Autocross comparison

[B Hise]

For teams who autocross their FSAE cars, how do you compare with the other classes?

We started autocrossing our 05 car at the beginning of the summer and have sped up quite a bit. After 4 autocrosses we have surpassed classes that we knew we should be faster than (SS, DM, etc.) and thats mostly driver improvement. We are catching up to the F125 Karts but still about 3 seconds off of their pace when theyre running low 52 sec laptimes. Some of the people were saying we should be running kart times, but I'm not sure if we can make that happen. We've had some really good autocrossers take fun runs in our car after the day is over and they still cant catch the Karts.

The courses we run on are not super fast, and tend to be very technical. The course we ran this weekend was akin to a giant slalom with various offsets and spacing.

How do you all compare?

Bryan
UMD

[Neil S]

We are usually pretty close to the raw FTD, generally AM is first and we are right behind them. Theres not too many F125s out at the STL autocrosses but they are generally slightly faster also, not unbeatable though depending on the course layout.

[Denny Trimble]

Have you heard of PAX?

http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2005.html

FSAE has a .948 index (paxed time = .948 * raw time). F125 has a .939 index, which means they don't need to go as fast as us to get the same indexed time.

We don't have many mod cars or karts come out, so when we autocross we should have FTD. You can PAX the results and see how you stack up. The best I've placed at an NT is in the top 25%.

But that was with FTD both days http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Neil S]

I don't know that the PAX for FSAE is really all that accurate for every team though, especially with FSAE being a new class. I don't know how they come up with the numbers, but I would assume it is some what based off of the fastest FSAE car/driver at Nationals or other major events; and as we all know there can be quite a variance in with our cars.

[Denny Trimble]

From what I've heard, the PAX numbers are based on Nationals and NT times. The 2004 Nationals saw Erick from UTA with 84.949 seconds for the two-day total, and the AM winner had a 79.395. If AM has a 1.0 index, then FSAE should have a .935 index.

FSAE Results:
http://ww2.scca.com/soloresults.php?ID=64

AM Results:
http://ww2.scca.com/soloresults.php?ID=81

Of course there will be variance between drivers, cars, and courses. But PAX is meant to allow you to compare your performance with the rest of the competitors at your local event. If you come out on top in PAX, you've done great. If you're near the bottom, you know you have a long ways to go to catch UTA http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you can keep up with Matt and Mike, you'll do fine.

[Neil S]

haha I wish I could keep up with them, unfortunately they haven't been here this summer for autocrosses to give me pointers. Plus I've only been to 4 or 5 autocrosses, hopefully by Nationals I can be getting near their times. I still have at least 3 years though, so I have time to improve.

I've measured my times off of how well i've improved percentage wise to our fastest drivers, and how my PAX has improved also.

Along with that if you use a data aq system with a track mapper you can calculate all your drivers' fastest sectors of the course and find out roughly how fast your car should be going (it can most likely go even faster than the number you would come up with, as it is calculated by the driver's best times not the car's capabuility).

[Mike Cook]

Denny, of course we have heard of the PAX, but I just feel like it isn't real spot on for FSAE cars. As you even said, based off of the 04 nationals UTA's top guy was like a .935 pax. But they also have wings which makes a huge difference. I think the non winged cars are at a disadvantage when it comes to real autocrossing.

[nick roberts]

On all but the slow, tight SCCA courses a nationally competetive FSAE car should be able to beat a competetive F125 by ~.5 seconds according to the PAX. I have found this to be closer to .1-.2 seconds from local events and past National results. If you look at the 2004 nationals results you can see that FSAE was only ahead of F125 by a small margin both days and ~.250 total time. Also, going back to the 2004 pax index versus the 2005 index; you can see that the FSAE cars have slowed down and the F125 have sped up slightly. This means that the two classes are more closely matched then the index initially stated. I predict this number will get closer for the 2006 pax.

Our 2005 car has been able to beat the local F125 group on several courses this summer. These have typically been the longer, more open courses. On the tighter courses, the karts are able to maintain their speed through the corners somewhat better then we are. Anyways, those are my observation on that topic.

-nick
University of Kansas

[mtg]

Originally posted by Denny Trimble:
Of course there will be variance between drivers, cars, and courses. But PAX is meant to allow you to compare your performance with the rest of the competitors at your local event. If you come out on top in PAX, you've done great. If you're near the bottom, you know you have a long ways to go to catch UTA http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you can keep up with Matt and Mike, you'll do fine.

Mike's working an internship at Ohlins, and I'm at OptimumG, so that definitely sucks for us (for driving anyway). If Mike would have had decent tires last year, he probably could have dethroned UTA. He ran on old, free, race take off R35's and got 4th.

Richard, Valarie, and Mike Schaefer aren't exactly slow either. Schaefer's been around forever and is more consistent than the sun rising, and Richard and Valarie get quicker all the time. Here's the first 3 autocrosses of the year:
Autocross 1 results (http://www.stlsolo.org/Default.aspx?tabid=287#FSAE)
Autocross 2 results (http://www.stlsolo.org/Default.aspx?tabid=302#FSAE)
Autocross 3 results (http://www.stlsolo.org/Default.aspx?tabid=312#FSAE)

For some reason, the St Louis SCCA likes to call Valarie by the name Vanessa.


Denny, are you driving this year at Nationals?

(Neil, fix your autosig, Missouri has two i's) http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Matt

[Denny Trimble]

I wish I was, but my between myself and the team's accounts, we're broke.

That's too bad about the R35's, I bet Mike would have done a lot better http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We see about 0.5 to 1.0 second lap time differences with them compared to R25's, on a 30 second course, so that's up to 3 seconds on the 90 second combined time at Nationals.

[Erich Ohlde]

Valarie was hella fast at the KCR Divisional in both the Rolla car and the KU car.

[mtg]

Originally posted by Denny Trimble:
I wish I was, but my between myself and the team's accounts, we're broke.

That's too bad about the R35's, I bet Mike would have done a lot better http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We see about 0.5 to 1.0 second lap time differences with them compared to R25's, on a 30 second course, so that's up to 3 seconds on the 90 second combined time at Nationals.

They weren't even new R35's, either.

Well, I guess people don't have to worry about getting beat at Nationals by a guy driving an FSAE car with a motocross helmet this year. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif