Using Autodesk products for design

[MThomas_SAE]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifHi all,

I thought that I would try to help those who are using Autodesk products for design. You may have seen me walking around at the events. I may have even talked to your teams during the competition.

I have done some searching on this site, and realize that there is serious need of information on Autodesk software. There are many misconceptions and I hope that I can be a resource for you.

I won't try to act impartial and I am not here to change your team from the software that you are using. I do want to be a resource for your team if you choose to use one of our softwares. Here is some background on me.. I worked as an application engineer, senior engineer, and R&D engineer using Pro/Engineer v16 to 2001 in industry. I then was given a 30 day trial of Inventor and never looked back. Amazing to me when I got a call from an engineer at Autodesk and I was asked to apply. I love working in the software industry as I recognize the key role that good design plays in the market.

Now I would like to describe the software that we offer for mechanical based design....

AutoCAD - Yes, now you know who we are. AutoCAD has been around since the 80s. It is a very powerful 2D design program, but is not designed for 3D. The first parametric program based off of this platform was MDT (Mechanical Desktop) with the first feature tree. This program, although easy for AutoCAD users, was limited but is still used in industry.

Cost: Free.. Go to Free Software (students.autodesk.com ) and download and install the Inventor Professional. There is an option for AutoCAD Mechanical. This is still AutoCAD but has tools built in for Mechanical Design ACM (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=4253185).

Autodesk Inventor - This is our 3D program that is an incredible product. It is not based on AutoCAD code, but is based on ACIS kernel that DDS (yes, parent copy of CATIA and SolidWorks)bought. We had a clause and purchased it and developed the code further and now refer to it as Shape Manager. This program has many functions that can help you design your Formula car including...

1. Design Accelerators: This panel has the engineer's handbook built into it as well as thousands of parts to choose from using engineering requirements. It will create 3D belt drives, gear sets, bolted connections... etc.
2. Frame Generator: This application builds the frame from a wireframe or solid. You can choose standard steel shapes or create you own custom shape.
3. Wire Harness: Why figure length and paths out after you build your car? You can use the wire harness function to quickly route wires from one component to the other. It also can send/receive a report from an AutoCAD Electrical schematic file.
4. Piping and Tubing: Like the wire harness feature, it helps route piping around parts while maintaining piping rules (max bend diameter, min. tube length, welded pipe, or elbows at corners..etc).
5. Plassotech: This is the FEA program that works with native Inventor files. http://www.plassotech.com/Products.html If you want some copies... just email me a note at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.
6. Dynamic Simulation: This application will help you gather the forces that your assembly goes thru before you find out the hard way. There is a tutorial under Help-Learning Tools to help you get aquainted.
7. Surfacing: The power to start with a solid, delete a face (turns model to all surfaces), build a new surface, stitch and go back to solid is a very powerful tool. Add to that the ability to read in wire files directly from AliasStudio, and you have everything you could need for the body design.
8. Drawing/Details: You can create very compelling details by using these panels. There is one panel on views to add and another for all of the details.
For more information see Drawing video (http://download.autodesk.com/us/interactiveoverviews/inventor/main.html)
9. Inventor Studio: This application can use constraints to quickly create an animation of your assembly. For example, check out this You Tube video... CAD WARS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYT52kc9HC8).
10. Adaptivity: One of the first creative add ins but hardly talked about is the ability to tell Inventor that a part needs to fit between two objects and allow the part to change shape based on how the other objects move (think spring, rubber band, or use to create a needed part that you don't know required size).
11. Vault: This is a simple check in/out control system. It allows your team to work on different parts of the assembly without interferring with each other's work.
12. Reading other CAD files: Inventor 2009 can read directly AutoCAD, AliasStudio, SolidWorks, Pro/Engineer, and NX files so that you don't have to recreate the files. Of course, it also reads .stp, .iges and outputs the same as well as .stl.
For video examples of these concepts see
Autodesk Inventor Videos (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=6871131&siteID=123112) http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Cost: You can get a free student edition at URL=students.autodesk.com ]Free Software[/URL] or apply for team sponsorship by emailing me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

AliasStudio: This is a surfacing and render package for the creative process. From 2D painting to A line surfacing, this product is the favorite of industrial designers around the world. As mentioned above, it is works with Inventor to create a complete product. This product has been used in the automotive market for years, and is offered to PACE schools along with NX www.PACEpartners.org (http://www.PACEpartners.org).
Cost: You can get a free student edition at URL=students.autodesk.com ]Free Software[/URL] or apply for team sponsorship by emailing me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

AutoCAD Electrical: This is our schematic package. Keep in mind that this is not for creating circuit boards! This package is AutoCAD based, but is automated for ladder logic, or point to point wiring systems. It also does a great job with pneumatic and hydraulic layouts. For more information see... ACE (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=4255921).

Cost: You can get a free student edition at URL=students.autodesk.com ]Free Software[/URL] or apply for team sponsorship by emailing me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

Autodesk Freewheel: This is a webhosted viewer where your team can all get a view of a design at the same time. It works like net meeting but is a live viewing of your model. There is an install similar to installing a printer to the menu system. It creates a lightweight .dwf file for viewing. If you haven't heard of .dwf, I describe it as a 3D .pdf but smaller file size. Freewheel (http://freewheel.autodesk.com/)

Cost: This is a free software as is the dwf writer that can be used with almost any CAD program DWF Writer (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=10798343&siteID=123112).

Autodesk Streamline: This is a webhosted storage site. If your team is not in a central location, this is a great way to share the information. You can limit visibility to your online folders, view files online, and view who has been logged in and checked out what file. This is a great way to manage teams that collaborate from different colleges and universities. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=8386431

Cost: This is not currently available for universities, but to apply for team sponsorship, email me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

Last is a trial software site that you can get great additions to existing software or try new software before it is released. This is our company's way of seeing what interests the market before we turn it into a product. Autodesk Labs (http://labs.autodesk.com/)

The last thing for my post is stating the legal statement: That the views and information in this post is my own and does not necessarily represent Autodesk's viewpoint. Yada, Yada...

So I hope that this has helped you understand Autodesk better and I hope that I can help you with questions... Just ask.

Thank you!

-Mel

[MThomas_SAE]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifHi all,

I thought that I would try to help those who are using Autodesk products for design. You may have seen me walking around at the events. I may have even talked to your teams during the competition.

I have done some searching on this site, and realize that there is serious need of information on Autodesk software. There are many misconceptions and I hope that I can be a resource for you.

I won't try to act impartial and I am not here to change your team from the software that you are using. I do want to be a resource for your team if you choose to use one of our softwares. Here is some background on me.. I worked as an application engineer, senior engineer, and R&D engineer using Pro/Engineer v16 to 2001 in industry. I then was given a 30 day trial of Inventor and never looked back. Amazing to me when I got a call from an engineer at Autodesk and I was asked to apply. I love working in the software industry as I recognize the key role that good design plays in the market.

Now I would like to describe the software that we offer for mechanical based design....

AutoCAD - Yes, now you know who we are. AutoCAD has been around since the 80s. It is a very powerful 2D design program, but is not designed for 3D. The first parametric program based off of this platform was MDT (Mechanical Desktop) with the first feature tree. This program, although easy for AutoCAD users, was limited but is still used in industry.

Cost: Free.. Go to Free Software (students.autodesk.com ) and download and install the Inventor Professional. There is an option for AutoCAD Mechanical. This is still AutoCAD but has tools built in for Mechanical Design ACM (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=4253185).

Autodesk Inventor - This is our 3D program that is an incredible product. It is not based on AutoCAD code, but is based on ACIS kernel that DDS (yes, parent copy of CATIA and SolidWorks)bought. We had a clause and purchased it and developed the code further and now refer to it as Shape Manager. This program has many functions that can help you design your Formula car including...

1. Design Accelerators: This panel has the engineer's handbook built into it as well as thousands of parts to choose from using engineering requirements. It will create 3D belt drives, gear sets, bolted connections... etc.
2. Frame Generator: This application builds the frame from a wireframe or solid. You can choose standard steel shapes or create you own custom shape.
3. Wire Harness: Why figure length and paths out after you build your car? You can use the wire harness function to quickly route wires from one component to the other. It also can send/receive a report from an AutoCAD Electrical schematic file.
4. Piping and Tubing: Like the wire harness feature, it helps route piping around parts while maintaining piping rules (max bend diameter, min. tube length, welded pipe, or elbows at corners..etc).
5. Plassotech: This is the FEA program that works with native Inventor files. http://www.plassotech.com/Products.html If you want some copies... just email me a note at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.
6. Dynamic Simulation: This application will help you gather the forces that your assembly goes thru before you find out the hard way. There is a tutorial under Help-Learning Tools to help you get aquainted.
7. Surfacing: The power to start with a solid, delete a face (turns model to all surfaces), build a new surface, stitch and go back to solid is a very powerful tool. Add to that the ability to read in wire files directly from AliasStudio, and you have everything you could need for the body design.
8. Drawing/Details: You can create very compelling details by using these panels. There is one panel on views to add and another for all of the details.
For more information see Drawing video (http://download.autodesk.com/us/interactiveoverviews/inventor/main.html)
9. Inventor Studio: This application can use constraints to quickly create an animation of your assembly. For example, check out this You Tube video... CAD WARS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYT52kc9HC8).
10. Adaptivity: One of the first creative add ins but hardly talked about is the ability to tell Inventor that a part needs to fit between two objects and allow the part to change shape based on how the other objects move (think spring, rubber band, or use to create a needed part that you don't know required size).
11. Vault: This is a simple check in/out control system. It allows your team to work on different parts of the assembly without interferring with each other's work.
12. Reading other CAD files: Inventor 2009 can read directly AutoCAD, AliasStudio, SolidWorks, Pro/Engineer, and NX files so that you don't have to recreate the files. Of course, it also reads .stp, .iges and outputs the same as well as .stl.
For video examples of these concepts see
Autodesk Inventor Videos (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=6871131&siteID=123112) http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Cost: You can get a free student edition at URL=students.autodesk.com ]Free Software[/URL] or apply for team sponsorship by emailing me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

