Chassis FSAE Papers

[Boofa]

I've found some Academic papers from **** uni all about chassis design etc.

Be great for anyone doing a research project about FSAE chassis, probably a bit late this for this year though.


Oh,... one more thing, i've found some hideous assumptions in these papers. I'm not even evil enough to tell u who wrote them they're terrible. It's almost like he didn't expect anyone to read them.

See all Aussie teams in afew days at the comp.

Boofa

[Boofa]

I've found some Academic papers from **** uni all about chassis design etc.

Be great for anyone doing a research project about FSAE chassis, probably a bit late this for this year though.


Oh,... one more thing, i've found some hideous assumptions in these papers. I'm not even evil enough to tell u who wrote them they're terrible. It's almost like he didn't expect anyone to read them.

See all Aussie teams in afew days at the comp.

Boofa

[nathan s]

Boofa, could I get a copy of those? My chassis guys could always use some new reading material.

Thanks,

[Tony K]

Papers on tube chassis or monocoque design? Because if it's monocoque design, I bet I have a good idea who wrote them...

[Johnny B]

Mind sending the link my way? To late to help this year, but can't hurt to learn

[flo]

Hi

I wpould like to get a copy,too.

florian.rinkes@lionsracing.de

thanks

flo

[RickyRacer]

I would like to add my name to the list if possible. Thanks.
Ricky
Long Beach State

[PedalOnTheRight]

can i get a copy too please??

eej1@cec.wustl.edu

[mtg]

Here's a paper that's worth reading:

Chassis Paper (http://campus.umr.edu/fsae/library/sae_paper/)

It was written around 1997, so a few things have changed, but it's still useful.

[nathan s]

I have that one. It is very good.

[vandit]

i would also like to have the papers.....
thanx

[David Dagnino]

I'd Like the papers too. A friend of mine is doing his thesis about chassis and those might be usefull for him. They can help my team too, but for 2007 because it's too late for 2006.

Please send them to
davidagnino@gmail.com

[RickyRacer]

Sorry I forgot to put my email adress.
rickyracer99@gmail.com
thanks
ricky

[bettonracing]

Please send me a copy as well.

bettonracing@yahoo.com

[Karina]

i know its late but can you send me the papers, please...thanks



good luck
karina mendoza
FSAE UCAB

[thunderbird]

can u send me the papers too...... km new & m learning... plzz


azeez_coolhunk@yahoo.co.in

[Phillip P]

I'd love a copy of those papers as well. Thanks

pprejean@usc.edu

[jowen]

I would enjoy having those too. Thanks! I have also written a short paper for my successors about suspension design. I can send it to those who are interested...

email: joawen(at)ltu.se

[Ben Beacock]

speaking of papers.. does anyone know a source for SAE papers through the Canadian university library systems? I've tried a few library tutorials on RACER and TRELLIS but can't seem to figure out where they would be.

[TG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben Beacock:
speaking of papers.. does anyone know a source for SAE papers through the Canadian university library systems? I've tried a few library tutorials on RACER and TRELLIS but can't seem to figure out where they would be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe it depends on if the library subscribes to SAE online library or not. ASU does not have it (they claim it's rediculously expensive) so I have to wait until I go back home to get the papers from University of Michigan (used to work there as a research assistant and my account there still works).

Tim Gruhl
ASU Motorsports

[wild_hare]

We're competing for the first time this year. Could I get a copy of those papers too?

[raska]

Ben, we get them pretty easily through the UBC library: http://toby.library.ubc.ca/resources/infopage.cfm?id=737 Going the same route around your libraries site I get stuff like this: http://trellis3.tug-libraries.on.ca/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.c...20060929072448&SID=1 (http://trellis3.tug-libraries.on.ca/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=10&ti=1,10&Search%5FArg=sae&SL=None&Search%5FCode=TALL&CNT=25&PID=3212&SEQ=20060929072448&SID=1)

[SURFER1316]

hey can I get those sent to me too. Thanks in advance

cmanolio@eden.rutgers.edu

[Smasheart]

I'd Like the papers too.
If you e-mail to me... appreciate it...

smasheart@hanmail.net

[Siddharth Mandal]

we need them too could you please mail them to
mandalsiddharth@yahoo.co.in

[Ben Beacock]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raska:
Ben, we get them pretty easily through the UBC library: http://toby.library.ubc.ca/resources/infopage.cfm?id=737 Going the same route around your libraries site I get stuff like this: http://trellis3.tug-libraries.on.ca/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.c...20060929072448&SID=1 (http://trellis3.tug-libraries.on.ca/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=10&ti=1,10&Search%5FArg=sae&SL=None&Search%5FCode=TALL&CNT=25&PID=3212&SEQ=20060929072448&SID=1) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've put in an interlibrary loan request for a paper, but the access on Trellis is for Waterloo only. Even if it does go through, I've got 27 other papers I want to check out and that would be a long process to request each one.
I may have to drive over there and see if I can download them on campus.

[bettonracing]

I guess I won't know for sure if the purpose of this thread is really dead if I don't ask. Please send papers to bettonracing@gmail.com as well if there's anybody with them still out there.

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton
SPSU Alumni

[BA]

Geez, I hope the original comment wasn't about myself -- if it was, you suck and I quit.

Being a former frame designer/builder, it's good to see such interest in the topic. I've got a few goodies for you frame/chassis nuts.

You can find an SAE paper on frame design and optimization at SAE (http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2006-01-1009). I'm not going to give it out -- it's 10 bucks for crying out loud (not that I get any kick backs). The paper is centered around the methodology for creating a sound frame, but it's not a cookbook -- you still have to be engineers.

I've also got a piece of software out there for aiding the frame optimization process, and it goes along with my thesis. Both are available at SourceForge.net (http://sourceforge.net/projects/esop/) free of charge under an open source liscence. This, like the SAE paper, will also require you to be an engineer. It's a bit archaic, but if you spend the time to figure it out and use it properly, it CAN give some pretty good results.

Good luck out there, and enjoy it while you've got it.

[TG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BA:
Geez, I hope the original comment wasn't about myself -- if it was, you suck and I quit.

Being a former frame designer/builder, it's good to see such interest in the topic. I've got a few goodies for you frame/chassis nuts.

You can find an SAE paper on frame design and optimization at SAE (http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2006-01-1009). I'm not going to give it out -- it's 10 bucks for crying out loud (not that I get any kick backs). The paper is centered around the methodology for creating a sound frame, but it's not a cookbook -- you still have to be engineers.

I've also got a piece of software out there for aiding the frame optimization process, and it goes along with my thesis. Both are available at SourceForge.net (http://sourceforge.net/projects/esop/) free of charge under an open source liscence. This, like the SAE paper, will also require you to be an engineer. It's a bit archaic, but if you spend the time to figure it out and use it properly, it CAN give some pretty good results.

Good luck out there, and enjoy it while you've got it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brian,

I was planning on using your program, which is awesome btw, but the constraints everybody is telling me has sort of precluded needing much in the way of tube placement optimization. So all of the optimization is pretty much coming down to ANSYS, unfortunately.

[cmeissen]

Hi if this is still alive could I get the papers too

cmeissen@gmail.com

Thanks

[BA]

It's good to hear some feedback!

I've dealt with the same thing where suspension has to have THESE locations and engine must be in THAT location and the rules mandate THOSE tubes, etc. Sometimes you can get them to give you a window to work with, but having worked on other systems myself, I understand the need to pin down frame pickups. If you look at the frame optimization in my thesis, you'll notice that the shape of the frame doesn't change much just for these reasons.

You CAN get some use out of optimization IF you have some extra time by using the software to only size the tubes (and maybe the placement of a few nodes). Just run that part of it on 4 or 5 frame concepts and compare the resultant weights. Then you run a little torsional rigidity on each weight-refined concept using my FEA program (this is the easy part since the optimization software outputs the refined frame geometry to a new file) and evaluate the trade-offs.

This is the method I used in my last year and I was pretty pleased with the resulting frame (it might be in my thesis, I forget now). The SAE paper goes into more detail on creating those 4 or 5 concepts.

[bettonracing]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BA:
Geez, I hope the original comment wasn't about myself -- if it was, you suck and I quit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If by original comment u're referring to my post then no, it wasn't about you.

[BA]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Boofa:
I've found some Academic papers from **** uni all about chassis design etc.

Be great for anyone doing a research project about FSAE chassis, probably a bit late this for this year though.


Oh,... one more thing, i've found some hideous assumptions in these papers. I'm not even evil enough to tell u who wrote them they're terrible. It's almost like he didn't expect anyone to read them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I should have quoted the first time, but thanks -- you don't suck, and I haven't quit yet.

[Kenny T Cornett]

Cool program... well appreciated!

A little off topic... but not by much...


I have an interesting question that I'm sure no one has done before. With the SolidWorks sponsorship (we applied, hoping to get), our team has taken a look at some SolidWorks add-ins that may help with design flexibilty. With my personal previous background in product design and CAD, I have come across some cool "evolution" products for SolidWorks.

Here is one...
http://www.genometri.com/

You make constraints for your drawings and then it goes through and changes all the values you let it to make an infinite number of designs (you can scale that number back based on a deviation from normal).

What do you all think about using this sort of software to make several frame designs and then throw them into FEA to see which one shows the most potential? This takes away a lot of creativity and makes us rely more heavily on FEA, but by the same token if we define the constraints properly the first time we may get variations within a specified limit that are all acceptable and all useable.

I would think this to be especially useful for making the lightest frame possible, then use FEA to determine if it is strong enough (test the top 5 or something)


Thoughts?

[BA]

Wow, that looks right up my alley! I would be curious to see how well it works when teamed up with FEA -- it looks to be very aesthetics oriented. The other hard part would be getting it to work with a frame solid model and the frame FEA. Maybe if you could get it to work well with wireframes...

This is the type of optimization my software is lacking -- topology or layout optimization. It would be a little more complete if it could generate various connectivities and node configurations in addition to size and shape optimization. Sounds like a fun master's thesis... Any takers? My software is open source, you know.

[Steven Casper]

I would also like to get a copy of the papers if it's still possible.

steven.casper@colorado.edu

[McBee]

my team is trying to design a chasis.ithink those papers can be very useful for us.because this will be our first competition.i appreciate if u can send me a copy of those papers.

[bettonracing]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kenny T Cornett:
I have an interesting question that I'm sure no one has done before. With the SolidWorks sponsorship (we applied, hoping to get), our team has taken a look at some SolidWorks add-ins that may help with design flexibilty. With my personal previous background in product design and CAD, I have come across some cool "evolution" products for SolidWorks.

Here is one...
http://www.genometri.com/

You make constraints for your drawings and then it goes through and changes all the values you let it to make an infinite number of designs (you can scale that number back based on a deviation from normal).

What do you all think about using this sort of software to make several frame designs and then throw them into FEA to see which one shows the most potential? This takes away a lot of creativity and makes us rely more heavily on FEA, but by the same token if we define the constraints properly the first time we may get variations within a specified limit that are all acceptable and all useable.

Thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depending on your team's time constraints and manpower, I'd look into using a slightly different design intent and use a VBA (w/ design tables) or write your own program using VB6 to adjust & rebuild your constraints. Use the mirror feature where applicable and if writing your own program, have it suppress the mirror feature while other parameters are being changed (or suppress it manually if not writing your own program).

Throughout the process of doing this for a chassis, u'd be "armed and dangerous" enough to integrate suspension design (Cosmos Motion anyone?) and even tell the computer to "test these different configurations after hrs and just show me the results in the morning".

And this can all be done with MSExcel & SldWx. Your future boss will love u for it, your future wife will be happy about your paycheck, your kids and grandkids will go to... and the world will be a better place.

Search for SldWx+(API's/VBA/VB6/design tables).

Regards,
H. Kurt Betton
SPSU Alumni '06

[Kenny T Cornett]

I actually sent in an information request to them for us. They seem really interested in the program and want a copy of our proposal and all relevant information http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Maybe we'll be the first FSAE team with genetic models http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Esin]

I would like the papers too!!

esin_ckr@yahoo.de

[nrg_sid]

Hey Boofa mate!
Can i please get a copy of these papers! we are starting our car from scratch and these papers might definitely help us.
will be very generous of you.
Thankyou.

Sid Bandi
Member Formula Student (DriveTrain)
Nottingham
eayxsb@nottingham.ac.uk

[Bookhout]

If still alive can I get the papers. A little late I know

[Bookhout]

sorry Email mbookhout@gmail.com

[to the edge]

hey guys, i know this is really late, but my team could also use those chassis papers, thanks

email = kb.cook@student.qut.edu.au

[bettonracing]

Before this thread takes off again, AFAIK, the papers are out of circulation. A couple of us requested in the last surge and heard nothing.

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton