Things that you should have in your workshop

[Kemper]

Ok, the title is catchy but I have no useful information to add. Actually I was trying to find a tool list or something like that using "tool list", "required tools" and "getting started" on the search engine and I found a lot of cool stuff about how to get a team started, being it about sponsors, recruitment or basic knowledge.

But, what if the team is really a new team with absolutely no workshop, tools or know-how to search the right things? Guess who fits exactly in this case...

So, people with experience, help us to create a good source for future teams! The idea of this is the basic-basic-you-must-have-this-before-going-to-fancy-things-like-a-mill tool/equipment list. I'm not saying that having a mill/lathe/cnc/autoclave in your workshop is something bad, but for a beginning team this is a bit too much (considering that we can use our university's ones or sponsors).

And before someone say "you should add something too!", I'll do my contribuition:

A set of allen wrenches
A set of sprocket wrenches
A good vernier caliper
A good ruler
A couple of different sized monkey wrenches
A screwdriver set

This is where we started...

Thanks in advance for any contribuition!

[vreihen]

A first aid kit, fire extinguisher, and safety glasses..... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[D Collins Jr]

I would not want to try to build one of these cars without a bench grinder in the shop. But more importantly:

2 Hand Drills
AT LEAST one COMPLETE drillbit index
All the JB Weld and Kwik that is in your city

[Rickertsen2]

I don't think there is any way to get by without having access to the following

Mill
Lathe
TIG Welder
Tube Bender

Perhaps a sponsor might let you use their shop. I saw this alot when i did FIRST in high school.

I would add a good multimeter, a battery charger and a toolbox to put above mentioned tools in

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

A couple things I realized after graduating:

We always notched our tubes with a bench grinder. In the last couple years we started using Tube Miter (http://www.ozhpv.org.au/shed/files/tubemiter.exe) to get the correct angle, but it still took a long time and there were always big gaps.

Not wanting to repeat this lengthy process for my own frame project, I spent the money for a tube notcher (Harbor Freight, $50, spend $10 on a good hole saw) and busted out about 30 notches in an hour.

I can't believe we never bought one of these. Grinding tubes, checking fit, regrinding, and repeating for both ends of 40 tubes is no way to go through your FSAE career.

A mill will work too, but the notcher is just so quick and easy. Highly recommended.

I Second Collins on the drill bits. I would find the funds for a couple large sets of very good drill bits. My first experience milling with good drillbits, I thought I accidentally bought some super machinable alloy, but I had just spent four years building cars with hand-me-down bits that had been beaten to hell by every engineering student at Oklahoma for the past ten years. Buy them, lock them up, and assign a team member to be in charge of replacing the lost and broken ones periodically.

Try to use some restraint on the JB kwik, but you should have several packs at the competitions and tests.

Also, magnetic pickup tools (http://www.allmagnetics.com/device/pickuptool.htm). And I second the fire extinguisher, saftey glasses and first aid kit.

[MikeDutsa]

a belt sander is a must for finish work on sheetmetal and tube end clean up.

[Wesley]

Other than basics like socket and wrench sets...

A good hacksaw
A working bolted down vise with some soft jaw inserts (can be strips of wood even)
Basic electrical crimper and soldering iron

[AJS]

Ball peen hammers, tin snips, rivet guns, arbor press

[Brian S]

One of our sponsors last year wanted to get us new tools, and we replaced almost everything. Here's the list:

Air tool set - die grinder, impact gun
Craftsman 263 piece tool set
Craftsman Ratcheting Wrench Set
Screw driver set
Dewalt 18V battery pack
Craftsman Torque Wrench - 3/8 drive 25-250 in*ln
Craftsman 8 piece plier set
Craftsman 1/4 air swivel x3
Craftsman quick connect coupler x3
Craftsman 1/4 quick connect studs
Makita varaible speed angle grinder
Craftsman 3/8" x 50' Air Hose
JD Squared Tubing bender
JD Squared Die 1" (3 180)
115 Piece Drill Bit Set
cutoff wheels (Die Grinder) 50 pack
cutoff wheels (Chop Saw) 10 pack
Milwaukee 17 piece hole saw kit
Craftsman 1" hole saw
OTC 8 pc. Snap Ring Pliers Set
Extension cord reels
Air hose reels
electric hand shear
Dead blow hammers

The Craftsman tool kits are nice because the case is molded for each socket, so you can't just throw everything in the tool box, they have to go back in their place keeping everything sorted.

[exFSAE]

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Air tank
<LI>Abrasive cutoff air tools
<LI>A chop saw (MUST have)
<LI>Set of cheap DIAL calipers (why bother with vernier?)
<LI>Hidden box of Sharpies. Only let 1 or 2 out at a time
<LI>Oxy-acetylene torch
<LI>Plasma cutter
<LI>If you're going to have monkey wrenches.. they should be of a size no one can use.
<LI>Full set of english and metric wrenches.. double up on 7/16", 1/2", and 9/16"
<LI>1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" socket drives
<LI>1/2" drive breaker bar
<LI>3/8" drive torque wrench
<LI>1/4-3/8-1/2" adapters
<LI>Full sets of sockets
<LI>Full set of english and metric allen keys, with EXTRA 3/16" keys!
<LI>Rubber mallet
<LI>Red shop rags
<LI>Lots of brake cleaner
<LI>Boom box
<LI>AC/DC
<LI>Impact wrench
<LI>Tap and die set, metric and english
<LI>Moly-D
<LI>Red bull
[/list]

[A Richards]

Sandpaper
Car Bog
Paint Brushes
5mm Hex key
Plug spanner
Someone that knows how to use the above...

[Derf]

A pedestal grinder
A large table, preferably:
<LI> Level
<LI> Flat
<LI> Steel/Cast Iron/Metal
<LI> Stiff
<LI> T-Slots or Threaded Holes for fixturing (preferably with associated hardware)

Personally, our team has two, one 3x10x1 foot for frame fixturing and building, and one 5x8x1 foot for general testing, fixturing, and chassis setup. Both are tables off old planes/mills, have T-slots, and are supported at a comfortable working height.

[Adam G]

After you have all of your basic tools you might want to look into obtaining some type of steel frame table. The best design will be junk if you don't have a way to accurately build to spec. Steel tables are nice because you can tack parts and supports to them while you are still mocking up other parts.

[Prohet][]

Whiteboard / blackboard
minifridge (an esky will do too)
microwave
phone

[Fred G]

A set of files
Wire brush for cleaning files
Needle files

[RiNaZ]

1. sawhorses
2. A good air compressor where you can use two air tools at the same time w/out it losing too much air. It'll cost more, but save you later.
3. Big and long ruler with levels.
4. compass
5. Drill press
6. A couple of battery pack for each power drill.
7. Fan (FL, CA, AZ, etc)
8. Heavy Duty soap
9. Acetone
10. Rags (lots of em)
11. Push broom
12. Dozens of trash can (you can never have enough)
13. welding gloves +jacket +helmet
14. Degreaser for your floor

When you're a new team, some team members might bring in their own tool set while waiting for the school to supply the basic tools. So it's a good idea to make a mark on the tools that the school or the sponsors supply. Maybe put some florescent yellow or red on the wrench. This way, you can distinguish between personal set and the one that the school supplies.

[Rickertsen2]

This might be one of the few threads here on FSAE.com where people are genuinely giving suggestions rather than being elitest assholes.

[RiNaZ]

maybe becoz he
1. present his question in plain good english, writing instead of 'texting'.
2. Did use the search button
3. giving his own thoughts before asking from others.

[alumasteel]

- heavy duty grit soap (the orange smelling stuff)
- a tape measure.. you can never have enough tape measures
- silver sharpies.. good for writing on tubes
- cat litter (or the industrial equivalent) for cleaning spills
- a method of keeping inventory of tools easily
- a good tire pressure gauge.. will need to measure accurately down to around 15 psi

Although, quite possibly the three things that will make your life easier than anything else are: a way to notch tubes quickly AND accurately, a way of keeping tools organized because nothing is more frustrating than spending 30 mins doing a 5 min job because you can't find a 1/2" wrench, and a sharp set of quality drill bits (and a locked case to put them in if you leave them in your university shop).

Out of curiosity, are you moving into your own shop that is separate from the university? I was wondering what the reasoning for that is since a university shop (most of them) would be a great asset for new teams.

[Kemper]

First of all, thank you for all the replies, it was waaaaaaay faster than I thought and brought up more things than we predicted. And we got even a first post from someone! That's good =)

So, about our situation, lets say that the bureaucracy down here forbids us to use the workshops when we need and we just got a space for us on the newly-created automotive department. But the building we are moving in is brand new (finished during summer vacations) and no tools or furniture are available. We don't want to wait the school get us some permit to use the workshops because that will be probably when the teacher is available too (read: no all-nighters), so we are doing by ourselves the whole stuff. As weird as it may sounds, the school gave us financial support but get the composites lab, machine shop, wind tunnel and other fancy things to work with us has been a fight... Anyway, every team has its own situation =]

I'm working on a compiled list of everything said above and I will try to sort them on priority levels. Again, I will need feedback before proceeding to the "Let's get'em!" part. Hopefully I will get it done by today, but I still have to do some research about the tools because, as I mentioned before, we have not much knowledge about them.

Thanks again, I will post the list soon!

[Kemper]

Here is the compiled list:

Hand Tools/Safety equipments/furniture

Priority One (no matter what, you must have):

First Aid Kit
Fire Extinguisher
Safety Googles
Welding safety equipment (gloves, helmet, jacket)

One complete drill bit index
One complete screwdriver set
One complete allen keys (metric AND imperial) set, extras for 3/16"
One complete wrench (metric AND imperial) set, double up on 7/16", 1/2", and 9/16"

One complete set of socket wrenches (or two, one for small things and one for big things)
Ruber mallet
Ball peen Hammer
A good Hacksaw

Basic electrical crimper and soldering iron
A multimeter
Measuring calipers (vernier, dial, digital, up to you)
Tape measure

A good ruler set (steel rulers)
A compass
A good protractor
A height gage

A box of Sharpies (silver for tubes)
Extension cord reels
Air hose reels
Heavy duty grit soap (i guess is pink coloured and smells like orange)

Rags (lots of them)
Broom
Trash Cans
Degreaser for floor

A large table, preferably:
Level
Flat
Steel/Cast Iron/Metal
Stiff
T-Slots or Threaded Holes for fixturing (preferably with associated hardware)

Sawhorses
A set of files
wire brush for cleaning files
A working bolted down vise with some soft jaw inserts (can be strips of wood even)


Priority Two (might wait a little but you will need before/during test phase):

Jb weld (several packs)
Tin snips
Rivet Gun
Torque Wrench - 3/8 drive 25-250 in*ln (don't know the ranges, but as this was the only value listed...)

a good tire pressure gauge


Priority Three (life will be easier with, but not impossible without):

One set of Ratcheting Wrench
Dead blow hammer
minifridge (an esky will do too)
microwave
phone



Power Tools / electrical devices / related

Priority One (no matter what, you must have):

Welding equipment (TIG, MIG, Arc Welder. Most desirable to less desirable order)
Bench Grinder
Tube notcher and a hole saw kit
Air compressor (if possible one that can handle two tools without loosing pressure)
Air tool set (die grinder, impact gun)
Hand drill
Chop saw


Priority Two (buy if you have money to spare, not having at hand will slow you down a bit, you can use sponsor's/university's one):
Drill Press
Tube bender and appropriate die (it can be priority one, depending on the team/uni)
Belt sander
Abrasive cutoff air tool
Plasma cutter


Priority Three (Better use sponsors/universtity's one, unless you are LOADED):
Mill
Lathe
Autoclave
CNC machine

I guess I put everything here, if I missed any priority/item, please let me know =)

[Magnarama]

These are consumables, but possibly the most useful things you will get. Quality zipties, duct tape and fabric tape http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Also for the crimper pleeeease put ratcheting in front of it. It's not much more expensive than a 'basic' crimper, but the job it does is worlds apart.