AliasStudio: This is a surfacing and render package for the creative process. From 2D painting to A line surfacing, this product is the favorite of industrial designers around the world. As mentioned above, it is works with Inventor to create a complete product. This product has been used in the automotive market for years, and is offered to PACE schools along with NX www.PACEpartners.org (http://www.PACEpartners.org).
Cost: You can get a free student edition at URL=students.autodesk.com ]Free Software[/URL] or apply for team sponsorship by emailing me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

AutoCAD Electrical: This is our schematic package. Keep in mind that this is not for creating circuit boards! This package is AutoCAD based, but is automated for ladder logic, or point to point wiring systems. It also does a great job with pneumatic and hydraulic layouts. For more information see... ACE (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=4255921).

Cost: You can get a free student edition at URL=students.autodesk.com ]Free Software[/URL] or apply for team sponsorship by emailing me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

Autodesk Freewheel: This is a webhosted viewer where your team can all get a view of a design at the same time. It works like net meeting but is a live viewing of your model. There is an install similar to installing a printer to the menu system. It creates a lightweight .dwf file for viewing. If you haven't heard of .dwf, I describe it as a 3D .pdf but smaller file size. Freewheel (http://freewheel.autodesk.com/)

Cost: This is a free software as is the dwf writer that can be used with almost any CAD program DWF Writer (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=10798343&siteID=123112).

Autodesk Streamline: This is a webhosted storage site. If your team is not in a central location, this is a great way to share the information. You can limit visibility to your online folders, view files online, and view who has been logged in and checked out what file. This is a great way to manage teams that collaborate from different colleges and universities. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=8386431

Cost: This is not currently available for universities, but to apply for team sponsorship, email me at melissa.thomas@autodesk.com.

Last is a trial software site that you can get great additions to existing software or try new software before it is released. This is our company's way of seeing what interests the market before we turn it into a product. Autodesk Labs (http://labs.autodesk.com/)

The last thing for my post is stating the legal statement: That the views and information in this post is my own and does not necessarily represent Autodesk's viewpoint. Yada, Yada...

So I hope that this has helped you understand Autodesk better and I hope that I can help you with questions... Just ask.

Thank you!

-Mel

[jm1495]

My expierence with Autodesk is that it is a good entry level software package for designing and creating parts. Some of the functionality that is listed above such as the wire harness, and tubing features are only avalible with the Pro version of Inventor. If that's what's being offered free then that would be great. I've been using the basic version for over a year now and it does have it's limitation such as surface modeling. It is much more user friendly, and will let you get away with more is the terms of constraints than a ProE would. I used ProE while in school for our formula team.

[carbon_black]

Our team has been using Solidworks for a few years now, although recently we have struck contact with an Autodesk representative. She came in to our shop the other day and did a general demo what Inventor can do and how it may be applicable to us. We then gave her a couple of example design files from solidworks, showing the kind of design/calculation based stuff we do, and she said she'll try to get them going in Inventor. I'm very curious to see what she can rustle up. Pending the outcome of that, we may migrate the team across to Inventor.

[Brett Neale]

I can't say I've ever designed a FSAE car using Inventor (we used Solid Edge at UARC), but I use it all day every day at work now and I would highly recommend it to any teams out there who are after a good intuitive CAD package. It handles large assemblies VERY well, and the drafting environment is top-notch and very easy to work with. Right now I'm running a model of a bio conversion facility with over 3000 parts and 18000 occurrences (with 4GB of RAM), and it's still as usable as if I was working on a single part. Can't say that about Solid Edge or Solidworks!

[carbon_black]

Indeed, the handling of large assemblies is what got us looking into using Inventor to start with. Solidworks has proven to be less than stable for us, and it's error reporting isn't great either. When it crashes, it simply just hangs there and has to be killed from the process manager - which is impossible to do with a student account on our university computers. Since it's hanging once or twice a day, something is wrong. (admittedly, it's Solidworks 07 - not a newer version.)

[Grant Mahler]

I want to preface these comments by saying Inventor was the first 3D design package I used. I spent a year in AutoCAD in 2d before moving into Inventor. Also, the package I had at the time (3 years ago) was already a couple years old. I've learned a lot since then, and it may have been my ignorance at the time - that I was misusing the software somehow.

My biggest issue with Inventor was stability. The back button and the save button both could lock up the machine and corrupt the file(s). Not every time, but enough times throughout the 9 months that I used Inventor that I brought in the schools IT department to diagnose the problem. They gave up, and told me they forwarded the issues to AutoDesk.

I don't know whether the issue was resolved, as I transferred schools. But after 9 months of corrupted files due to the save and back buttons, I swore I would never use AutoDesk products again. YMMV.

[exFSAE]

We only used SW for designing the car, as the Uni had a heap of licenses. However, I used Inventor at a previous job and preferred it. Functionality compared to SW is very similar overall, but as has been stated the large assemblies are handled MUCH better in Inventor.

It's worth looking into.

[Anvit Garg]

I have recently contacted Melissa Thomas at regarding the original post. As a result, Autodesk arranged for someone to fly to my university and lecture about the basics of Inventor.

They have been extremely helpful and have helped provide new motivation for our developing team.

I highly recommend contacting them regarding any of their products!

[Chris Lane]

How does Inventor compare to Solidworks in FEA and motion analysis terms?

I used Autocad (2D) a lot in high school and really liked it, and I've been using Solidworks ever since. I have to say this thread has me very interested in Inventor.

I like the look of Freewheel. I'm going to try it out next week and try to put a model of the car on our team website.

[SNasello]

Inventor has a quick FEA analysis powered by ANSYS that is built into the software. I found it very easy to apply loads and constraints. Additionally, all dimensions and loads that you apply are saved in a design table that allows you to quickly change them, which is a really nice feature. It allows you to export the analysis to ansys for additional post processing or mesh refinement.

I didnt look into any motion analysis features.

[Chris Lane]

We also have a full ANSYS workbench license, and we find it pretty difficult and time consuming to convert a Solidworks geometry to that of Ansys.

Can Inventor files open directly in Ansys?

[SNasello]

I havn't tried as i am running inventor on my personal laptop at the moment (which runs it very smoothly i have to say compared to solidworks and solid edge) and dont have an Ansys liscence on it. If you have access to a computer with ansys that you can install programs on without administrative issues i would strongly suggest signing up at the above link and downloading the softare to trial it. Its always good to get experience with as many solid modelling packages as you can anyways.

[Brett Neale]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris Lane:
We also have a full ANSYS workbench license, and we find it pretty difficult and time consuming to convert a Solidworks geometry to that of Ansys.

Can Inventor files open directly in Ansys? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which version of Workbench do you have Chris? I think V10 and up put an ANSYS menu in the menubar of Inventor if you specify that you have Inventor during installation. I've never used Inventor+ANSYS, but Solid Edge+ANSYS worked very well, much better than COSMOS and a different package. You can call up Workbench from inside the CAD package, which does all the conversion and basic setup. If you change your geometry you can update it very easily and no loads/constraints get lost like COSMOS seems to do every time you update.

As for built-in FEA packages like Inventor's FEA, I would highly recommend using a dedicated package instead, like COSMOS or ANSYS Workbench. After running FEA for the past year at work, the Inventor FEA just doesn't cut it (even though it's a stripped-down version of ANSYS).

[Chris Lane]

We use the latest Multiphysics version. Its V11 I think....

I'll have to have a play with it and see what's what.

[Thom Tremblay]

Thank you for the feedback on Melissa's initial posting. I'm glad to hear that there are users who've had great experiences with Inventor.

I would like to open the door to anyone using or considering using Inventor for thier car design to ask me questions regarding the use of the tool. You can reach me at thom.tremblay@autodesk.com.

I would highly, highly recommend taking a look at the tutorials that are installed with Inventor in particular the Design Accelerator tools and also downloading the Student curriculum from http://students.autodesk.com.

There are a number of capabilities within Inventor that are perfect for FSAE car design that very few people are using. There are surface modeling tools but they work very differently than traditional surfacing tools. We also offer Autodesk AutoStudio on the Education community site and that is tool that the automakers use and some of the European teams have been using.

Please let me know who I can help. I can point you to resources, offer advice on using the tool, and for certain schools I can come on site and do some basic training as well.

[Brett Neale]

Not to mention the frame generator... I haven't used it for round-tube frames, but for any structural frame I've tried it with it handled it well.

[Thom Tremblay]

I completely missed that. Thanks Brett. Custom sections can be added to the library if anyone is experimenting with extruded components or tube that isn't in the more machine design oriented library.

I would also suggest taking a look at http://labs.autodesk.com

There is a preview of an advanced analysis technology for Inventor on the site. This goes beyond the Dynamic Simulation and Ansys powered FEA that is built into the Inventor Professional that you can get for free at the Education Community site. There's always something being tested there.