What is FSAE coming to?

[albino_insect]

I've been thinking about the premise of the FSAE alot lately and some things just don't add up. The car is supposed to be designed for a proposed autocross class. How many autocrossers do you know that care about the fuel economy of their car while they race?

It seems to be public knowledge that judges frown uppon going too far outside the box. What's to learn if you're sticking to "the box?" Where's the category for "neato factor." That carbon fiber bodywork may not save a whole lot of weight, but sure is cool!

Pardon the rant, but I just think FSAE need to become less about points and more about learning.

[albino_insect]

I've been thinking about the premise of the FSAE alot lately and some things just don't add up. The car is supposed to be designed for a proposed autocross class. How many autocrossers do you know that care about the fuel economy of their car while they race?

It seems to be public knowledge that judges frown uppon going too far outside the box. What's to learn if you're sticking to "the box?" Where's the category for "neato factor." That carbon fiber bodywork may not save a whole lot of weight, but sure is cool!

Pardon the rant, but I just think FSAE need to become less about points and more about learning.

[magicweed]

I can see where you're coming from, but the best answer is a rhetorical question. How do you get points?

You get points by learning how to make a better car. You can't make a competetive car for this competition without having done some serious research and analysis. I know that a team member in charge of frame design and fabrication had no knowledge of this when he first started out. To step up to the task, he looked at everything he could regarding frame design and fabrication, from the UMR paper, to stock car chassis'. I sat with him going over frame meber locations and the benefit of bonded panels for hours one day as he taught himself FEA to analyze one of his 30 sketches. The result is an experience hes not likely to forget, and from what he learned, he made the chassis almost 10 times stiffer in FEA than his first iteration. If you don't think the competition is already ripe with learning, then I suggest you reevaluate what you think. The points are there to assess how much you have learned, and whether you can successfully implement what you've designed from that knowledge. A team member that built our suspension last year was grilled by Claude last year, and he learned his lesson. You may have built it, but if you don't know what you're talking about, you don't get points. Hopefully that will be rectified this year.

My point is that theres more than enough opportunity to learn in this event, you just need to attempt it. I'm and EE and I've been toiling off and on with some basic CFD on an aero design. However, my latest effort is an all inclusive braking and acceleration excel sheet, complete with maximum tractive effort curves. But I realize I may be a bit more dedicated to the project than others.

[Cement Legs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albino_insect:
I've been thinking about the premise of the FSAE alot lately and some things just don't add up. The car is supposed to be designed for a proposed autocross class. How many autocrossers do you know that care about the fuel economy of their car while they race?

It seems to be public knowledge that judges frown uppon going too far outside the box. What's to learn if you're sticking to "the box?" Where's the category for "neato factor." That carbon fiber bodywork may not save a whole lot of weight, but sure is cool!

Pardon the rant, but I just think FSAE need to become less about points and more about learning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can see it now... 10 yrs in the future... Im doing a presentation for Monster Inc., the world's largest engineering conglomorate and at the end of the presentation the CEO asks me to justify part of our design proposal and i respond....I dunno but isnt it "NEATO".

As much fun as it can be to just throw around ideas and laugh and have a good time, this project really reflects a serious work environment. I think the judges, for the most part, have determined the 'dimensions of the box' you refer to from past experience (much more than we have) and knowledge. It is true that new ideas can improve on things and it seems to me that if they are legitamite they will be rewarded.

As far a fuel economy goes, if I remember correctly, there is a spot in the rules that describes eligibility of drivers. In this section they limit drivers to school students because this is to be treated as an engineering competition and not just another race.

I would also agree with MagicWeed on the learning point.... I feel that in 2 1/2 years of research, design, analysis, procurement, construction etc. etc. I have gained more engineering experience than the typical Co-op or intern student. All that and I haven't made it to a competition yet. (25 minutes and full, http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)

[js10coastr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albino_insect:
I've been thinking about the premise of the FSAE alot lately and some things just don't add up. The car is supposed to be designed for a proposed autocross class. How many autocrossers do you know that care about the fuel economy of their car while they race?

It seems to be public knowledge that judges frown uppon going too far outside the box. What's to learn if you're sticking to "the box?" Where's the category for "neato factor." That carbon fiber bodywork may not save a whole lot of weight, but sure is cool!

Pardon the rant, but I just think FSAE need to become less about points and more about learning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sure the comp is designed around an autocross class... lets just say that this proposed autocross class gives points for fuel economy, points for being cost effective, and points for some other oddball things.

You're an engineer and you have to decide what the overall goal is, and what the best way to achieve that goal is. What this competition does is more than just teach you about design and vehicle dynamics... it teaches you how to set goals, and design for them. If there are cost constraints... or an efficiency award, it's just another design constraint. Just something else to design for, to take into account.

The way I see it, the fuel economy, and costing are rules that make the box smaller. But it is you, the engineer, that must think outside of that box. How can you think outside a box if the box is infinately huge? or if it doesn't exist?

As for the "neato" factor... there are tons of innovative ideas out there. You just have to look for them... sometimes these innovations don't work out due to lack of testing, or maybe they aren't the best design for the competiton.

Just a few examples of "neato" things that have worked: Take a look at the UWA car... tons of innovative ideas. Cornell had/has a mechanical paddle shifter... very difficult to package and design, but the best solution in my mind. RMIT... successful with a 450.

There are tons more out there, but you just have to ask yourself. Am I being innovative just to be different, or can I come up with a design that better meets the overall goals by being innovative?

[james17]

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/57210793921/p/1

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Fuel economy??? We run our cars for 20 minutes on say a gallon of gas. 20 minutes of pure adreneline for at must 4 bucks....only reason I would even consider gas milage is for tank size and weight, but other then that give it hell with power and forget about tree huggers and empty wallets. We are in a time where cars are getting some of the best gas milage ever, but also some of the worse in the past years(suv's srt-10 powered trucks, sportscars ect...)

On that same line hats off the the engineers at GM who are pulling 500 horse out of there new Vette and still getting mid to upper 20's miles per gallon running on all 8 cylinders.