

All six design finalists on track with times steady

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:10 PM

Oregon State with completed endurance!

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:13 PM

Car 7 TU Munich just completed their Endurance run.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:14 PM

Car 11 Stuttgart receiving the checker finishing Endurance

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:17 PM

Car 3 TU Graz in driver change

Appears Car 5 has run into some problems on track as they are getting a tow assistance.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:19 PM

Car 70 UAS Graz just completed Endurance leaving Car 3 TU Graz to drive all his driver 2 laps solo on course.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:33 PM

Car 3 TU Graz carrying a cone from the skid off on the second to last lap has been given the checker. Now we resume running order with next car on track with Univ of Pittsburgh

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:52 PM

Average speed seems to be in low 60s. All within seconds of each other is Pitt, Texas San Antonio, and Lehigh who also just pulled in for a black flag.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:54 PM

First car on this afternoon Car 71 now in for driver change

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 12:58 PM

Car 112 San Antonio is being pulled off course due to broke chain.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 01:04 PM

Car 83 Minnesota State. Mankato is being towed off course. DNF

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 01:10 PM

Car 22 University of Evansville has been DNF due to oil spilling on track course temporarily shut down for clean up

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 01:43 PM

Cars back on course. And in for driver change is Car 103.

Also completing their Endurance run is Car 71 Univ of Pittsburgh

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 02:34 PM

Car 75 Univ Illinois Urbana Champaign DNF due to blown engne.

Car 53 Rose Hulman Institute of Technology DNF due receiving a mechanical flag for fuel leak.

Car 80 Universite Laval stalled on course and could not restart resulting in tow off track.

Car 50 Western Michigan University DNF

Car 68 University of Toronto DNF due to broken chain and muffler.

Car 103 Penn State DNF on track due to engine problems.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 02:45 PM

Car 101 University of Illinois Chicago DNF after second driver entered course.

Jimmy_seven

05-14-2011, 02:48 PM

Great updates, keep 'em coming http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 02:49 PM

Car 120 Univ of Cincinnati DNF due to oil leak in driver change

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 02:52 PM

Car 63 Rutgers University stalled on course and could not restart in time

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:05 PM

Duke Car 64 DNF...cause unknown but speculation is ran out of fuel by officials as they stopped on last lap

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:12 PM

Car 114 UNC Charlotte completed their endurance runs for both drivers.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:17 PM

Car 928 University of Florida DNF receiving tow assistance

Car 65 McGill University DNF for spilling oil on track

Car 9 Cornell University completed their endurance runs.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:22 PM

Car 27 UAS Amberg-Weiden receiving the checkered flag completing their runs for endurance.

Car 1 Oregon State still holding unofficial fastest time with 51.283

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:34 PM

Car 30 University of Toledo completed their endurance runs

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:38 PM

Sadly Car 20 Oxford Brooked failed to restart in driver change and is pushing their car out of the dynamic gate.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:43 PM

Car 13 Center Universitario Da FEI is having some towing assistance due to breaking something on right rear

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:54 PM

Car 12 San Jose State University finished endurance!

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:56 PM

Car 84 Clemson University DNF and could not restart on course.

Mike Cook

05-14-2011, 03:57 PM

How small is this track? 28 laps with a top lap time of 51.2? This track has to be extremely tight.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 03:58 PM

Car 10 Kookmin University completed endurance

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:04 PM

Car 41 UAS Zwickau has completed endurance.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:09 PM

Average lap times of teams right are 53's

Car 2 Michigan Ann Arbor completed endurance

Car 59 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute was given a DNF on 13th lap of driver one

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:12 PM

Car 36 Univ of Kansas is on track. They were fastest in Ford Autocross but so far lap times are around 57.444 unofficially

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:14 PM

Akron, Wisconsin Madison and Kansas have shaved their times down into the 54's

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:17 PM

Car 78 Purdue with a lap time of 51.9

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:19 PM

Car 24 Karlsruhe Institute of Technology has DNF in driver change due to oil leak

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:23 PM

Car 73 Akron and Car 36 just pulled in for driver change

Car 49 Purdue finished endurance

Terriblewone

05-14-2011, 04:26 PM

Any news on UOIT/ University of Ontario? The car is all black with blue control arms....

Thanks again for all the updates, I wish I was there!

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:29 PM

Car 51 Michigan State has finished the endurance event

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:40 PM

Car 56 has been pulled into in driver change for mechanical due to brake fluid leak

Car 31 Oakland University failed in lap 13 of driver one

Car 42 Washington Univ St Louis started but did not even complete a lap

Car 73 Akron and Car 36 Kansas have received the checkered flag finishing endurance.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:47 PM

Car 15 Navy after a long hard fight to get all tech stickers has only completed 8 laps before getting DNF

Last on course and a lone driver is Car 99 Texas Tech University

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 04:49 PM

UOIT showed up to endurance but never made it on course. Not sure what happened there

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 05:18 PM

And the endurance race is officially over. Last car Texas Tech, Car 99 finished!

Terriblewone

05-14-2011, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by SAE_intl_girl:
UOIT showed up to endurance but never made it on course. Not sure what happened there

Thanks! I guess thats why the guys have no responded to my texts today. If I had to guess the weakest link on the car is perhaps the injector bung, perhaps it broke off the intake.

ESaenz

05-14-2011, 07:46 PM

Besides the tracks designed with phantom lines... The whole event was a lot of fun and I learned a lot. Looking forward to next year.
Elio
Owlsracing

RacingManiac

05-14-2011, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
How small is this track? 28 laps with a top lap time of 51.2? This track has to be extremely tight.

It doesn't look that different from the past MIS enduro track....they used about the same amount of the back stretch area as far as I can tell....though they did change the dynamic area entrance and the start-finish location this year. No longer do the teams need to get fuel, then push the car through the paddock, and past the spectator parking to get to the dynamic area....

Mike Cook

05-14-2011, 08:05 PM

I just remember last year, we ran something like twenty eight 42 second laps. 52/42 = 25% slower.

Michael Royce

05-14-2011, 08:12 PM

Mike,
If you do the math (28 laps for 13.66 miles), the track was 0.488 miles per lap. At the mean speed of 60 seconds per lap, the average speed was 29.3 mph. The fastest unofficial lap of 51.2 seconds corresponds to a lap average speed of 34.3 mph. The Rules specify and average speed of between 29.8 and 35.4 mph. I'd say the track designer(s) hit it right on.

The back straight at MIS is not the ideal location because it is only 210 feet wide between concrete walls. When you keep the course the required distance away from those walls, it does not allow the course designer as much freedom as he would like, and the course ends up being a bit "out and back". It is not possible to incorporate the big, high speed, 180 degree sweeper like we had at the Ford PG a few years back. And it was an FSAE course, not an SCCA Nationals course, although I had heard that a couple of the top SCCA solo people were involved in the course design this year.

Mike Cook

05-14-2011, 08:37 PM

Come on Mr. Royce...you know nothing slower than SCCA nationals will satisfy me... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Der Krug

05-14-2011, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by SAE_intl_girl:
Car 78 Purdue with a lap time of 51.9
NO. This is wrong. Car 78 doesn't have wheels yet. (I would know....hint hint...)

FSAE.com

05-14-2011, 09:32 PM

Oregon State GFR wins 2011 Formula SAE! (http://www.fsae.com/winner_fsae.shtml)

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:55 PM

Top 10 finishers overall:
1st place Oregon State University
2nd place Technical University of Munich
3rd place Universitat Stuttgart
4th place Graz University of Technology
5th place University of Wisconsin Madison
6th place University of Michigan Ann Arbor
7th place UAS Zwickau
8th place University of Akron
9th place University of Kansas
10th place University of Applied Sciences Graz

CONGRATS TO ALL THE TEAMS! Offcial scores should be posted on the Formula SAE Michigan website Monday, May 16th.

SAE_intl_girl

05-14-2011, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by scubasteve:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SAE_intl_girl:
Car 78 Purdue with a lap time of 51.9
NO. This is wrong. Car 78 doesn't have wheels yet. (I would know....hint hint...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah typing from cell phone during endurance event...can't always be perfect.

Sam. B.

05-14-2011, 10:49 PM

You guys know why ETS team was not at MIS this year?

RacingManiac

05-15-2011, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Sam. B.:
You guys know why ETS team was not at MIS this year?

Talked to one of the guys from ETS, their mold was delivered late and they did not managed to finish in time. Not sure if the car is physically not finished or just not finished to the extend they wished to be.

2BWise

05-15-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Zac:
Also, everyone brings up Helsinki, no one remembers Cinci getting a 2 minute penalty at California for the same thing, likely costing them an overall win.

That's still a sore subject for the Cincy team that was competing that year. I have sympathy for Helsinki. Its very disappointing to get pulled seemingly randomly.

Originally posted by Zac:
Back on topic, anyone know the justification for inverting the endurance field?

Any top autox/design finalist teams have issues with the endurance run order? I was out spectating and was not happy with the run order. 2 reasons. 1) Track conditions between the one o' clock group (design finalists) and the end of the day were reasonably different and likely will have affected the results. It didn't happen, but there was a definite risk of rain throughout the day. Either of the two groups, running five hrs apart could have a completely different track. 2) The top autox teams running at six had to contend with ridiculous traffic. No offense to the slower teams, but they have no business being on track with cars that are over 10s a lap quicker. The design finalists got the track to themselves. One team even got the second driver a completely empty track.

cebury

05-15-2011, 12:06 PM

Any top autox/design finalist teams have issues with the endurance run order? I was out spectating and was not happy with the run order. 2 reasons. 1) Track conditions between the one o' clock group (design finalists) and the end of the day were reasonably different and likely will have affected the results. It didn't happen, but there was a definite risk of rain throughout the day. Either of the two groups, running five hrs apart could have a completely different track. 2) The top autox teams running at six had to contend with ridiculous traffic. No offense to the slower teams, but they have no business being on track with cars that are over 10s a lap quicker. The design finalists got the track to themselves. One team even got the second driver a completely empty track.

Very strongly agreed. Virtually every lap we were overtaking (and were overtaken only once). The track was also significantly colder than it was earlier in the day, and we are extremely lucky that the forecasted afternoon rain didn't come till later. Was very upsetting.

RiNaZ

05-15-2011, 12:09 PM

anybody know a good photo album or facebook that has pictures from michigan?

Anthony Casson

05-15-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by cebury:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Any top autox/design finalist teams have issues with the endurance run order? I was out spectating and was not happy with the run order. 2 reasons. 1) Track conditions between the one o' clock group (design finalists) and the end of the day were reasonably different and likely will have affected the results. It didn't happen, but there was a definite risk of rain throughout the day. Either of the two groups, running five hrs apart could have a completely different track. 2) The top autox teams running at six had to contend with ridiculous traffic. No offense to the slower teams, but they have no business being on track with cars that are over 10s a lap quicker. The design finalists got the track to themselves. One team even got the second driver a completely empty track.

Very strongly agreed. Virtually every lap we were overtaking (and were overtaken only once). The track was also significantly colder than it was earlier in the day, and we are extremely lucky that the forecasted afternoon rain didn't come till later. Was very upsetting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was interesting listening to it on the live broadcast. If anything, it's a safety hazard. By no means am I speaking for the rest of my team, but it seemed logical to have, instead, the fastest teams run in the same session. I was worried about teams in the final group, absolutely.

Anthony Casson

05-15-2011, 12:24 PM

@RiNaZ

TU Graz, Oxford Brookes, and others, have posted photos. On our page, check out the 60+ teams we're following and see if they have something. We have thousands of Michigan photos to sort through, so we'll be posting them within the next week, as people get back to town.

Here's our page: GFR Facebook Link (http://www.facebook.com/TeamGFR)

ESaenz

05-15-2011, 01:03 PM

Anyone have the overall scores of all the teams?
Elio
Owlsracing

MegaDeath

05-15-2011, 01:46 PM

I just hope Austria and Germany are run better than Michigan was.

SAE_intl_girl

05-15-2011, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by MegaDeath:
I just hope Austria and Germany are run better than Michigan was.

Well if you were really unhappy with how the event was organized please be sure to complete the post event survey SAE will be sending it out tomorrow. You should receive it in your email box if you were a student who actually affiliated yourself to the team registration.

Austin B

05-15-2011, 03:49 PM

@RiNaZ

We have a bunch of photos on the Oxford Brookes Racing Facebook Page. A lot of them are of our car but we do have lots of others as well!

https://www.facebook.com/pages...cing/152099461500458 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oxford-Brookes-Racing/152099461500458)

We will be uploading pics over the next week, so keep checking back!

Austin Brauser
Marketing Director
Oxford Brookes Racing

RiNaZ

05-15-2011, 05:16 PM

thanks for those that posted up links. We need more pictures http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ben K

05-15-2011, 07:42 PM

Can't wait to see the overall results!

Ben

floRACEca

05-16-2011, 06:07 AM

Here are pics of the 3rd day of comp...

www.facebook.com/media/set/?se...7931174&l=e2f63bf443 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1901459771036.108965.1077931174&l=e2f63bf443)

Jon Oneill

05-16-2011, 06:19 AM

more Pics. Please.

SupraSteve

05-16-2011, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by SAE_intl_girl:
UOIT showed up to endurance but never made it on course. Not sure what happened there

our starting issue was traced to aluminum shavings from the tank plugging the injector, despite having two fuel filters (clearly not fine enough). We cleaned it as best we could and showed up to endurance. Once running, EGTs were incredibly high indicating it was still running lean.

For safety sake, we decided to take the DNS. I'd bet the engine wouldn't have lasted a lap.

I suppose I can find some comfort in the fact that no components that were engineered/manufactured failed us all week. Just an inappropriate filter selected.

We've been drivng the car since Easter and yet this issue decided to come up during the competition. Maybe 9 hours of shaking in the truck dislodged debris? That's racing...

Simon Dingle

05-16-2011, 09:56 AM

Would just like to say a big thanks to the organisers for the big increase in coverage of the event. Managed to catch a fair bit of the audio commentary and the regular updates on this thread were great for keping up with what was going on.

I remember there being a few complaints on this forum last year about the lack of posted information and I thought this year was a big improvement, so thank you.

Also, thanks to all the teams who kept us up to date with what was going on via Facebook and Twitter.

bob.paasch

05-16-2011, 10:28 AM

I also would like to express my thanks to Kaley (SAE_intl_girl) for her constant updates.

Anthony Casson

05-16-2011, 10:37 AM

Agreed. My email inbox was always full of notifications, but it was always full of great information!

Thank you

Al George

05-16-2011, 12:29 PM

Have the final results been posted anywhere yet?

nick roberts

05-16-2011, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
Nice run Jayhawks......http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thanks Mike. Will we see you and Stanley at Fontana this year? I’m looking forward to a very wing filled event.

