Bodywork Design Considerations?

[Theomania]

I am starting to design a car body for next year's car. Are there any design considerations besides the look? How to make it help the performance (such as make it more aerodynamic or maybe create some down forces, or preserve the heat of tire)? Any direction will be appreciated!

[Theomania]

I am starting to design a car body for next year's car. Are there any design considerations besides the look? How to make it help the performance (such as make it more aerodynamic or maybe create some down forces, or preserve the heat of tire)? Any direction will be appreciated!

[Menisk]

From the sound of your post I'm guessing you're a new team. In your case I'd just be focussing on getting something done that's primarily cheap and if you have the resources, lightweight. Fibreglass isn't a bad place to start, but if you're really pressed for time and cash, sheet metal and rivets will work fine.

When you're just starting don't overstretch yourselves, just get a simple car on track because for a new team that's a decent feat in itself. After that you can look at building the team up and producing some more impressive stuff.

[Dunk Mckay]

I'll second the above. Just adding that you need to make sure you get adequate airflow to your radiator, I'm not suggesting you need to go down the ram air route necessarily, but that you ensure your radiator duct outlet (that is if you have one) doesn't exit into an area of high pressure (especially not higher than the inlet). Usually not a problem, but you can never be too careful. Also the other obvious things: don't stick your exhaust in close proximity to the body work; make sure it's all held on properly, i.e. don't make fixing methods an afterthought; etc.

[Bemo]

Good thing (as always) is to read the rules. There are a couple of things there concerning the bodywork. Every years there are teams who miss that and get in trouble at scrutineering, make sure you're not one of them.

[Theomania]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Menisk:
From the sound of your post I'm guessing you're a new team. In your case I'd just be focussing on getting something done that's primarily cheap and if you have the resources, lightweight. Fibreglass isn't a bad place to start, but if you're really pressed for time and cash, sheet metal and rivets will work fine.

When you're just starting don't overstretch yourselves, just get a simple car on track because for a new team that's a decent feat in itself. After that you can look at building the team up and producing some more impressive stuff. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, the team isn't new. Just I am new to bodywork design. We've used carbon fiber before and it worked pretty well. So I am trying to see
if anything can be improved besides the look.

[Theomania]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dunk Mckay:
I'll second the above. Just adding that you need to make sure you get adequate airflow to your radiator, I'm not suggesting you need to go down the ram air route necessarily, but that you ensure your radiator duct outlet (that is if you have one) doesn't exit into an area of high pressure (especially not higher than the inlet). Usually not a problem, but you can never be too careful. Also the other obvious things: don't stick your exhaust in close proximity to the body work; make sure it's all held on properly, i.e. don't make fixing methods an afterthought; etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok I see.
Thanks!

[Theomania]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bemo:
Good thing (as always) is to read the rules. There are a couple of things there concerning the bodywork. Every years there are teams who miss that and get in trouble at scrutineering, make sure you're not one of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I looked for rules regarding bodywork, the only one I can find is:

B2.2 Bodywork
There must be no openings through the bodywork into the driver compartment from the front of the
vehicle back to the roll bar main hoop or firewall other than that required for the cockpit opening.
Minimal openings around the front suspension components are allowed


Anything else I need to be aware of?

[Lorenzo Pessa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Theomania:
Oh, the team isn't new. Just I am new to bodywork design. We've used carbon fiber before and it worked pretty well. So I am trying to see
if anything can be improved besides the look. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want to have something more on aero, think about some CFD studies.

You can work on accessibility of parts covered by bodywork (if you don't have a monocoque).
Make good overlapping between panels.
Try to use fibers in a smart way to have light and stiff panels.

[Ben W]

If you're going to brag about reducing drag to design judges, be sure to back it up with either (preferably both) real world results of how much drag you removed and why it even is worth doing on an FSAE car. Last year we had a HUGE diffuser for maximizing downforce and our aero guy got hounded on why he chose that length, was the drag worth it, does aero help lap times considerably.

I'm not gonna tell you drag isn't or is important in FSAE. I will say that there are probably more important things to worry about.

-Ben

[Francis Gagné]

Basic but too much forgotten, think of removal of the bodywork or access holes/panels to the different components (Brake over-travel switch, brake balance, suspension adjustments, etc). Or simply to show the systems while judging fast removable parts are very useful. If you think of it in the design stage it will be much simpler/faster to repair and tune the car when it most matters!

We learned that the hard way, our 2010 front bodywork took 3 guys and 20 mins to remove, about the same for sidepods. Our 2011 took a dzus key, 1 guy and 20 seconds to remove or reinstall and maybe an hour more to design the bodywork thinking about that aspect.

[Bemo]

It is not the only rule regarding the bodywork. There are also a few words about edges and their minimum radii http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Danny B Clark]

I agree but it has to be done right.

[Theomania]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lorenzo Pessa:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Theomania:
Oh, the team isn't new. Just I am new to bodywork design. We've used carbon fiber before and it worked pretty well. So I am trying to see
if anything can be improved besides the look. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want to have something more on aero, think about some CFD studies.

You can work on accessibility of parts covered by bodywork (if you don't have a monocoque).
Make good overlapping between panels.
Try to use fibers in a smart way to have light and stiff panels. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! So could you be more specific on how to have light and stiff panels?

[Theomania]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben W:
If you're going to brag about reducing drag to design judges, be sure to back it up with either (preferably both) real world results of how much drag you removed and why it even is worth doing on an FSAE car. Last year we had a HUGE diffuser for maximizing downforce and our aero guy got hounded on why he chose that length, was the drag worth it, does aero help lap times considerably.

I'm not gonna tell you drag isn't or is important in FSAE. I will say that there are probably more important things to worry about.

-Ben </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, definitely. Aero is not that important, but
since I am working on just the body, I'd like to
make it a little better

[Theomania]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bemo:
It is not the only rule regarding the bodywork. There are also a few words about edges and their minimum radii http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok thanks!