Setting up a Trailer

[Ehsan]

I've been put in charge of setting up our newly acquired trailer and I was trying to see what kinds of things people find useful to outfit the trailer with. Its an enclosed 18 footer. Here is my list so far:
1.) tile floor
2.) finished walls
3.) Lights
4.) Power outlets
5.) Generator
6.) Benches
7.) Cabinets
8.) Tool boxes
9.) Air compressor stand
10.) Portable Welder (maybe)
11.) Fridge (cold drinks)
12.) Tire Racks

Any other ideas would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Jarrod]

not too sure about the tile floor, checkerplate tends to be more durable and easier to clean. A marquee or annexe off the side is very useful, especially in testing, those off you who have seen the Monash trailer know what I mean, and space for a BBQ is essential. I you are kitting it out yourself, you could consider puttingt he compressor away up the front, and run an airline back to an extendable hose reel at the back of the trailer. Depends on your layout, but it can save moving the compressor around, or tripping over air lines. Make sure you have adequate ventilation around your generator.

[Daves]

A Vice

And with the lighting, make sure you install some DC incandescent lights and some AC fluorescent lights. I think we have a drill press, and the portable welder is a must.

[RagingGrandpa]

Do you *really* have time to be setting up a trailer? Couldn't you find a way to spend your time to make the car go faster? I know we have our new-ish bare-walled bare-wood floored trailer that we've done exactly nothing to and noone has ever complained.

Portable welder?? I understand things break sometimes, but they shouldn't be things that require welding on-the-spot to fix. Jeez

[-]

We have infact used a welder to tack one or two things on while testing the car. A portable 100v fluxcore mig welder comes in pretty handy at those times. You can plug it into any household outlet without the need for an argon bottle.

[Gonzo]

You really use a mig welder on your race car? You are having us on aren't you?

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

There is nothing wrong with using a MIG on a racecar. Proper MIG'ing is still a lot better than improper TIG'ing plus it is a hell of a lot faster.

[Farls]

A bench grinder might be nice too

[PatClarke]

Isn't a 'Mig welder' a metal worker in a Russian aircraft factory? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
PDR

[Frank]

im with you Geoff

id prefer to see an oxy than a mig

[JonBoy]

Have to agree with Walbro, mig is a good option, if only for speed. (sorry frank - no more oxy for me) It's always difficult to find good info though on what's good to use.

[-]

A proper mig weld can be just as good as a proper tig weld, It all comes down to set up and cleaning before hand. As someone who has had to mig stuff together in the silverdome parkinglot late at night (for somebody elses car) its great cause its fast, and it beats waiting inline for one of the Lincoln guys to help you our (they are often busy in the early parts of competition). If you have a portable mig welder, bring it, if not, don't worry about it.

[Charlie]

Yeah I hate TIGs they don't even have the cool wire that comes out, what a rip!

[IsheeM]

I just returned from Lincoln Electrics Basic Motorsport Welding Class and this course and this company are first class. Lincoln is very knowledgable and this class does a wonderful job of transferring some of that knowledge to us little guys. I think anyone who gets a chance to attend this class should go for it. Anyway as long as I am around my school, we will be tig welding the chassis.

Michael

[-]

I also took this class, and apart from having to spend a week in Cleveland Ohio, the education and instruction was top notch. I would recommend this class any up and coming welder that works with there fsae team. Also Lincoln expressed the intrest while I was there to come teach a few teams at ones if they can schedule something together. If any of teams are interested I can give you the contact information for the people at lincoln.

Also if you go to this class there is a motel 6 (i think that was the name of it) about 5 miles from the school that is right next to a Hooters. Rooms are cheap for the week, and the neighbors are nice.

[Gonzo]

I just dont see how mig is a good option. Unless your chassis is constructed from I beams. Mig is for structural steel fabrication not racecar fabrication! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tig isn't hard and its not that slow if you know what you're doing. I suppose it helps if you've had experience in tig welding.

[JDF]

Of course you can get a good mig machine to weld as good as a TIG box, however I would be reluctant to use a MIG on 4130. The mig process heats a very small area of metal very rapidly, and allows it to cool fairly rapidly. 4130 does not like this kind of rapid, narrow heat cycle. By the same principle, you should never cool a welded joint with water, or weld on pieces below a temp of 65F or so. A well laid TIG bead will spread the heat over a larger zone of the metal, allowing it to cool more slowly and evenly, reducing the chance for residual stresses. This apply even more so to an Oxy setup which heats an even larger area.

With that said, what are some opinions on stress relieving 4130 with an oxy torch. In Engineer to Win, Smith recomends that every 4130 weld be stress relieved. However in Performance Welding, the autor states that reliable stress relief cannot be had from a torch, and any attempts are likely to create more residual stresses. Thougths?

[Frank]

Ok I know this thread is supposed to be about trailers

But I got to clear my "beef" with MIG welding

My experiences include 3 years of NDT on weldments, and from those years, I have seen (through MPI and x-ray) the biggest problem with MIG

MIG gives you a weldment that often looks good visually (especially to the person that did the welding), but more often than not suffers from cold lap and lack of sidewall fusion

I'm absolutely sure good weldments can be produced by MIG on thin wall, but I think that with limited skill, set up time, and especially when you have poor surface preparation, you're more likely to get better results from TIG or oxy

A lot of people think I'm on drugs when I talk about oxy, but when its done with good equipment and (a little) care, i think it give excellent results

Frank

[Big Daddy]

I have to agree with Frank if a TIG weld looks bad it usually is but with a MIG a bad looking weld could have very good penitration. But a proporly trained MIG welder should not have any problems. As far a MIGing 4130 I did some tests butt welding .049 tubing and putting them in an 80 ton press both the TIG and MIG broke at the same place so I am not sure that the heat shock effect is as bad as everyone thinks it is. For the life of these cars I believe a MIG is a fesible solution for a beginning team, and truth be known that in the heat of competition MIGing is a little bit faster than OXY. Plus MIGs are much smaller than a TIG machine. Just My 2 cents.

[Frank]

totally faster big daddy, yep I suppose that's good

just another titbit of information about MIG

you can "hear" if a MIG weld is good

a bad MIG weld sounds like tearing a sheet of paper very very slowly (like an intermittent crackle.. a bit like shoddy sparklers burning)

a good MIG weld sounds like paper being torn very quickly

i remember when we heard the "slow torn paper sound" we thought a long day was ahead of us (takes ages to test crappy welds)

if the sound is like paper being torn too fast: expect undercut (which is fairly harmless compared to lack of fusion)

[Gonzo]

Thank you Frank and JDF for your input. I wasn't going to get into the specifics of it but I know from my experience welding large fuel tanks that the MIG leaves a lot of porosity behind. This combined with its tendancy for undercut welds leads to poor quality welding.

Why else do all reputable racecar chassis builders use either the tig or oxy? I do agree that oxy welding is still a very important skill for light fabrication.

Sorry to go so far off topic but as a welder I think its an important point.

[RagingGrandpa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JDF:
With that said, what are some opinions on stress relieving 4130 with an oxy torch. In Engineer to Win, Smith recomends that every 4130 weld be stress relieved. However in Performance Welding, the autor states that reliable stress relief cannot be had from a torch, and any attempts are likely to create more residual stresses. Thougths? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We stress-relieve most welded parts, and they seem to 'spring back' when removed from the jigs much less than if we hadn't stress relieved.

And I was taught MIG with the 'sizzling bacon' sound, dunno what this paper tearing stuff is all about. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[JonBoy]

sorry to not let the topic die (and being pedantic) - but these beasts are apparantly meant to be made on a production line at the rate of 4 per day.... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Charlie]

Umm... I don't know if you've ever seen a production line. But producing a product at the rate of 4 per day, does not mean you start from nothing and build 4 cars in one day. It means you have 4 completed items out the door every day.

Besides time is never an excuse for using improper methods. (Well, unless its a week before comp. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

[JonBoy]

yeah, but its kinda about being able to produce a suitable product for the intended market and minimising manufacturing cost. (along with all the rest)

j

(I think ill quit now before i say anything too doughie)