Originally posted by Wes Snaza:
Congrats to SDSM&T on the 3rd place AutoX finish! gtmsracer- any chance someone is going to put up a feed of the endurance tomorrow?

Sorry about the DNF SDSM&T. You guys looked good in autocross. Hated to see the car propped up in line for endurance being worked on.

Originally posted by Zac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anthony Casson:
An update on the Kansas Facebook page said it was slowest to fastest.

Looks like the D2697 is legit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, those runs were on year old D2696's. We weren’t one of the few lucky teams that were able to get our hands on the 97's before MI. I actually wasn't even aware of them until looking down the line in endurance when i noticed them on Akron's car. Maybe now well get lucky and GY will get us some tires for CA ; )

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
How small is this track? 28 laps with a top lap time of 51.2? This track has to be extremely tight.

You’ll see once our guys get the endurance videos uploaded, but it was definitely tight. The autocross track was a much better blend of high speed and low speed sections. The endurance track did not flow at all and was very awkward in several places. Last years MI endurance track was 10x better.

Originally posted by SAE_intl_girl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MegaDeath:
I just hope Austria and Germany are run better than Michigan was.

Well if you were really unhappy with how the event was organized please be sure to complete the post event survey SAE will be sending it out tomorrow. You should receive it in your email box if you were a student who actually affiliated yourself to the team registration. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a couple comments on how the endurance event was run that i will also submit in the survey once i receive it.

First off, i really don’t understand the reasoning behind running the fastest cars from autocross at the end of the day, almost 50 cars apart from the design finalists. No matter what happened, there was going to be a difference in driving conditions in that time. It turned out that we ran when it was 10deg colder, the track had been doused with oil, and it was beginning to rain. Considering MI weather it could have worked out to our benefit on any other day. The point is, why change what has always been done in running the fast cars right after lunch, I just don’t see why that change was necessary.

Second, when the officials began running cars that had no previous scores or had just passed tech after us, it became quite clear that we had no chance of placing as well as we could in endurance. This decision I completely understand because of the delays that had pushed the event so late. But in my opinion, when you put the fastest cars at the end of the day you are asking for trouble. If there are any delays during the day, the officials are going to see pressure to flood the end of the run order with whatever cars are in line. This was never an issue when you had the fastest cars run earlier in the day, since the lap time differential was less at the end of the run order. I don’t care how fast your car is, you cant win endurance when you hit traffic every lap.

-nick roberts
University of Kansas

FSAE.com

05-16-2011, 04:39 PM

congrats to the whole JMS Team on the Autocross win.

Nick, that was a killer drive! sorry to hear you guys had so much traffic in your Endurance run.

MegaDeath

05-16-2011, 04:45 PM

Well said Nick.

I would leave my comments of severe disapproval here, but I won't because that way I can't be ridiculed and called "whiny" by an event official and one of the top teams advisors. Once in a week was enough for that. My opinion can be found in the survey.

floRACEca

05-16-2011, 09:42 PM

Here are pics from the 4th day of comp:

www.facebook.com/media/set/?se...7931174&l=931b849e34 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1903436460452.109045.1077931174&l=931b849e34)

RStory

05-16-2011, 09:51 PM

I've got a few photos from the event at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/r...s/72157626576284991/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertstory/sets/72157626576284991/)

Nick, I agree with your comments on endurance.

Your autocross run was awesome, looking forward to seeing the car again in California!

Bcohen5055

05-17-2011, 12:06 AM

Photos from Colorado State Days 1 and 2

http://www.facebook.com/media/...1980597&l=ee538ad7a6 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1491748848654.2041976.1081980597&l=ee538ad7a6)
3 and 4 should be up tomorrow

JDS

05-17-2011, 07:49 AM

Here are pictures of just the Purdue car from competition...
https://picasaweb.google.com/j...eCar?feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/jjspierx/2011FSAEMichiganPurdueCar?feat=directlink)

And here are pics of other cars taken during endurance. A lot of these were taken high speed at 60 fps, so download the entire sequence and flip through them on your computer for full effect. You can really see some cool suspension movement and tire deflection in some of them.
https://picasaweb.google.com/j...ance?feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/jjspierx/2011FSAEMichiganEndurance?feat=directlink)

Ben K

05-17-2011, 09:02 AM

Anyone hear about when the results will be coming out? My team is getting impatient :-D

Ben

Some Guy

05-17-2011, 09:53 AM

I think it took a surprisingly long time last year (a few days).

It was good meeting all these teams in person finally. My second year at Michigan and the variation in cars is still shocking.

bob.paasch

05-17-2011, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by nick roberts:

First off, i really don’t understand the reasoning behind running the fastest cars from autocross at the end of the day, almost 50 cars apart from the design finalists. No matter what happened, there was going to be a difference in driving conditions in that time. It turned out that we ran when it was 10deg colder, the track had been doused with oil, and it was beginning to rain. Considering MI weather it could have worked out to our benefit on any other day. The point is, why change what has always been done in running the fast cars right after lunch, I just don’t see why that change was necessary.

Nick, I'll take some of the blame. For two years, I've been telling the folks at SAE about the Formula Student Germany endurance run order, how the crowd and excitement build to a huge climax with the four fastest cars on the track at the end. I expect that magic is what SAE was trying to capture.

Unfortunately, there are some major differences between FSAE Michigan and FSG:
1) FSG only has 78 teams, so endurance is finished sooner.
2) FSG doesn't have a third design judging event on the endurance day.
3) Though the weather in August at Hockenheim is variable, it's not nearly as unpredictable as May in Michigan.

I believe these differences prevented the change in run order from being a success. I think the most critical difference was pulling the 6 design finalists out and running them at a different time from the rest of the fast cars. That is never going to be fair to all.

Frankly, I was very concerned when the run order was announced that it would be an advantage to Kansas and other the cars running later in the afternoon. As it often does, the autocross seemed to get faster later in the day. Maybe that's because Kansas, GFR, SDSMT et. al. waited until later. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Second, when the officials began running cars that had no previous scores or had just passed tech after us, it became quite clear that we had no chance of placing as well as we could in endurance. This decision I completely understand because of the delays that had pushed the event so late. But in my opinion, when you put the fastest cars at the end of the day you are asking for trouble. If there are any delays during the day, the officials are going to see pressure to flood the end of the run order with whatever cars are in line. This was never an issue when you had the fastest cars run earlier in the day, since the lap time differential was less at the end of the run order. I don’t care how fast your car is, you cant win endurance when you hit traffic every lap.

-nick roberts
University of Kansas

I agree, this was not a good decision. Cars with no autocross score should have started in the morning with the slowest cars. This was unfair, and if they run slow to fast next year I expect SAE will fix this.

This has also got me thinking about cars that aren't ready to go at their designated time. The rules say they run at the end of endurance with a two minute penalty. FSG has figured out a work around, because they alway end with the four fastest cars.

AxelRipper

05-17-2011, 11:11 AM

Bob, It seems to only make sense that the fastest cars should run in the middle of the day with the design finalists. Granted, you wont wind up with your "grand finale," but it would have a good quick group in the middle, and then there wouldn't (shouldn't) be a dead spot between the finalists and the fastest, and then you wouldn't have rather quick cars (in this years case, TU Graz) out there by themselves for most of a driver. This would also allow the fast cars to not fight slow traffic (though Kansas should be used to it by now, as I watched them do the same last year due to mechanical issues) and it also gives the teams fighting to get their cars running an extra couple hours to get them going.

Drew Price

05-17-2011, 11:44 AM

JDS,

First of all, the Purdue car looks amazing, I love it.

