Rule B8.4.1 - Intake system roll over protection

[Briggs09hp]

Hello,

I am wondering if anyone has had any problems with rule B8.4.1 which states

"All parts of the engine air and fuel control systems (including the throttle or carburetor, and thecomplete air intake system, including the air cleaner and any air boxes) must lie within the surface defined by the top of the roll bar and the outside edge of the four tires. (See Figure 13)."

Our throttle body is horizontal with the ground and exits at the rear of the car over the differential. It is slightly outside (above) this surface. There must have been an issue with the CAD model of our car because everything looked fine on the CAD model. We had some parts built for us by a sponsor and I do not want to have them remake the part.

Has anyone had any issues with this rule at tech inspection? If they discover that our throttle body is slightly outside this surface, what will they make us do? I suppose we could make a mini roll hoop for the intake.

I have never been to a competition, so I don't know. I suppose the point of my question is, will they fail us and not let us drive, or will they fail us and make us build some structure to protect the intake system before we drive. Maybe someone has past experience with failing this rule?

Thanks,

Matt

[Briggs09hp]

Hello,

I am wondering if anyone has had any problems with rule B8.4.1 which states

"All parts of the engine air and fuel control systems (including the throttle or carburetor, and thecomplete air intake system, including the air cleaner and any air boxes) must lie within the surface defined by the top of the roll bar and the outside edge of the four tires. (See Figure 13)."

Our throttle body is horizontal with the ground and exits at the rear of the car over the differential. It is slightly outside (above) this surface. There must have been an issue with the CAD model of our car because everything looked fine on the CAD model. We had some parts built for us by a sponsor and I do not want to have them remake the part.

Has anyone had any issues with this rule at tech inspection? If they discover that our throttle body is slightly outside this surface, what will they make us do? I suppose we could make a mini roll hoop for the intake.

I have never been to a competition, so I don't know. I suppose the point of my question is, will they fail us and not let us drive, or will they fail us and make us build some structure to protect the intake system before we drive. Maybe someone has past experience with failing this rule?

Thanks,

Matt

[jsmooz]

Matt - They will catch that one in tech. That rule is there to make sure your car won't got to WOT in a roll over. I would propose a solid fix, with pictures, and send it to the rules committee if you can't redesign into the rule requirements.

[TorqueWrench]

We had a very similar issue on our current car. The intake manifold fit perfectly in CAD with some room to spare, but real life and CAD never agree. We ended up last minute rotating our manifold to make sure it fit. This is one of the rules they will definitely catch you on at tech as it is a major safety concern.

I have seen teams weld an additional frame over the intake at competition to make it pass tech. If you fail tech the first time, you are free to go, fix whatever is wrong and re-tech. They will make you fix it before you are allowed to run. An engine going runaway in an already bad situation is not something to be taken lightly.

[moose]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TorqueWrench:
This is one of the rules they will definitely catch you on at tech as it is a major safety concern.

I have seen teams weld an additional frame over the intake at competition to make it pass tech. If you fail tech the first time, you are free to go, fix whatever is wrong and re-tech. They will make you fix it before you are allowed to run. An engine going runaway in an already bad situation is not something to be taken lightly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just be careful.. even if for some reason it goes uncaught in tech (unlikely), something that is so obvious will probably be caught on the track, and you'll probably have to re-tech but with a much greater chance of causing you to miss an event.

[BuckeyeEngines]

Our intake has done the same thing before, I beleive that there is error in the engine model that we had made/ the intake is alot of carbon peices that are glued together and not fully jigged. Knowing this I designed the diffuser to be two peices to that then we put it on the car we can choose to rotate it down if need be before gluing it. Not that it helps you now but something to keep in mind for future. I would like to argue with them about this rule but it would just piss them off. Have you ever tried to run an engine with out a TPS signal. Doesn't work. Therefore if your intake is taking in alot of unmetered air because it was severed in a roll over it will simply stall. They have that whole spirit of the rules, rule so you best just comply to their false safety concerns. Not that its the same but sort of is, no refueling in F1 this year, because its too dangerouse. OH NO your telling me racing is dangerouse who would have thought.

Just had an idea, can you make a structural "protector" peice that is welded to the frame? I bring this up because I dont see it being feasible to change intake design at this point and have to go back to dyno tuning.

[benny41]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BuckeyeEngines:
I would like to argue with them about this rule but it would just piss them off. Have you ever tried to run an engine with out a TPS signal. Doesn't work. Therefore if your intake is taking in alot of unmetered air because it was severed in a roll over it will simply stall. They have that whole spirit of the rules, rule so you best just comply to their false safety concerns. Not that its the same but sort of is, no refueling in F1 this year, because its too dangerouse. OH NO your telling me racing is dangerouse who would have thought.

/QUOTE]

Maybee its a rule that is designed to make us think about sensible enginering practices.
l know racing is dangerous but surely we try to minimise any possible risks.

[Jon @ Electromotive, Inc.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would like to argue with them about this rule but it would just piss them off. Have you ever tried to run an engine with out a TPS signal. Doesn't work. Therefore if your intake is taking in alot of unmetered air because it was severed in a roll over it will simply stall. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's true, if you're use TPS for your load sensor. If you're using manifold pressure for engine load (and there are teams that do) you'll have a runaway as soon as the throttle breaks off.

[ESaenz]

Actually our 2005 team had that same exact problem and didn't realize it until tech saw it at the race! They made them mig weld a sub hoop onto the main hoop (looked so silly but it increased the envelope)! But again this was in 2005 and i don't know if the same would be allowed for this years event.