I'd also be tempted to say that the fridge and microwave could be placed into priority one. Having those two items in the workshop is really handy. We also have cans of soft drink in ours and people buy them for a dollar and the money raised is used for general shits and giggles items.

[Rickertsen2]

Make friends with the peoeple responsible for the automotiveshop/composites lab/machine shop. You need these people on your side. In time as your team gains respect, access to these things should become easier.

[exFSAE]

Damn how did I leave ZIP TIES off my list. Those are F essential.

I only see now where you're posting from. Not sure how much English hardware you'll use. For us, we used either AN or SHCS hardware for just about everything. Since suspension fasteners tend to be 1/4", 5/16", or 3/8" (though we've migrated toward all 1/4") having double 7/16, 1/2 and 9/16 wrenches is a good idea. Likewise if you have a heap of 1/4" SHCS on your car, since 3/16" is the allen key for it they tend to get misplaced easily.

If you're going to use all metric hardware.. there's some savings!

If you're going to get JB Weld... well.. at least it isn't JB Kwik. But you might as well just buy some "legit" 3M epoxies. They have one for every application. Composite bonding, metal-on-metal, probably high temp stuff...

RTV would also be an essential.. red for high temp, blue for extra oily surfaces.

Loctite..

And of course, Race Tape and Speed Tape. They are different, so do not get them confused.

This is race tape
http://www.micromatic.com/images/3/300x300/ES-DT180.jpg

This is speed tape
http://www.packdaily.com/pk_data%5CManufactures%5C00115000000309%5CAluminum %20Foil%20Tape.jpg

Race tape is good for all motorsport applications. Speed tape.. I forget why we originally started using it.. perhaps to seal radiator stuff.. but it makes your car look fast. Guaranteed to add 3.8hp. In all seriousness aluminized tape works pretty well, but McMaster sells stainless steel tape which looks pretty BA.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

I can't believe I also forgot zip ties.

Buy them in bulk; 10,000 is not too many.

[Brian Evans]

The big list left off oxy-acetylene welding torches/bottles/etc. Ain't no race shop in the world without a flame wrench, plus you can actually weld with them too...life before Tig, how did they get along?

Here are the two tools that I loan out at the track most often, I am amazed that people don't have these. Portable air compressor, and a long reach Allen key socket set. Major convenience tools.

Brian

[Peter7307]

1/2 in square drive torque wrench if it has not already been listed above.

An attitude of leaving tools , work areas clean and safe and treating tools with the respect they are due. They are not your personal property to be loaned out to friends and family as you feel the need.

Suitable in/out arrangement to keep track of the items in question.
A pegboard or something similar is usually sufficient.

Speaking of which...
I recall seeing one "mechanic" fired on the spot when the threw a torque wrench over the hood of a car onto the work bench because he was too damn lazy to walk around and put it back on the pegboard where it came from.

Along with a set of fire extinguishers a purpose built cupboard for holding thinners , acetone and other potential fire starters and combustibles.

Some sort of routine service and safety schedule for things like the air compressor , welder , grinders and anything likely to do damage to the person using it.
Same for tools needing calibration checks.

Some sort of office for keeping records , drawings , books etc out of the workshop environment.

Decent lighting and ventilation and a lock on the access door !

Cheers , Pete.

[Drew Price]

<LI> A set of telescoping guages, to measure bores.
<LI> A vernier or digital micrometer (I don't know why they even make micrometers that don't direct read ten-thousandths, or thousandths of a millimeter)
<LI> Big box of ScotchBrite or other lightly abrasive hand pads
<LI> An accurate machinist's compass, to make sure your tubing angles are correct
<LI> A machinist's square, and a way to protect it to make sure it stays square
<LI> A large carpenter's square, for layouts
<LI> Roll of butcher paper, for layouts
<LI> Sharp deburring tools
<LI> An assortment of countersinks to deburr the edges of drilled holes and machined bores
<LI> Some loose steel ball bearings, to peen the corners of critical bolt holes in structural applications
<LI> Masking tape, for labelling things
<LI> A few sharp scribes (no scribe marks on stressed parts!)
<LI> A metal tri-square for your machinist's rule
<LI> GearWrenches - I almost can't work on a car anymore without GearWrench ratcheting wrenches. I personally have an SAE and a metric set of these (http://www.amazon.com/ACE-TRADING-GEARWRENCH-2104719-SAE/dp/B000GATCHQ) that live in the shop. There are attachments to make the 13mm / 1/2 in into a short height socket wrench as well. Comes with a 1/4 in nut driver and assortment of bits, and 1/4 in and 3/8 in sockets.
<LI> A few different styles of ViseGrip pliers
<LI> A few different styles of regular pliers, needlenose, Channel Lock, etc.
<LI> Gas lenses and large argon cups for your welders - if you're still using those little bitty argon cups on the tig torch when there's not a space constraint, you're nuts!
<LI> You can't have too many clamps ..... ever.
<LI> Cheap IR temp gun, for dyno stuff, testing brake operation, check annealing temps, whether your Athlon workstation can take any more CATIA, etc.
<LI> Simple Green, Windex, RainX
<LI> A REALLY powerful shop vac
<LI> Carbide grinding burrs
<LI> Some people already said it, but lots and lots of shop rags ..... you can't have too many of these either
<LI> Buy lots of various sizes Zip-Loc bags to keep assemplies clean and together - we save all the McMaster bags that things for the shop come in - we have thousands.
<LI> Get some milk crates from behind one of your dining halls for easy road crates, for spray paints, oil, tubing scraps, McMaster bags, etc.

Most important thing in our office:
<LI> A bound set of the current rules, with that year's rules changes outlined in the front.

Each of our captains has their own set full of notes and highliting and such, but the office / tool box / book shelf should have a set that stays in the shop.

Best,
Drew

[exFSAE]

Gear wrenches are that good? I'd seen 'em.. look cool.. thought about buyin a full set but didn't know if it was worth it.

And +1 on the gas lenses. You might think theyre big and awkward, and how the hell could you use em for getting in tight places.. but they seriously rock for gas coverage. You can run a LOT of stick out with the tungsten and get into really tight areas.

On a similar note.. for TIG welding rod I highly reccomend really small gauge wire. 0.045" 70S-2 (or your favorite) and 0.032" stainless wire (of your choice). Makes for really nice control on thin stuff.

For aluminum, thicker tends to be better. I didn't use anything less than 3/32 or 1/8" rod.

Oh and a pedestal wire wheel rocks as well for cleaning the ends of 4130 tubes before you weld em. Wire wheel the crap off, and wipe with alcohol or acetone. Clean metal, and tight fitup.. will make for hours less welding time at 3am, and less time bitching out your suspension guy for leaving 1/4" to 3/8" gaps to weld.

Autodarkening hood.. also a real good investment.. you can get by without one, but it makes life a lot easier when you're in some really awkward position on the ground, welding the frame and trying to control the pedal with your knee, elbow, or ass.

[Drew Price]

Originally posted by exFSAE:
Gear wrenches are that good?

I really like them. The packaging advertises the swing between pawls on the ratchet, I think it's 6* for the smaller ones, and 7* for the larger ones, so especially in confined spaces you can make sure that you can actually ratchet fasterners in and out with limited space to spin the wrench.

I prefer the non-reversible ones, because the box end is thinner, improving access, and there is no flange on the rotating portion of the box end to retain a nut like some of the reversible ones have so you can slide it down a long stud to get it on the bottom jam nut for example, handy if it has started to round.

The open ends are on the thin side too, compared to a standard Craftsman for example - somewhere in between a regular wrench and a thin or ignition wrench.

They also come with a lifetime warranty, and I have had my metric set for coming up on 6 years, and have never had to get a wrench replaced, and I have bashed on them with hammers and the crescent wrenches that I don't have to get stuck / rusted / stubborn bolts off my old Saab 900's. They're quality.

Completely agree on the auto-darkening hood. One of the welding info sites I came across has a review of a $55 auto-darkening hood which he says actualy works really nice, and is even somewhat adjustable, HERE (http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/auto-darkening-welding-helmets.html) .

Best,
Drew

[exFSAE]

Nice. Might have to pick some up.

Back on the subject of stuff to have in the shop, how bout this one? First aid kit that's stocked and in plain sight - So you don't have to use makeshift bandages out of paper towels, shop rags, electrical tape, and/or zip ties.

[Fred G]

Make sure the first aid kid is stocked with superglue, good for bonding cuts =P

[Chris Lane]

<LI> Power extension leads + Power boards
<LI> Air Compressor
<LI> Dremel
<LI> CRC, WD40, Degreaser, Carby Cleaner, and Brake Cleaner
<LI> Loctite products
<LI> A small library of small nuts, bolts, and washers (budget permitting)
<LI> A good set of parallels for milling
<LI> A good quality dial micrometer thingy for clocking up vices and workpieces
<LI> Rubber Mallet
<LI> Internet Access, or Yellow + White Pages
<LI> A Lathe (a small one is better than nothing)
<LI> A lockable cabinet for expensive parts
<LI> Nice set of pliers + multigrips
<LI> Good socket set
<LI> RAGS!!!!
<LI> Jerry can for fuel
<LI> A large whiteboard for ideas and meetings
<LI> A3 Laser Printer
<LI> Angle Grinder
<LI> Tube Linisher (we use ours a LOT)
<LI> Plenty of scrap cardboard
<LI> RACE TAPE!!!!
<LI> Vaccuum Cleaner
<LI> Small 2nd hand kiln that goes up to 900*C
<LI> A small hydraulic press for installing/removing bearings and inserts
<LI> Garbage bags (many uses here)
<LI> A business card organiser

And last but certainly not least, a nearby pub

[Austin B]

You can build an SAE car almost entirely with an angle grinder and epoxy. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Seriously though and angle grinder is very useful.

[Drew Price]

A few more along the lines of 'for the person' things:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE> <LI> A healthy awareness of just how badly you can hurt yourself on most of the equipment we use if you aren't paying 100% attention to what you are doing (a shop tech who doesn't have all 10 fingers he started with helps)
<LI> Never, EVER berate another team member in front of others. Do it in private if you have to, but be objective. Don't undermine the ability of your team to function as a team at any cost. That's an easy way to make sure you don't impress the design judges, forget to pack important items .... like wrenches, etc.
<LI> Never, EVER talk trash about a team member behind their back. It will get back to them. Our teams are too small and too close knit for it not to. It will burn you. I'm not always the best at this one, I know, but I try.
<LI> You don't have to like someone on your team to respect what they can do. Focus on that. [/list]

Aside: In high school I was heavy into classical music performance, and was nearly a music major. There is a story about the Principal Oboist and the Principal Clarinetist of the Chicago Symphony (I think). The clarinetist and oboist often sit next to one another in orchestral settings. They were both with the orchestra for something like 40 years, and probably still are. Both absolute masters of their field, very accomplished, well known, etc.

They HATED each other. Never spoke a word to each other outside of what they had to get across to make sure that they were exactly in harmony, matching styles, dynamics, etc. But they had great respect for the other's craft, and what they could do with their instrument, and knew it was in the best interest of the orchestra as a whole that their performance was as harmonious as possible.

I started thinking of that story a lot more after I became an engineer than when I was a musician.

Best,
Drew

[Aaron@Kaist]

Lots of Good information compiled here!! we are on are way to translating this information for the Korean market and obtaining sponsors for the equipment. If your university offers you a shop (place to work out of) and tools...Be thankful!!!!! btw anyone know of any companies that regularly sponsor FSAE for tools? or of any companies that would be interested in sponsoring tools?

Team Leader, Aaron Park
KAIST University
fsae.kaist.ac.kr

[Wesley]

I know in the past we've gotten praise from the judges on our "team spirit." Part of that is because we have a small team and that's easier to manage.

But we try to have a little fun together. In 2007, about the time we started having some serious shouting matches about various decisions, we started playing a little game called soccer four-square.

I think that game does wonders for morale - even if it's terrible for productivity, because it lets the team members feel like their taking a bit of aggression out on others in a constructive way.

And we also have a pretty easy-going group of people. Between things like that and having fun with the car (frilly pushbars, dummy dash knobs that go to 11, etc.) we let everyone vent a little bit with some pure communal creativity, without all that engineering crap.

[Brian Evans]

Drew Price wrote
Posted August 11, 2008 12:23 AM Hide Post
# A set of telescoping guages, to measure bores.
# A vernier or digital micrometer (I don't know why they even make micrometers that don't direct read ten-thousandths, or thousandths of a millimeter)

A big reason why they don't make every mic a tenth's reading mic is the difference between precision and accuracy. First, if your part is over 2" or 3", and you want to spec to less than a thou, you need to also spec temperatures. Second, the measurement technique used with a mic is really only accurate down to about a thou - user error means that you and your buddy will measure the same thing with the same tool and get different results at granularity of much less than a thou. Also - you can accurately interpolate to a quarter or half thou on any micrometer, simply by judging between the lines.

Now, comparative measurements done by one person with one tool can get pretty accurate. That's what gauge blocks are good for, dial bore gauges, etc. Snap gauges are pretty inaccurate if you're worried about tenth's...

Brian

[Drew Price]

True, but if your parts are larger than the range of the 2"-3" mic, are you really needing to hold a tolerance of under a thou? Most times not, sometimes maybe, and at that point you should be getting out the jo blocks and zeroing the thing before you do the final measurements anyways. I just never understood why a mic, which is geared towards the precision side of the Accuracy v. Precision scale, should show the same precision as the caliper, which is somewhere in the middle I suppose. Good calipers should be within 0.001" for anything appreciably large enough, it's only when I need under a thou that I go for the mic anyways, not worth the hassle if +/-0.001" will do.

We don't make our own wheel centers or flywheels, about the only things I can think of that teams would make where you do need the large size accuracy. Some of the brake rotor mounting flanges / offset plates we made last year maybe, but that's about it.

Repeatability really is the bane of existence though, you got that one.

Best,
Drew

[Drew Price]

True, but if your parts are larger than the range of the 2"-3" mic, are you really needing to hold a tolerance of under a thou? Most times not, sometimes maybe, and at that point you should be getting out the jo blocks and zeroing the thing before you do the final measurements anyways. I just never understood why a mic, which is geared towards the precision side of the Accuracy v. Precision scale, should show the same precision as the caliper, which is somewhere in the middle I suppose. Good calipers should be within 0.001" for anything appreciably large enough, it's only when I need under a thou that I go for the mic anyways, not worth the hassle if +/-0.001" will do.

We don't make our own wheel centers or flywheels, about the only things I can think of that teams would make where you do need the large size accuracy (for balance, as we don't have a balancer). Some of the brake rotor mounting flanges / offset plates we made last year maybe, but that's about it.

Repeatability really is the bane of existence though, you got that one.

Best,
Drew