Honda 250CC 4 cylinder

[SeanM]

I'm just wondering if anyone on these forums has any information on the Japan only 250cc 4 cylinder motor, it's suppose to be quite something but i haven't found much info on it, so if anyone knows anything about it, it would be great to hear from you

[SeanM]

I'm just wondering if anyone on these forums has any information on the Japan only 250cc 4 cylinder motor, it's suppose to be quite something but i haven't found much info on it, so if anyone knows anything about it, it would be great to hear from you

[Denny Trimble]

UTA built a car around it in '99. Everybody was jealous. It seemed (to an outside observer) slow off the line, but fast everywhere else. It was running fast (Kenny behind the wheel didn't hurt) but had an oil fire take it out of endurance, I think.

Car Specs (http://maepro.uta.edu/fsae/99car-team.html)

In-Car Video (http://maepro.uta.edu/fsae/trackpages/incar27may01-woods.html)

[Dave M]

correct me if im wrong but didnt western washington base their v8 off of those heads?

[Marshall Grice]

speaking of videos. this is so not fair (http://maepro.uta.edu/fsae/vidoes/EK20Jun04SCCA3.mpg).

i'm going to go sit and pout for a while.

[kwancho]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marshall Grice:
speaking of videos. this is so not fair (http://maepro.uta.edu/fsae/vidoes/EK20Jun04SCCA3.mpg).

i'm going to go sit and pout for a while. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Word. Sublimely handling car along with a driver with very smooth and precise steering inputs. Glorious.

[Storbeck]

I believe the wwu v8 was based on a kawasaki 250 inline four.

I'm sure one of thier members can clarify. We had a head and a few other parts for the kawi sitting around for a while.

Andy

[Foote]

The Western V8 was indeed made from two kawasaki heads. I don't remember the model of bike, but it was only sold in australia and japan. It made peak power at 19,500 rpm.

[James Waltman]

Kawasaki ZX250R if my memory serves me. It is starting to fade in my old age. All of the parts were sourced from Down Under. Last time I checked (late September 2002) we could buy a complete ZX250R engine from Australia for $850US + ~$400 shipping.

[Denny Trimble]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marshall Grice:
speaking of videos. this is so not fair (http://maepro.uta.edu/fsae/vidoes/EK20Jun04SCCA3.mpg).

i'm going to go sit and pout for a while. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You won't be alone, Erick took top time of the day that day, plus top indexed (PAX) time, which NEVER happens in an FSAE car.

[markocosic]

What are the approximate specs on that 250cc Honda 4-pot? Factory output, factory wet weight etc?

[Dr. Bob Woods]

The video that Marshall Grice posted was the UTA F04 car at Texas Motor Speedway, a 600 cc normally aspirated gasoline car. UTA built turbo 250's in 98 and 99.

You can see in-car videos of F98 and F99 at http://fsae.uta.edu/. The last three videos listed under "videos" are 250's. In the last two, Kenny is driving.

The normally aspirated engine makes just over 40 HP. When you turbocharge it, you can get between 70 and 80 HP. We used Honda engines.

-Dr. Bob Woods
Faculty Advisor, UTA

[JamesWolak]

So has anyone tried buying/using one of these lately? If so do you mind sharing you contact info and words of advice.

I haven't searched around for two long but it looks like the last time this was ran was UTA in 06.

I am also scared that getting things like head gaskets, clutches, pistons, etc are going to be hard. It won't be like the F4i and i can call someone and get a motor in 3 hours.

[Yellow Ranger]

haha, even in 06, Woods had to go to japan to pick up these motors, then bring them back disassembled in luggage.

[JamesWolak]

No way! I found acouple on ebay Australia. Doesn't do me any good.

[Mike Cook]

Erick drove the uta 06 car at nationals this year and damn if that thing isn't quick. Even off the line I feel like he was faster than us. I'm surprised the gear box hold up.

Mike

[mech5107]

I don't think that those super reving 250cc engines were only for Japan.

We, here in Greece have CBRs, ZXR, GSX-r and Yamaha with those devil engines.

I have found an abandoned Kawasaki 250cc bike, the engine of which i plan to use on a spare chassis from 2007 season, using the stock carbs and ignition.

These engines are so amazing, the internals are designed to a very high level, they are tiny but capable for 18+K rpms.

[Homemade WRX]

We purchased 3 complete motors (MC22 engines from the CBR250RR) with wiring harnesses and all in the fall of 06. I was part of the motors development (senior project) for using it in 08. I'm not sure what became of them as I graduated in 07.

You can find them at scrapyard in Australia and Ireland rather easily. The problem will come with finding a yard willing to freight them.

Clutch springs from a 600 will help with the clutch slip issue you'll find http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki all had 250cc motors too. The Honda MC19/22 (differences mainly in cam profile) engines are supposedly the most stout of the four.

[JamesWolak]

Homemade WRX i sent you a PM.

Using these motors sounds way too cool. 70HP, a driver friendly power band, 30 pounds lighter, easier to package, and i am going to guess a slightly lower CoG.

I was looking through the results for 2006 and it looks like UTA didn't compete was this because of engine issues?

Also the dyno chart (UTA 06 Dyno graph (http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y34/homerdoh56/F06/?action=view&current=dynoplotf06.jpg)) that i saw from their car in 06 also had some nasty dips in it. I am guessing it was from a early calibration? And it looks like there x-axis is in mph. At what point did you see HP above 50ish?

I am sure it’s a pain in the ass to calibrate with such a huge RPM and map span. But I guess that’s the fun of it.

Mike, did they have TC or anything of that sort when you driver was in it? It seems like a powerband like that would be much easier for a driver to manage.

I am going to guess that BSFC and fuel economy is slightly better than a 600 setup also?

[Mikey Antonakakis]

I want one (or three) so bad... only for the sound. If the judges ask why we're running it I'm going to say "do you have ears?!"

[Chapo]

Ahh the things that us Aussies take for granted http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
My mate has one of the CBR250RR and it does make a fantastic noise, especially when he lets me ride it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I think the justification of "do you have ears" is something that isnt heard enough.
This project is about developing a product for a specific market, asthetices and "w*nk" Factor have to come into it at some point.
We are selling to the weekend autocrosser at a fairly basic / entry level, you wont get outright wins in these cars (hell shifter karts will give you a run for your money and win most of the time), so having component x to brag about is a good enough reason in my books.
If you have two cars that are near on the same but have component x different, and the judge askes why you chose to make yours work that way, responding "because I think its awesome, other people think its awesome and therefore its more likely to sell" should be a good enough justification http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Remember, its not how good it is its how well you can market it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

N.B. Im not for a moment suggesting that you design an entire car on this principle, but it should be acceptable occasionally for little things.

[JamesWolak]

I love how it takes 3 days for my post to show up

[Kirby]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JamesWolak:
I love how it takes 3 days for my post to show up </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

any post that contains a link to an external websites gets moderated by the admins due to spam issues.