Gorilla Axles

[AndrewUofL]

We have had lots of trouble with breaking axles over the past year. We have found a custom axle place in Louisiana called Gorilla Axle (gorilla-axle.com). I have not heard of the company but they look legitimate and they have very nice prices. Has anybody heard of this company or has anybody used them before?

[John Grego]

I haven't heard of them, but I would like to ask if you have found the source of the problem? You don't want to waste time and money on new axles and run into the same problem.

[AndrewUofL]

Our problem is the fact that we use 4-wheeler axles and we cut and weld an extension on them. The heat effected zone is where they keep breaking. We were breaking the tube but we went to a larger tube and then the solid shaft broke. The outboard CV cannot be disassembled so we cannot heat treat to normalize the welded area.

[MalcolmG]

Originally posted by AndrewUofL:
....The outboard CV cannot be disassembled...

Now that sounds like a challenge. While I definitely think you're much better off making one-piece driveshafts (we had huge problems with welded driveline components in 2006), are you really sure the outer CVs can't be disassembled? I know that some car manufacturers (ie Toyota) list their outboard CVs as non servicable and claim you have to replace the whole shaft, but they can actually be removed.

I hope I'm not asking a stupid question or telling you things you already know, but have you tried removing it? Usually (in my experience) outboard cvs are just held on by a spring/C clip that just requires a reasonable amount of force to remove. If you try putting the shaft in a vice, getting somebody to pull on the outer housing, and trying to knock the inner race off with a large pin-punch, you may find they do in fact come off.

[AndrewUofL]

Honda tells us that the CV's cannot be disassembled. I asked the rep from gorilla axle about it and he said the it is designed to come appart but they don't. The problem is that you put the cage and inner race in at about a 90 degree angle and then put the bearings in and rotate it to put the axle in. The problem then is that with the axle in, you cannot rotate the bearing far enough to remove the balls and you cannot remove the axle from the inner race. I was able to disassemble it by cutting the axle just above the inner race of one that we we could not use anymore and then rotating the bearing assembly.
There was a piece of the axle still in the inner race that I have tried to remove. I have taken a sledge hammer and put it in a hydraulic press and applied 5 tons of of force on it and it didnt budge. We are running the front axles out of a 2003 Honda TRX350 ES Rancher so if anybody knows any tricks....

[js10coastr]

Our baja team had a bitch of a time dealing with them... took forever and a day to get the axles back.

[Mike Cook]

I don't know if it would fit your application, but taylor's axles are pretty nice parts and I have yet to come close to breaking anything from the taylor-race drivetrain.

Mike

[AndrewUofL]

They will fit our application and the big reason that we are looking at this company is that they are about half the price of the taylor race components and they are going on our 08 car. We have some new ideas about the 09 car that we are still looking in to.

[Go Hawks]

Ya, i have to back up js10, our baja team had a horrific time with these guys. Turnaround time was supposed to be a few days and it turned into almost 6 months. They ended up getting them the day before they left for comp. When they did get them they didn't fit (don't know if our guys are to blame for that or Gorilla is). They then broke at competition.

[Conor]

Andrew,

I do not understand why you're having a problem. We use Honda ATV drivetrain components and have great success with them. Do not listen to Honda or Gorilla. The CV can be very easily dis-assembled with the use of a slide hammer. The outboard CV is most likely held in place with a circlip. What you need to do is obtain a slide hammer or axle pulling kit - these can easily be rented from Auto Zone (or a similiar store) for free. Clamp the axle in a vice (you may want to sandwich it between pieces of wood to prevent damage) and bolt the slide hammer to the CV where the castle nut goes. Give the slide hammer a couple very hard pulls and it should pop right off. To re-assemble, simply order a new circlip and pound the axle back in. It's extremely easy.

[AndrewUofL]

What type of ATV do you get your axles off of? We were told by the local Honda shop that they do not make any ATV axles that the outboard CV can come apart. I have disassembled CV's in the manner that you specified but I had no luck with this one. I had to cut it apart with a die grinder to disassemble it and still cannot get the remaining part of the shaft out of the inner race.

[Conor]

Andrew,

We used the axle/CV assembly from a 2007 Honda TRX650FA which is a Rubricon model I believe. Out of curiosity, I looked up the model you ordered your assembly from on servicehonda.com and the assembly appeared to be extremely similiar to what we use. When we pulled ours apart, the first axle popped out extremely easy, however, I do remeber struggling with the second for quite awhile before we finally were able to get it to release with the slide hammer. Can you post some photos of the assembly?

[AndrewUofL]

I disassembled the CV by cutting the axle shaft and rotating the bearing in the CV housing and removing the cage and inner race. The bearing cannot be rotated enough to remove the bearings. I cannot get the axle shaft out of the inner race.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk9/UofLFSAE/Shop%20Pics/06-23-08_1113.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk9/UofLFSAE/Shop%20Pics/06-23-08_1107.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk9/UofLFSAE/Shop%20Pics/06-23-08_1110.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk9/UofLFSAE/Shop%20Pics/06-23-08_1114.jpg

[Rex]

I second Conor's comments - I've disassembled many Honda ATV CV's with minimal problems. A slide hammer would be ideal, but usually it was a vise, wood block, and large mallet or sledge of some sort when I did it. It usually breaks/bends the circlip, but the surrounding parts are sufficiently hardened to prevent damage to them. The few times we were unsuccessful it was apparently due to multiple half-hearted attempts rather than a single full-on hit. I've actually seen a couple of one-shots if you go all out on the first try.

As for what you've done now per your pics, maybe the circlip got pulled into the splines when you put the thing on the hydraulic press? Hard to tell from the pics...

Interesting side note I recently had one of the stock Honda ATV stainless steel hubs shear right at the back of the hub face. I believe mine were off the 450ES. Not sure if you're also planning to run the matching hubs to your Honda ATV CVs, and I don't know how those hubs would compare to mine size-wise, but just something to think about...although my failure was after 100+ hours drive time on the parts.

[AndrewUofL]

I am not sure why our CV will not come apart. This is not the first time we have tried to disassemble them but it is the first time that we have been successful. What kind of Honda ATV's have you removed the CV on. I doubt that they changed much between models but it is possible that ours cannot be disassembled. Where was the clip located on the shaft. Was it IN the inner race or on the other side of the race like on the inboard CV?

[Conor]

Andrew,

That CV looks exactly like ours, right down to the green paint. I was not aware that you could remove the balls and cage (although we never really needed to). If you already tried pushing the axle out with a press, I'm extremely surprised it didn't come out, that just seems crazy to me. I guess if you keep trying and you don't have any success, you could order a new CV and cut the old one apart to see if there's a circlip in there. If there is, then you'll atleast know that you should be able to take it apart. And to second Rex's comment, it takes one hell of a pull on a slide hammer to get those little suckers to pop. Don't be affraid of hurting it - the damn thing is tough as hell.

[AndrewUofL]

OK. Thanks for all the comments they have been a huge help. I will probably be talking to Honda tomorrow about these CV's. Maybe a newer model CV's come apart. Thanks again.

[AndrewUofL]

One last question. I have found that the CV's on the Honda TRX500 Rubicon from 01 to 04 and the TRX650 from 03 to 04 come apart. Does anybody know if the spline on those axles match the spline on a TRX350 Rancher (03). Gorilla Axle said that they do but id like a second opinion. We have the diff out of that 4x4 and our spindles are already splined for that axle as well.

[Conor]

Personally, I would assume so, but you can always order the part and see for yourself. I don't know why they would be varying the spline pattern between models, especially if they have a very similiar application...

[AndrewUofL]

Ok. That was my assumption too. Thanks

[AndrewUofL]

Conor,
You say that you use axles out of a 2007 TRX650 Rubicon. I am intrested in knowing if they are OEM or aftermarket axles? Also, could you post some pics of your axles being disassembled if you have them? We are stil being told that OEM CV'a do not come apart.

[Rex]

Andrew,
Honda will definitely say that their outboard ATV CVs don't come apart - I've heard that before. But what they actually mean is that they're not designed to be disassembled under normal ATV maintenance situations. There's a difference there, so be sure you don't confuse the two. I know I don't have any pics of mine disassembled, but I assure you they came apart plenty of times, and they were OEM painted green looked exactly like yours. I guess I could post a pic of mine with a new custom driveshaft on it, but that's not really helpful. Why not put your cut apart cage w/ driveshaft stuck in it back on the hydraulic press and press out the driveshaft (out the back side) to see how the circlip is set up? Then you can get an idea of what you're up against firsthand.

As a last resort, you could always take them to a local CV shop. Not a fancy CV shop, but like the shacks that have "CV Shop" painted on the side. In my experience those guys are pros with the hammer disassembly method both Connor and I have described.

I'll again mention that if you're using the OEM stainless hubs that match those CVs then you may want to run careful analysis to ensure they are strong enough on your car. I know it seems like they would be fine if they can stand up to ATV loads, but I just broke one pretty spectacularly on my FSAE car 2 months ago, and it not only destroys the $30 hub but also destroys the $300 CV. Not fun.

[AndrewUofL]

Thanks guys. I got them apart just like you all said. Simple use of a slide hammer.

[AndrewUofL]

Does anybody know what the stock Honda ATV axle shafts are made of? We are going to heat treat but we need to know what kind of material.

[Rex]

No idea what the stock ones are made of - we used custom 1-piece machined and heat treated replacement shafts. And even then, we've broken a few of the custom ones on some cars after many hours of driving time. The spline diameter of those Honda CV's seems to be barely sufficient for a FSAE car, and may break given enough drive time on the car. That's why I've finally given up on the Honda ATV setup and switched to Taylor stuff.

[AndrewUofL]

Ok. We are going to try normalizing the shafts after welding on them and see how that works out. We are going to see how that works out before we make our decision on the 2009 car. Thanks again.