Team Motivation

[Ianthegypo]

Does any other team doing Formula Student or Formula FSAE etc etc have problems with team motivation?

Our FS project is run as part of the university curriculum, therefore making it an important part of the degree. Our team is unfortunately suffering from a few members of the team who do not put much effort in, leaving it to the core team members who work far too much. Team members frequently do not attend meetings, do not participate within the project, and see it mainly as a easy route to marks, rather than making the effort to do well.

This year we feel we have a nice, clean design, but due to lack of motivation within the team, feel the design will not be done justice. We have 15 members, with around 7/8 members putting the majority of the work in.

Do other unis make the project part of the degree, or is it mainly extra-curricular? Do others suffer from these problems?

Ian Davis
Team Leader
City University, London

[Ianthegypo]

Does any other team doing Formula Student or Formula FSAE etc etc have problems with team motivation?

Our FS project is run as part of the university curriculum, therefore making it an important part of the degree. Our team is unfortunately suffering from a few members of the team who do not put much effort in, leaving it to the core team members who work far too much. Team members frequently do not attend meetings, do not participate within the project, and see it mainly as a easy route to marks, rather than making the effort to do well.

This year we feel we have a nice, clean design, but due to lack of motivation within the team, feel the design will not be done justice. We have 15 members, with around 7/8 members putting the majority of the work in.

Do other unis make the project part of the degree, or is it mainly extra-curricular? Do others suffer from these problems?

Ian Davis
Team Leader
City University, London

[Conor]

That situation sounds pretty similiar to ours. We have, I believe, around 15 members, but only about 8-10 core members are in the shop regularly. Don't get me wrong however, those 8-10 people are the only reason this team is happening. As for credit, our school offers us nothing for the project. We do it simply because we love racing and love building a race car. Sadly, we end up devoting so much time to the team, that our grades begin to suffer. Atleast this is my case. I wish we could get credit for doing this, but for the things I've learned, the friendships I've acquired, and the struggles I've had, earning a grade doesn't really matter.

[cieutag]

I wish we had 8-10 core team members we have about 4. No university credit, controlled acsess to shop makes it hard to work alot, also much of our team including myslef has to work to put themselves in college so its hard to keep people in.
It seems when the initial go-fast racecar idea fades and they see design, redesign, test, redesign, build, redesign, etc,etc. everyone sort of leaves. I have a feeling there will only be three of us that design and build this thing.

Oh well it will make us better engineers.

[Matt Herset]

I know for our team we have about 4 core team members rebuilding our car for 2006 and then about 3 to 4 more members working on the frame for our 2007 car. Its hard to get everyone on the same page and with the same motivation. It only seems to happen when the team is up against a deadline or when our advisor comes an give a "motivational" speech. But as cieutag put it "it makes us better engineers"

[Garlic]

Welcome to FSAE... and the world.

There will always be people that work harder than others. And in college, there are lots of other priorities (studying, and of course partying). Not everyone will put FSAE first.

Your car will never be as good as it can be either. It's all about getting the best compromises worked out and not designing something you can't finish in time.

If you have 8-10 people working hard, that's one of the best situations I've heard of. We never had more than half that.

[Steve Yao]

Its the old 80/20 rule. 20% of the people, do 80% of the work. Its the way things are.

[RiNaZ]

I personally think that FSAE shouldnt be used as a class credit. It actually create more work for the team. You usually have some kids in class that design some parts that are just too complicated. And to make matters worse, he/she usually isnt in the shop for you to criticize their design.

So you ended up having to redesign everything from scratch.It sucks for those who are not taking it for credits, and are the core of the team. Reason being is that, you have like 20-30 students working on the design during the day, and those 5-6 core members not having any clue of why some system or parts are designed that way.

It's hard that some students are just doing it for grades but i dont think it's entirely their fault, but im sure there are better ways to reward those core members without having to create more trouble by bringing in guys who are just doing it for the grades.

[Andrew Del Donno]

I disagree, I think credit should be available, but only in such away that the amount of credit, is << less than the amount of work commited. So pretty much only those already dedicated can get it. That being said there's almost no way to get credit here (at brown) save our independent design project where it's pretty easy to grab a credit through FSAE, but no one who was not already on the team would do so.

Replying to the original topic of the thread, we follow the 80/20 rule pretty well too.

[RonBurgundy01]

In the past 2 years we have had probably 7-10 people who have done a lot of work (obviously some more than others) however this year we will be designing/racing with only about 5 or 6 core members. Hopefully we can get other students to do costing and management stuff to take some of that pressure off us.

I think the key is (and i'm basing our team this year around it) to not try and re-invent the wheel every year. As long as you have got a good starting point from the previous year then you only need to change what is bad, not what is good. Once you get a really good base car, then you can start to look at doing more fancy stuff like a 500cc V8 etc etc

We are trying like hell to get SOME credit from the uni too. It is kinda like pushing a Valiant Charger up a 50 degree hill though. We get some respect from the lecturers but no actual credit! That sux!

Good luck Ian

Cheers

[Hammock]

We have turned to a process that interviews Juniors if they want to be on the team for their senior year, and we have the Freshmen go through a teaming/leadership/basic systems class. Maybe such things can help you all.

[Steve Yao]

I understand Cornell goes through a screening/interview process for all their team members as well.

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/2406...676055402#7676055402 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/2406044402/r/7676055402#7676055402)

[Scott Sinclair]

If your planning for the longer term, taking next years team, or the main people in next years team with you to the comp is the best way to motivate people.

We generally took at least 10 people from the following years team to the comp, and without fail they were the most motivated the next year.

It gives them a clear view of whats expected and what they are working towards.


Scott Sinclair
UWA Motorsport 2003-2005

[Mike Claffey]

Getting pissed alot with your team members is a secret to success.

[fade]

agreed http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Homemade WRX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Claffey:
Getting pissed alot with your team members is a secret to success. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
yeah, but sometimes it backfires

[Garlic]

You know he means getting drunk right?

[Jersey Tom]

It works well.

Personally, my greatest motivation is doing things out of spite.

[Bill Kunst]

When I was team captain...
We had a bunch of guys who were new and we were able to bring along as part of the team. Their response: Cool, great, now I have Ideas, blah blah blah.
Their performance based off of this: dismal.

Recruiting and interviewing members may be the best method. I would assume that the interview team would have to be wicked mean up front, as to weed out those who will likely have their mom's call you and yell at you for being so hard on little johnny.

[Homemade WRX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Garlic:
You know he means getting drunk right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
yeah, we are a drinking team with a racing problem http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[JR @ CFS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill Kunst:
weed out those who will likely have their mom's call you and yell at you for being so hard on little johnny. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look, she only did it once!

Gaining no credit from your Uni is tough! At QUB, you gain credit for your project and they work on a system whereby team mates rate each other and this contributes to a certain % of your final mark.

It can be tough for the team when you have the pressures of the rest of your Uni work placed upon you. You have to put the whole thing into perspective...would you rather do well in your degree which places you well for getting a full time job and basically the rest of your life...or dedicate your Uni life to building a great car and finishing on the number 1 spot. The answer is both, but you have to find a balance between the two http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Awarding people with discounts on transport costs for the events is always good. Regular meetings, a helping hand when it is needed and that simple "thank-you" go a long way. A swift boot in the a$$ also does a good job sometimes!

Thats my two cents worth http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bill Kunst]

sorry johnny http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[paddy]

What annoys me most is people manageing to turn their initial task into a year long objective, and on the simple jobs too. I think just how long does it take to design a dashboard will be my next pub discussion

Cheers Paddy

[js10coastr]

"Beatings will continue until moral improves."

[RiNaZ]

it can be hard working with the same ppl 12 hours a day, day in day out. Everything can get old really quick.

Going to the shop, is like going to work for me now. Not much fun anymore i must say.

But if what mike claffey says is true ... then i guess ... what's another month and a half ...

[Conor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by js10coastr:
"Beatings will continue until moral improves." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are Murder by Death lyrics... very sweet band.

[SpdRcr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Conor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by js10coastr:
"Beatings will continue until moral improves." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are Murder by Death lyrics... very sweet band. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


haha i saw it on a bumper sticker on the back of a lanscaping truck.

[Jersey Tom]

I'm down in the shop all the time (sadly). But its cool. Our team is super chill. And there's always fun to be had..

"Damn, looks like this pulled a bit when it was welded. Might have to take the oxy acetylene to it and bend it back straight.."

"OH SNAP! SHOTGUN TORCH!"

"Ah shit, Tom beat me to it"

I seriously love that thing.

[kwancho]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SpdRcr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Conor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by js10coastr:
"Beatings will continue until moral improves." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are Murder by Death lyrics... very sweet band. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha i saw it on a bumper sticker on the back of a lanscaping truck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also.... Monty Python?

[KevinD]

if all else fails, offer up a ryobi rodeo to the new guys, and crown a champion. heres how it is done:

take a cordless drill. put it on the fastest setting and lock the clutch if it has one (drill mode).

chuck up a medium/long handled screw driver as tight as possible such that the handle is forward of the drill and the screw driver shaft is what the chuck is gripping. next, take a zip tie and wrap it over the drill trigger and handle, so that when you pull the zip tie tight, the drill is spinning at full speed with the screw driver handle spinning. next, let the rodeo begin! try to grab the handle of the screw driver while it is spinning and hold on as long as possible. you win if you can grab hold of the screw driver first (both hands are usually needed to start), and then try and hold down the drill and cut off the zip tie. the 18V drills work best as the batteries are much heavier and make it a ton harder to hold onto. i learned this working at circuit city back in michigan http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif i caution you to only use your OWN drill because if the person doing the rodeo is weak or new, the drill will go flying to the ground. no one wants a broken drill. it also helps to do it over rubber mats, grass or other softer surfaces. less likely to break the drill.

now let the games begin!!!

p.s. i can see it now, in detroit we will have a ryobi rodeo between the teams after big bucks http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif doing it slightly intoxicated makes it much harder!

[SpdRcr]

.......

[magicweed]

wow...

[absolutepressure]

Wow, sounds like it'll rip the callus' right off your hand.

[KevinD]

or for the faint of heart, just try doing things you would normally do with friends. over half our team regularly go mountain biking at local trails. We always enjoy a good break to go to the nearest bar/grill. team moral has not been a problem at all this year for us. We have Formula 1 parties every race with brots, beer and friends. and it's not like we have only 5 people. we have 18 extremely active team members, and had as many as 30 participating before winter break (i think the break scared a bunch off).

[KevinD]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by absolutepressure:
Wow, sounds like it'll rip the callus' right off your hand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no way... just grab hold, don't let it slip to much. start the drill on a table facing you, cup the screwdriver handle like you would a cup of hot chocolate on a cold day, and grab hold! it is absolutely hillarious.. but once you've tried it once you realize it is not that hard. like doing backflips on a snowboard or something, takes balls of steel at first, then you find it is easy.


i'll make a video some night and post it up demonstrating the proper rodeo technique http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (may not be until the austrailia GP thought, cause its more fun with more people trying it)

[JR @ CFS]

wonder would they make this a dynamic event http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Urvina]

So what do you do when no one on the team cares about the engineering aspects and wants to build a hillbilly go-kart for donuts in the local PD lot? There must be some way to commucate important concepts with these people...

[Dick Golembiewski]

When I was a faculty advisor, I successfully got my students up to 13 quarter credits for working on SAE student design projects:

3 credit vehicle dynamics class
3 credit vehicle design project class
1 credit senior design project - I (project definition and planning)
3 credit senior design project - II (project work)
3 credit senior design project - III (more project work - this class was optional, and not all other students took it. The SA folks did, as their projects were of sufficient scope.)

To take the vehicle design class and be approved to do their senior design project on one of the vehicle designs, the students need my permission to register. I only gave that permission if the students worked on one of the projects in a year prior to their becoming a senior, and if they demonstarted sufficient dedication and committment.

I still had students drop out during the sequence.

Still, those with sufficient motivation received credit for their work.