Second of all, if any of you come through my tech line at West looking like this, you will be having a very bad weekend. Speaking as someone whose car was pulled into the inspection pits for a chat for violating this rule during endurance (and seeing the Helsinki team 3 years back), I am a little more sore than most about this issue, but it is extremely easy to see from a distance, and is a big risk to be taking.

A top finisher's chance at fast times are ruined by being pulled off track, even for a 30-second chat with the track coordinators.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/TdKz9nt9lQI/AAAAAAAAIdo/EKT9kGAvR0U/s640/purdue.jpg

bob.paasch

05-17-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by AxelRipper:
Bob, It seems to only make sense that the fastest cars should run in the middle of the day with the design finalists. Granted, you wont wind up with your "grand finale," but it would have a good quick group in the middle, and then there wouldn't (shouldn't) be a dead spot between the finalists and the fastest, and then you wouldn't have rather quick cars (in this years case, TU Graz) out there by themselves for most of a driver. This would also allow the fast cars to not fight slow traffic (though Kansas should be used to it by now, as I watched them do the same last year due to mechanical issues) and it also gives the teams fighting to get their cars running an extra couple hours to get them going.

What you suggest is, of course, what SAE did in 2010. The other option would be to not pull out the design finalists, but run them in their normal spot, that's what they do at FSG. But if the fastest cars are at the end, this would not allow the design judges the opportunity to see the cars perform in endurance before making their final selections.

Everyone on this forum should give SAE credit for trying to improve the competition. My personal opinion is that given the current design finals constraint, the 2010 run order was better. But you have to admit that with that run order there's almost nobody left out at endurance at the end of the day to watch the slowest cars. Same with California.

matt.kalmus

05-17-2011, 12:21 PM

JDS

05-17-2011, 12:31 PM

From SAE.org...

"To increase the excitement level leading up to the award ceremony; this year’s event SAE International decided to invert the running order from slowest to fastest cars. As in every change made there is always some trial and error; we realize there may have been some flaw to the event run order however we ensure all competitors the issue will be resolved for next year. "

JDS

05-17-2011, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Drew Price:
JDS,

First of all, the Purdue car looks amazing, I love it.

Second of all, if any of you come through my tech line at West looking like this, you will be having a very bad weekend. Speaking as someone whose car was pulled into the inspection pits for a chat for violating this rule during endurance (and seeing the Helsinki team 3 years back), I am a little more sore than most about this issue, but it is extremely easy to see from a distance, and is a big risk to be taking.

A top finisher's chance at fast times are ruined by being pulled off track, even for a 30-second chat with the track coordinators.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_JNlhJgnxXHk/TdKz9nt9lQI/AAAAAAAAIdo/EKT9kGAvR0U/s640/purdue.jpg

A couple of things about that. First off, until Percy is given knees and feet, teams will continue to get around this rule very easily. There is nothing to say that Percy doesn't have freakishly short legs, and therefore if you make a seat for Percy that scoots his behind up and reclines his position, it is completely possible to make any size/shape cockpit and roll hoop pass. We design our seats by having our drivers sit in the car with helmet, and then we position him/her to until they fit the 2" rule and then we make the seat around them in that position.

We have done this the last 2 years and both years in tech the inspectors have given us grief for a considerable amount of time,but after calling over other inspectors and when they follow the rule they find we pass.

As for the picture you posted, well perspective can change a lot. Here are couple of pictures with the same driver and same seat that appear to pass the rule.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_3WD6fsRqmxU/TdLDwg89iQI/AAAAAAAABcg/MfglItddVzE/2inch_2.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_3WD6fsRqmxU/TdLDwn5W9VI/AAAAAAAABcc/ruxrazA2FX8/s800/2inch_1.jpg

Mike Cook

05-17-2011, 12:56 PM

Bob, I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of us have no idea how the German competition is run except that we are constantly reminded of how great it is (on this forum, other places too).

-I like running all the design finalist together. This seems like a good way to really see how the different cars behave.

-I do not prefer to have the fastest guys run first in the morning. The track is cold, there is no rubber down, and really its just not as exciting. Its kinda like watching the end of the movie first. The only advantage is that you don't have to worry about the track being oiled down.

-Running the endurance order as it was in MIS this year could be interesting, but there just seems like there are too many cars to have this work out fairly. Plus the weather is too unpredictable. It is dangerous to have the slow cars at the very end out with the fastest cars too. Some of the teams who didn't get an autox time, need most of the day saturday to get their car fixed. So making them run in the morning seems (I don't want to say unfair) unfortunate.

- I think maybe the best solution is before lunch have the slowest to fastest cars run. Then after lunch run the design finalists, and then the rest of the cars, fastest to slowest. From a spectators standpoint, I like this a lot. It puts the fastest cars with the design finalists. And everyone should have good weather conditions (or at least similar).

Mike

Rallyboy990

05-17-2011, 01:07 PM

Results Are up

http://www.sae.org/images/cds/...E_MI_2011_result.pdf (http://www.sae.org/images/cds/selfservice/305655909_FSAE_MI_2011_result.pdf)

JDS

05-17-2011, 01:57 PM

Top 4 Endurance Single Lap Times:

1. OSU/GFR - 51.283
2. Stuttgart - 51.775
3. Purdue University - 51.882
4. TU Graz - 51.909

Would be interesting to see the top times had all the top teams ran at the same time. I know when we(Purdue) were out the track was very cold, and there were rain drops off and on throughout endurance.

Drew Price

05-17-2011, 02:37 PM

To be fair, there's also no way to tell if the driver's head is being flung forward in a braking zone in this photo. I only meant to point out that cutting it this close when this rule has caused so much grief in the past may not be worth the headache and potential for ruining your weekend.

You never know how an organizer will react to something they see for an instant on track and you can be pulled in on a split-second issue, which will result in your being examined very thoroughly again.

Originally posted by matt.kalmus:
2. Cars pulled in from endurance for inspection under a mechanical black flag don't get hit for a time penalty.

I was trying to point out to other teams that getting called in for the black IS a time penalty which is avoidable by not cutting it this close, you don't get that time back from the long lap you were in for.

Originally posted by JDS:

First off, until Percy is given knees and feet, teams will continue to get around this rule very easily. ...... We design our seats by having our drivers sit in the car.... until they fit the 2" rule and then we make the seat ...

We have done this the last 2 years and both years in tech the inspectors have given us grief for a considerable amount of time,but after calling over other inspectors and when they follow the rule they find we pass.

Completely agree, this is how we did it, however you even point out that it causes issues at tech.

One of my goals was always to get through tech as smoothly as I possibly can, and this is often pointed out to be a place with minimal gains for cutting it so close.

Originally posted by JDS:
As for the picture you posted, well perspective can change a lot.

Completely agree, and as I said above, this may just be a momentary thing, I am just pointing out that we keep seeing the same thing when it has been proven to be a game breaker in the past.

JDS

05-17-2011, 03:17 PM

Completely agree, this is how we did it, however you even point out that it causes issues at tech.

One of my goals was always to get through tech as smoothly as I possibly can, and this is often pointed out to be a place with minimal gains for cutting it so close.

We design our car to comply with the official rules and regulations, if tech wants to give us grief over it before passing us, that is fine, we will continue to design our cars to meet the rules though.

Jeong-neon Kim

05-17-2011, 03:46 PM

It was very hard time at MIS in this year.
Specially thanks to Auburn, WHZ racing, and Notrh dakota.
We uploaded Presentation Hightlight video and presentation seminar video.
If anyone interested, please visit our facebook page.
h t t p : / / w w w . f a c e b o o k . c o m /kookmin.racing

Anthony Casson

05-17-2011, 04:02 PM

We have some dynamics photos of many teams uploaded on Facebook. Check them out, and if your team has a FB page, tag the photo -- it can be a good tool to connect with other teams and fans.
2011 FSAE Michigan Dynamics Photos -- Fellow Teams (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.186879908031009.62322.130002227052111)

Cheers

BrendonD

05-17-2011, 05:26 PM

If you really want to pass tech smoothly, you should give yourself more than an inch of clearance with Percy in CAD for the roll hoops, and more than an 1/8th of an inch on the cockpit templates. We were given flack about all of those because of errors in manufacturing (CAD != real life), and a revision to our floorplate that made our passing of the footbox template "questionable" at best. (No further comment on that). That said, our driver's heads probably also violate this 2 inch rule under braking, and we were nowhere near as aggressive as the Purdue design when it came to approaching the limit of the rules. We still got through tech with our frame geometry, although I don't think we'll be repeating the front bulkhead since this car will need a little bit of modification up there to be comfortable to drive.

Cheers,
BrendonD
Team Leader '10-'11
Northwestern Formula Racing

EHog

05-17-2011, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
- I think maybe the best solution is before lunch have the slowest to fastest cars run. Then after lunch run the design finalists, and then the rest of the cars, fastest to slowest. From a spectators standpoint, I like this a lot. It puts the fastest cars with the design finalists. And everyone should have good weather conditions (or at least similar).

Mike

I am still trying to figure out how your design event standing somehow determines your endurance start time. If you look at the top 5 autocross times, 3 of those teams didn't even make design semi-finals... Slowest to fastest or fastest to slowest. I don't think anything else could really be deemed "fair".

Make the design finals work around the endurance order. This way you only have to shuffle the times of 6 teams. If we make the endurance order work around the design finalists, suddenly you have to shuffle around all 120 teams.

If you finished first in auto-x, you should either be first or last to go in endurance. Why make it difficult when you don't have to?????

VTMotorsportsTuner

05-17-2011, 11:00 PM

anyone know where to find the picture of all the teams together that was taken at the end with that old ass panoramic camera?

RacingManiac

05-18-2011, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by EHog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Cook:
- I think maybe the best solution is before lunch have the slowest to fastest cars run. Then after lunch run the design finalists, and then the rest of the cars, fastest to slowest. From a spectators standpoint, I like this a lot. It puts the fastest cars with the design finalists. And everyone should have good weather conditions (or at least similar).

Mike

I am still trying to figure out how your design event standing somehow determines your endurance start time. If you look at the top 5 autocross times, 3 of those teams didn't even make design semi-finals... Slowest to fastest or fastest to slowest. I don't think anything else could really be deemed "fair".

Make the design finals work around the endurance order. This way you only have to shuffle the times of 6 teams. If we make the endurance order work around the design finalists, suddenly you have to shuffle around all 120 teams.

If you finished first in auto-x, you should either be first or last to go in endurance. Why make it difficult when you don't have to????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It kinda stems from MI competition's design event though. We have 3 level of design judging and design final always takes into account of the finalists' on track performance. I don't think a team can win design if it DNFed in enduro. In the past the design final was held Sunday morning before the award banquet, so the enduro can be run normally in its AutoX determined order(fast->slow morning for slow half, fast->slow in the afternoon for the fast half). But now we have condensed the event down to finish on Saturday night, they need to still do the design final before the award, but they also need to work through up to 120 cars in Michigan, so they can't let it go through its natural order and have time for design final before the award. And even if the design finalist tend to be pretty close together in autoX time, its not always the case. Weather catches people out all the time in FSAE. So they change around the run order to make sure they have time for it. Only this time they also moved the run order to be like FSG thus we get this big time discrepency between design finalists and AutoX fast cars outside of the finalists.

IMO I like having the event in the past to Sunday morning...but I can see the need to condense it for venue and I am sure logistic also. I think IMO they leave the old MI style run order instead of copying the FSG style order, and just make the finalist run first in the afternoon, then the fast cars so you don't mix up slower and faster cars, or different track condition(to a reasonable extent) to potentially upset the result....

Fantomas

05-18-2011, 08:30 AM

I am still trying to figure out how your design event standing somehow determines your endurance start time. If you look at the top 5 autocross times, 3 of those teams didn't even make design semi-finals... Slowest to fastest or fastest to slowest. I don't think anything else could really be deemed "fair".

I also do not get it. The endurance event should not determine, how you score in design. There is so much driver influence in general, that it does not make sense to me.
None of the design judges can in my opinion be objective, if they saw you fail in endurance. And you may fail in endurance, because you forgot to add tape somewhere...
Especially if they keep telling you that they judge your knowledge and not your car...by keeping this order of endurance and design finals, I think the design judging is heavily influenced. It seems a bit backwards to me and it of course affects the endurance scoring also.

Does anyone know, if the design judges knew the lap times? Would make it even more akward.

With respect to Tech:
Scrutineering is a joke compared to scrutineering at FS UK or FSG.

Fantomas

theTTshark

05-18-2011, 09:16 AM

Here's the 1st driver for endurance from KU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM_RZiS31oY
And the second.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYhJd8x0BIc

Take what you will from it.

js10coastr

05-18-2011, 09:56 AM

RacingManiac

05-18-2011, 11:07 AM

IMO Endurance/Track result cannot be completely overlooked for design. FSUK had years in the past where design winner did not make a single dynamic event due to not being able to pass braking test. The performance on track should compliment the understanding and design of the vehicle....

JDS

05-18-2011, 11:24 AM

Did anybody happen to record the live audio broadcast of auto-x and/or endurance?

Fantomas

05-18-2011, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by RacingManiac:
IMO Endurance/Track result cannot be completely overlooked for design. FSUK had years in the past where design winner did not make a single dynamic event due to not being able to pass braking test. The performance on track should compliment the understanding and design of the vehicle....

I do not say that it should not be taken into account in any way, especially if you have a car that does not run at all. However, I would focus on the more driver independent disciplines such as acceleration and skidpad, instead of autocross and endurance.
Design finals at the other events are usually not conducted after endurance, but after the first day of dynamics with Acceleration, SkidPad and AutoX. This is more appropriate in my opinion.
To put it in a nutshell: The fastest cars in endurance or autocross can be far away from being the best designed cars.

Fantomas

RenM

05-18-2011, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by RacingManiac:
IMO Endurance/Track result cannot be completely overlooked for design. FSUK had years in the past where design winner did not make a single dynamic event due to not being able to pass braking test.

Well then i guess the Design Judges didnt do their job properly. A Team that has the knowledge and the car needed for a design win should have no problems with the brake test.

RacingManiac

05-18-2011, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RacingManiac:
IMO Endurance/Track result cannot be completely overlooked for design. FSUK had years in the past where design winner did not make a single dynamic event due to not being able to pass braking test. The performance on track should compliment the understanding and design of the vehicle....

I do not say that it should not be taken into account in any way, especially if you have a car that does not run at all. However, I would focus on the more driver independent disciplines such as acceleration and skidpad, instead of autocross and endurance.
Design finals at the other events are usually not conducted after endurance, but after the first day of dynamics with Acceleration, SkidPad and AutoX. This is more appropriate in my opinion.
To put it in a nutshell: The fastest cars in endurance or autocross can be far away from being the best designed cars.

Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not sure historically what was the case. In Michigan going back to 2003(my first year) has always been endurance before design final. This being one aspect that the European Formula Student differs from the US Formula SAE(East, not sure about west neither). So "usually" is not really accurate. While I wholehearted agree that driver is a huge influence on on track performance, I don't think there was clear evidence of track result completely sway the design results. I think the judges knows that too. I know a lot of the judges also like to "read" the used tire as it also gives them an indication to understand how well the car was setup to utilize their tire. Something that is not necessarily dictated by driver.

Charlie

05-18-2011, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am still trying to figure out how your design event standing somehow determines your endurance start time. If you look at the top 5 autocross times, 3 of those teams didn't even make design semi-finals... Slowest to fastest or fastest to slowest. I don't think anything else could really be deemed "fair".

I also do not get it. The endurance event should not determine, how you score in design. There is so much driver influence in general, that it does not make sense to me.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You brought up a totally different point than the one you quoted. The quoted point regarded endurance start order; your point is about design finals being after the endurance event.

The design finals have long been after endurance. Carroll Smith gave good reason for this. The cars in the design finals are all very well designed cars. There are usually only 3 cars or so in finals, and it can be very difficult to decide which is best. In this case, it's great for judges to be able to watch the cars compete.

To think that judges just look at the scores and decide who should win design is false. Many judges are experienced and you can see in the event a lot about a car's design, regardless of lap time or eventual endurance score. Many teams will show up with something that looks too small, or too fragile, or too compliant, but the team insists it handles loads and is properly designed. Endurance is a great time to check on that. Sometimes the team is spot on, sometimes they are not. Alternatively, occasionally a team will show up in design with some very trick parts, carbon wheels or variable intakes, which are either not installed or disabled in endurance. This is good to see for the judges if these products were working as advertised.

While design should be primarily about the process, and not necessarily the on-track product, the design finals are the point where all the teams have great process and an outstanding product. The judges want to award the best car design with the design award, and functionality is important.

The teams have a chance in finals to speak for themselves regarding anything the judges saw in endurance, so it's not as if the judges are just drawing improper conclusions based on a few laps either.

You may not like it, but it is a tried and tested formula. Other events may not do it that way, but smaller events typically haven't had so many cars that they needed semi finals and finals, and close enough competition that they were looking for small tie-breakers. I know that overseas events have come a long way in the past 5 years though.

bob.paasch

05-18-2011, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by RacingManiac:
I am not sure historically what was the case. In Michigan going back to 2003(my first year) has always been endurance before design final. This being one aspect that the European Formula Student differs from the US Formula SAE(East, not sure about west neither).

To my knowledge, California has always had design finals after endurance. California run order is fastest to slowest, so the design finalists are always done with endurance for the afternoon finals.

js10coastr

05-18-2011, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RacingManiac:
IMO Endurance/Track result cannot be completely overlooked for design. FSUK had years in the past where design winner did not make a single dynamic event due to not being able to pass braking test. The performance on track should compliment the understanding and design of the vehicle....

I do not say that it should not be taken into account in any way, especially if you have a car that does not run at all. However, I would focus on the more driver independent disciplines such as acceleration and skidpad, instead of autocross and endurance.
Design finals at the other events are usually not conducted after endurance, but after the first day of dynamics with Acceleration, SkidPad and AutoX. This is more appropriate in my opinion.
To put it in a nutshell: The fastest cars in endurance or autocross can be far away from being the best designed cars.

Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I've read, Champ/Indy Cars back in the 90's took the driver into account. F1 then was all about putting together the fastest theoretical car and throwing the driver in and having him (or now her) deal with it. When Jaques Villenuve went over along with JPM... they brought along the North American way of looking at things. I believe this is why more F1 teams are using driver in the loop simulations instead of flat out sims. IE. I play iRacing a fair amount, and I'm sure that the theoretical fastest lap around Spa is with a low downforce setting, and I'm sure there are drivers out there that can put in their fastest lap with a low downforce setting. Me on the other hand... I'm not that great of a driver, and so for me to preform my best and to keep the car on the track, I need a med downforce setting. So, if a team was smart and I was driving, a med downforce setting would be the right answer.

Fantomas

05-19-2011, 01:41 AM

You brought up a totally different point than the one you quoted. The quoted point regarded endurance start order; your point is about design finals being after the endurance event.

You are right. I mixed it up a bit.

To think that judges just look at the scores and decide who should win design is false. Many judges are experienced and you can see in the event a lot about a car's design, regardless of lap time or eventual endurance score. Many teams will show up with something that looks too small, or too fragile, or too compliant, but the team insists it handles loads and is properly designed. Endurance is a great time to check on that. Sometimes the team is spot on, sometimes they are not. Alternatively, occasionally a team will show up in design with some very trick parts, carbon wheels or variable intakes, which are either not installed or disabled in endurance. This is good to see for the judges if these products were working as advertised.

This is a good point, I missed that. However, I still doubt that a team that DNFs in endurance was ever able to win design in that setup.

You may not like it, but it is a tried and tested formula. Other events may not do it that way, but smaller events typically haven't had so many cars that they needed semi finals and finals, and close enough competition that they were looking for small tie-breakers. I know that overseas events have come a long way in the past 5 years though.

That is probably a huge understatement. All european teams except Oxford Brooks made semi finals and 4.5 of 6 design finalists this year where oversea teams from Europe. Not mentioning that 6.5 european teams reached Top11 at MI2011. I do not know why everyone who only knows the SAE events doubts this, but I have been to several events and at least FS UK and FSG overtook Michigan in both aspects, quality of the cars and quality of the event itself. Go over there and visit these events please, before you judge a book by its cover.

Don't get me wrong. The FSAE events are the root of a great series and I appreciate all the effort that went into it, but somewhere in time they stopped improving and the european events did not stop.

Fantomas

Zac

05-19-2011, 09:24 AM

That is probably a huge understatement. All european teams except Oxford Brooks made semi finals and 4.5 of 6 design finalists this year where oversea teams from Europe. Not mentioning that 6.5 european teams reached Top11 at MI2011. I do not know why everyone who only knows the SAE events doubts this, but I have been to several events and at least FS UK and FSG overtook Michigan in both aspects, quality of the cars and quality of the event itself. Go over there and visit these events please, before you judge a book by its cover.

The reason you're seeing a high percentage of European schools in the top 10 is because only the best funded (and likely best managed/best designed) schools are going to ship their car to the US. You'll see a similar trend among the US teams that compete at FSG. 3 out of 4 US teams (I'm throwing out GFR) that sent their cars to FSG finished in the top 10. European teams also have a significant advantage in the static competitions because they debut their cars at FSUK or FSG rather than MIS (and aren't scrambling to finish stuff at the last minute).

I'm not saying that there aren't differences in the overall level of the competition or how things are run, but my point is that the differences aren't earth shattering.

matt.kalmus

05-19-2011, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Fantomas:
That is probably a huge understatement. All european teams except Oxford Brooks made semi finals and 4.5 of 6 design finalists this year where oversea teams from Europe. Fantomas

Teams that come from Europe have a much higher barrier to entry to come to the US. They need to be prepared, have a team, time & a budget to make it happen.

If you look at the teams that went over the FSG last year from the US/Canada, they all did well in design there too. Not to mention that many of the cars coming to Mich from abroad are competing for the 2nd-4th time. I'd venture to guess that no more than half of the domestic teams had their cars running and practicing before the start of May.

Having an oranization capable of putting together a successful foreign trip is probably highly correlated with having an organization capable of methodically designing, testing & documenting what is required to do well in the design event.

With ~180 teams at American schools, plenty of teams just don't have the # of people or dedicated people to show up and perform like a professional race team. With limited hands-on faculty support at most schools, it's often 5 undergrads working hard to build a car. Their knowledge or willingness to spend time building a true organization is just not there - and often it's the right time investment for the most personal return.

Having been at the last 7 Michigan events, I can say that the quality of competition has gone way up. What is required to do well in both the static & dynamic events has drastically increased and for better or worse, to really place well dynamically you need 2-3 very good, experienced drivers.

Matt

flavorPacket

05-19-2011, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by Zac:
I'm not saying that there aren't differences in the overall level of the competition or how things are run, but my point is that the differences aren't earth shattering.

Having participated and judged in both America and Germany, I could not agree more. There are plenty of cobbled together European cars as well. You just don't see them at MIS.

Charlie

05-19-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Fantomas:
This is a good point, I missed that. However, I still doubt that a team that DNFs in endurance was ever able to win design in that setup.

Doubt all you want, but check the history to know, instead of just guessing.

I do not know why everyone who only knows the SAE events doubts this, but I have been to several events and at least FS UK and FSG overtook Michigan in both aspects, quality of the cars and quality of the event itself. Go over there and visit these events please, before you judge a book by its cover.

This is not really part of the topic, as I never said FSAE-MI was the best. Simply that they have a lot of cars, and many of the best cars in the world. Historically, it was the most competitive. It may not be anymore, but that is irrelevant because I was speaking of the reasoning behind the current design finals schedule. That was formulated many years ago, when it was undeniably the world championship.

bob.paasch

05-19-2011, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Charlie:
Doubt all you want, but check the history to know, instead of just guessing.

Had to go back 10 years: in 2000 RIT was a DNF in endurance but won design. Every Michigan design winner since has finished endurance, although some have been pretty far down in the endurance standings.

Last year in California, GFR was a DNF in endurance but won design.

Fantomas

05-19-2011, 01:53 PM

Doubt all you want, but check the history to know, instead of just guessing.

Ok, after checking the results of the past I have to say that I was wrong...again...seems as if the judges are way more objective than I thought.

This is not really part of the topic, as I never said FSAE-MI was the best. Simply that they have a lot of cars, and many of the best cars in the world. Historically, it was the most competitive. It may not be anymore, but that is irrelevant because I was speaking of the reasoning behind the current design finals schedule.

I was not exactly reffering to your post, but to the many posts that sometimes seem to be surprised that someone says that there might be an event outside the U.S. that is organized a bit better. I just want to encourage everyone, if possible, to take part in FS UK or FSG, be it as a volunteer or a team member.

That was formulated many years ago, when it was undeniably the world championship.

It was clearly the world championship at least until 2008. From that year on it seems as if Michigan, FS UK and FSG are fighting a hard battle for the crown, looking at the competitiveness factor of the FS World Ranking list.

Getting back to the topic: GFRs on track performance was truely amazing. It seemed as if they were flying over the track.
However the fastest autocross lap of Kansas was a hell of a run and Munich, breaking their steering wheel during the second autocross run and doing their last autocross run with a kart steering wheel and in only one gear, was also nice to see ending up in 5th place.

Rochester's DNF in Endurance was a pity, since their car looked nice on the track and it was the BOTS that stopped them, after loosing break fluid due to an open reservoir cap.

The guys from UAS Graz seemed to be praying for the endurance to be over in the last laps, since their car was smoking white from time to time from under the rear bodywork. It looked like an undersized cooling, but turned out to be a rubber hose being burned by the exhaust.

How was the very tight section in the AutoX from a driver's point of view? A lot teams seemed to struggle there.

Fantomas

Rotary Sprocket

05-19-2011, 02:30 PM

The tight sections were definately tight, I blew through the slalom the first time through thinking the gap was a lot larger than it was. It's the first time I can remember needing first gear to navigate a course. All in all I really enjoyed the course this year. It definately tested your car and your skill as a driver.

RacingManiac

05-19-2011, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by flavorPacket:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zac:
I'm not saying that there aren't differences in the overall level of the competition or how things are run, but my point is that the differences aren't earth shattering.

Having participated and judged in both America and Germany, I could not agree more. There are plenty of cobbled together European cars as well. You just don't see them at MIS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, although my experience with FSUK only go up to 2007, for every TUG you have 4-5 last minute cars. Having a smaller event entry cap also limited the number of the smaller teams from entering. Also like someone else mentioned, most EU teams that come here(I think Oxford Brooke is an exception to this historically, as like US/Canadian teams this is their first event of the year) are also running a tried a tested car from the previous season, with Formula SAE being the last eligible event for their cars. Having been in the position of having a developed car at a competition(Formula SAE first then FSUK), the extra time to test and tune the car, and prepare for material, and more data to present to the judges just means you are that much better prepared to do well. Us in Toronto having done well in UK was because of that.

As far as organization goes, having never seen the now storied FSG event its hard to comment. The 2007 and before FSUK was not that much better organized(often worse, IMO, compare to Michigan) from a competitor standpoint. Marshalling issue is well known on this forum....

Fantomas

05-20-2011, 03:33 AM

The 2007 and before FSUK was not that much better organized(often worse, IMO, compare to Michigan) from a competitor standpoint. Marshalling issue is well known on this forum....
Yes, the well known marshalls in the UK...but I like the fact that they allow the teams to use the F1 pits which makes it much more comfortable than the parking lot in Michigan in my opinion. Especially when taking into account the usual weather conditions.
The award ceremony at UK is conducted in a solid tent without wind rushing through it all the time and they have a barbeque before the award ceremony http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fantomas

Luniz

05-20-2011, 04:49 AM

At FSG Award Ceremony there is a free buffet, a live band and FREE BEER! Beat that! ;-)

Garlic

05-20-2011, 06:57 AM

If coddling and comfort is what you want I suggest you look into competitive dog shows.

AxelRipper

05-20-2011, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The 2007 and before FSUK was not that much better organized(often worse, IMO, compare to Michigan) from a competitor standpoint. Marshalling issue is well known on this forum....
Yes, the well known marshalls in the UK...but I like the fact that they allow the teams to use the F1 pits which makes it much more comfortable than the parking lot in Michigan in my opinion. Especially when taking into account the usual weather conditions.
The award ceremony at UK is conducted in a solid tent without wind rushing through it all the time and they have a barbeque before the award ceremony http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll have to find the panorama I have of the NASCAR race at MIS. Our paddock is the lot for all of the drivers' RV's. Their trailers are parked between the garages that we use for static events (which are their garages).

it would be really cool to be paddocked in there, but then we'd have to find another spot for the static events... Maybe pit row?

RacingManiac

05-20-2011, 08:14 AM

Yes the European style tent is nice....even when FSUK was a Bruntingthrope the tents they use was better than the awning we usually get in US. But to be fair, before 2008 the ceremony was held in GM's tech center....

I also don't think any European comp would need storm evacuation.....I remember in 2004 at Silverdome we had to be evacuated from the open lot into a shed for possible tornado and 2006 or 2007 we had to be evacuated into one of the building at FPG....

poe21

05-20-2011, 02:02 PM

GFR, when are you gonna put up your in-car video from competition. I noticed the camera on top of the roll hoop. I'd like to see a couple of 51 second laps!!

TMichaels

05-21-2011, 03:23 AM

If coddling and comfort is what you want I suggest you look into competitive dog shows.

Why have you used the internet instead of sending a messenger on a horse?

I believe that teams perform better, if they feel comfortable, since they are less distracted.
Furthermore the event should be a reward for the work the teams did over the year. There is no reason to make it harder than necessary. An event is stressful enough. I probably lost a year of lifetime for every endurance that I attended as an active team member.

Regards,

Tobias

RobbyObby

05-21-2011, 12:27 PM

Does anyone know how (of even if) the marshalls dealt with cars ignoring blue flags? According to the rulebook, a team should be given a 2 minute time penalty for disobeying a flag on course. I ran out of fingers keeping track of how many teams ran through blue flags during endurance. I understand we're not professional drivers and can become to focused in on driving to notice our surroundings but if you're gonna have slower teams running on course at the same time as the top runners, they should at least emphasize obeying the flags. Watching KU's in car of endurance I can count multiple times that the car in front didn't yield to the flag which probably costed them at least 5-10 seconds every time due the massive speed differential between the cars.
It wasn't just the slower cars either, I personally watching Stuttgart and one of the Graz cars run through flags while on course.
Were the marshalls positioned such that it was hard to see them with the flag? Or could there be some other reason this happened so frequently? IMO, if you're not gonna penalize a car for something, why even put in the regulations at all?
Any opinions?

Canuck Racing

05-22-2011, 11:45 AM

Really? SJSU complaining about slow cars on track? You should be thanking the officials for not pulling you for not meeting the minimum lap time.

What's next? Wisconsin claiming GFR didn't pass sound?

RobbyObby

05-22-2011, 02:15 PM

Woah, Woah, Woah.
Nowhere in my comment do I complain about slow cars being on track. That's for another debate. I was simply referring to teams not obeying blue flags.
Yes, our car was running very slowly in endurance, partly due to our slightly slower car, but mostly due a fuel starvation issue in our fuel system. We obviously had the pace in autocross to be grouped with the cars that we were on track with.
All I'm sayin', is try to understand what a person is trying to say or point out before you blatantly attack them.

Mbirt

05-23-2011, 07:03 AM

What's next? Wisconsin claiming GFR didn't pass sound?

That Wisconsin car sounded beautiful. The transmission loss of a tiny turbo during a no-load sound test at only 6500 rpm is apparently significant. They've reduced compression from stock also. For those of us that only heard it run in endurance, I bet it's surprisingly quiet in a noise test.

RacingManiac

05-23-2011, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by TMichaels:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If coddling and comfort is what you want I suggest you look into competitive dog shows.

Why have you used the internet instead of sending a messenger on a horse?

I believe that teams perform better, if they feel comfortable, since they are less distracted.
Furthermore the event should be a reward for the work the teams did over the year. There is no reason to make it harder than necessary. An event is stressful enough. I probably lost a year of lifetime for every endurance that I attended as an active team member.

Regards,

Tobias </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Making your own tent is very much part of the "real" racing world....While I am not going to complain about having been into the Silverstone F1 paddock or the nice marquee tents when it was in Bruntingthrope(which still has river running through them when it was raining cats and dogs), they are not strictly necessary...

Plus it was fun to poke the rain water from the tent on unsuspecting team members....

Crispy

05-23-2011, 01:31 PM

This is somewhat speculative, but I believe penalizing drivers for missing flags is something the officials reserve for blatant or repeated offenses. It is not something that is done automatically like counting cones or gates.

I didn't see KUs drive, but was it the same car that ignored flags repeatedly or a number of cars? From the events I have attended in the past, it is not uncommon for a driver to miss a flag or two then finally realize whats going on. It's unfortunate for the faster car, but in this case I'm guessing the larger problem was that those cars should not have been together on track to begin with.

It's unfortunate for the competition that some of the fastest cars were not able to demonstrate their full potential. I'm guessing the running order issue will be remedied for next year. Fortunately for teams like KU, they get a second chance in California in a few more weeks.

bob.paasch

05-24-2011, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by RobbyObby:
It wasn't just the slower cars either, I personally watching Stuttgart and one of the Graz cars run through flags while on course.

In their defense, Stuttgart doesn't have a whole lot of experience on the receiving end of blue flags. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Originally posted by Chrispy:
It's unfortunate for the competition that some of the fastest cars were not able to demonstrate their full potential. I'm guessing the running order issue will be remedied for next year. Fortunately for teams like KU, they get a second chance in California in a few more weeks.

My expectation is that California will stick with their traditional fastest->slowest run order. Of course this puts the fastest cars on a cold dirty track, so these cars will not be able to perform to their potential in this case either. Michigan's middle 1/3, fastest 1/3, slowest 1/3 run order was better in that regard. But at least they will all suffer the conditions together.

Luniz

05-25-2011, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by TMichaels:
I probably lost a year of lifetime for every endurance that I attended as an active team member.

Regards,

Tobias

Dammit! That would make me about 36 years old!!!

Bemo

05-25-2011, 01:52 AM

Well, ehm...

That would make me 36 years old too.

Austin B

05-26-2011, 11:18 AM

Here is a link to a narrative of our adventures while we were in the United States: http://obr.brookes.ac.uk/image...s/OBR_FSAEM_2011.pdf (http://obr.brookes.ac.uk/images/stories/OBR_FSAEM_2011.pdf)

Its a bit long, but enjoy!

Mbirt

05-27-2011, 11:30 AM

Austin,

It was great talking to you during design and I'm glad you guys were able to pass sound first try the next morning! I've still got the bag of fiberglass roving under my desk at work that I took with me Friday afternoon to give to you guys. Haha.

RANeff

05-30-2011, 02:17 PM

Here are the pictures I got, that is basically it, as my battery died and I didnt realize it! Ugh.

As many issues as there were with endurance, the event was still a blast, and we're still hoping to see some more pictures from everyone else!

http://www.facebook.com/media/....303793.184988848847 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150187212728848.303793.184988848847)

nick roberts

06-01-2011, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by SAE_intl_girl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MegaDeath:
I just hope Austria and Germany are run better than Michigan was.

Well if you were really unhappy with how the event was organized please be sure to complete the post event survey SAE will be sending it out tomorrow. You should receive it in your email box if you were a student who actually affiliated yourself to the team registration. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anybody else ever receive a survey for the Michigan event?

rmk36

06-01-2011, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by nick roberts:

Anybody else ever receive a survey for the Michigan event?

Yea, came the week after competition.

bob.paasch

06-01-2011, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by rmk36:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nick roberts:

Anybody else ever receive a survey for the Michigan event?

Yea, came the week after competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I received one too.

RANeff

06-01-2011, 04:27 PM

As did I...

PBR-keith

06-05-2011, 11:34 AM

Pictures of a bunch of other teams in Michigan.
http://www.facebook.com/media/...4304.137659042969683 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.149986371736950.34304.137659042969683)

Mostly pictures of our team.
http://www.facebook.com/media/...3286.137659042969683 (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.147584398643814.33286.137659042969683)

Make sure you like the page for more updates and pictures from Cali.

Keith
U of Manitoba - Polar Bear Racing

SAE_intl_girl

06-17-2011, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by nick roberts:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SAE_intl_girl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MegaDeath:
I just hope Austria and Germany are run better than Michigan was.

Well if you were really unhappy with how the event was organized please be sure to complete the post event survey SAE will be sending it out tomorrow. You should receive it in your email box if you were a student who actually affiliated yourself to the team registration. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anybody else ever receive a survey for the Michigan event? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to actually affiliate yourself online to your team's registration page so we have your email contact to send the survey; another reason why completing the online registration is important. Hopefully you completed this for California...it's your second chance to provide feedback.