Formula student 2007 - Cheating or just being smart???

[James Morris]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6560302300393...ype=search&plindex=0 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6560302300393512184&q=formula+student&total=525&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

[James Morris]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6560302300393...ype=search&plindex=0 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6560302300393512184&q=formula+student&total=525&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)

[Mike Sadie]

Wow. I would say, cheating and/or oblivious to track layout. I feel bad for all of the people who invested time in that car, only to have a driver perform like that.

[John Grego]

It looks like the driver had no idea what was going on. It doesn't appear to be cheating and it's definately not smart. It's the martials fault for not pulling him off the track immediately. That was dangerous.

[Ben C-M]

I think it's pretty poor taste to accuse Oxford Brookes of cheating when it seems fairly obvious that the driver didn't realize there was a slalom there. As soon as he realized there was one (the lap that he nearly collided with the other car), he started taking the slalom.

The video fails to mention that after the collision, the martials did start watching that area, and I'm pretty sure they pulled in at least one driver for skipping those cones.

[flavorPacket]

He didn't 'miss' the slalom. He was pissed that the marshals let Stuttgart by earlier. One of their drivers flipped off the marshals in the car. Many others who were there can confirm this.

[vreihen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben C-M:
I think it's pretty poor taste to accuse Oxford Brookes of cheating when it seems fairly obvious that the driver didn't realize there was a slalom there. As soon as he realized there was one (the lap that he nearly collided with the other car), he started taking the slalom. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and suggest that you look at the seconds leading up to time index 1:13 before making any conclusions. The white car was stopped in the middle of the driving line. At 1:15, the blue(?)/white car that had to stop to avoid a collision appears to have intentionally punted a yellow cone rather than drive through the prescribed chicane, even though he had already braked and was well under control. From my armchair across the pond, it certainly looks like the driver of the blue/white car lost his cool at 1:13, and intentionally straight-lined the slalom a few seconds later trying to make an illegal pass before the white car made him have to brake (for a mechanical problem?) again.

It's interesting to note that at shortly after time index 1:57, the blue/white car somehow completed the pass off-camera, and opened up a lead in just a few seconds. We can't see what happened there, but I hope that the white car yielded and it wasn't another intentional course deviation to complete the pass.

I don't know if it should be considered cheating, but it certainly wasn't smart IMO.....

[Ianb]

Well the Oxford Brookes team got 6 off courses for this, so it wasnt being smart.

[Brett Neale]

That's a disgrace. Not only is it blatantly arrogant, but also downright dangerous.

[ad]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brett Neale:
That's a disgrace. Not only is it blatantly arrogant, but also downright dangerous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. Regardless of intent or not, its still cheating, not even considering the added danger competitors and spectators are place under.

I'd like to hear comments from the Oxford team regarding this.

Im glad the Aus event is set on a track where such actions are mostly impossible, which makes the even fair for all competitors.

[Matt N]

I think everybody should have their teams drivers watch this and have a little discussion about risk to reward ratio. Maybe sportsmanship too.

I know many members here scoff at site insurance/event cost/safety rules and interpretations/tech enforcement/fill in the blanks but many of us are still young enough to think we are invincible. One major car on car crash in endurance will change this series (kill it?).

I would guess as well that if the struck car was a regulation steel tube frame car and was hit in the side cockpit with any great speed differential, the driver would sustain fairly major injuries and would have to be cut out of the car.

Matt

[J. Vinella]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ianb:
Well the Oxford Brookes team got 6 off courses for this, so it wasnt being smart. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If Ian is right then I don't see how this is cheating if they got penalized for it. That is what these time penalties are for. +10 seconds is not worth -2 seconds for cutting the slalom.

It was dangerous what happened but if the driver unknowing blew right through the slalom and then corrected this on the next lap then I will give him/her the benefit of the doubt and say it was a mistake.

Hmm, but maybe they were doing it for fuel economy reasons. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[HenningO]

I was in standing in the drivers change area next to the guys from Oxford, let's just say they weren't very pleased with the way their first driver handled the slalom. It is obvious he didn't realize the slalom until he was driving behind the Stuttgart car. As Ian said, they got punished for it, so I don't see what the big fuzz is about. Only thing we should discuss is why the track marshals didn't black flag him, and told him what he did wrong.

[screwdriver]

Agreed. He should have been pulled in after doing it wrong for two times in a row.

[Biggy72]

Were not very pleased? By that do you mean they yanked him out of the car and beat him to a bloody pulp? That's a year's worth of hard work from several people he's screwing up.

[Mikko Ahola]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by screwdriver:
Agreed. He should have been pulled in after doing it wrong for two times in a row. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that everyone who was at the comp and watched the endurance event can agree that the marshals at the track had also few other mistakes made... Me and our other driver drove most of our laps behind a slower car. I think the longest was 3 laps a row as the flag marshals were nowhere to be seen...

[MH]

The answer: definitely NO on both. We talked to the guys from Brookes, they were absolutely furious with the driver. It was a mistake that cost them 2 minutes penalty. No way they gained that much.

The thing that worries me most: obviously there was a marshal watching it and adding the penalty. But how come nobody black-flagged the car after say 2 times missing the slalom???

Mikko's right. A lot should improve regarding communication/organization during FSUK. I know they're all volunteers, but just take a look at FSG. Enough said.

Cheers,
Miki Hegedus
Delft University of Technology

[HenningO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I know they're all volunteers, but just take a look at FSG. Enough said. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen to that. But then again they're germans http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif