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View Full Version : Yamaha Engines - WR450, R6 etc.



Big Bird
06-16-2004, 06:35 AM
Hi all,

I've got an exam tomorrow and I'm procrastinating, so here I am on the forums again.

I have been talking to Yamaha Australia a bit over the last few weeks about engine supply, after a few queries to our team about WR450 engines. YMA are pretty impressed with the growing professionalism in our comp, and are considering organizing supply of engines at landed cost price to Oz FSAE teams that are interested. Those who've been in the bike industry will know that you can't normally buy a new engine on its own, as the Japanese companies only build enough engines to suit the number of bikes they are building.

For those of you running or wishing to run R6's and other road bike engines, this might or might not be of assistance. YMA would need to know around three months ahead of the production run to notify Yamaha Japan, and supply would generally be around two to three months after by the time it was built and shipped. Given that new road bike engines can be sourced often from wrecks / auctions etc, the wait for a brand new engine might or might not be worth it.

The main reason we have been pursuing this through YMA is for supply of WR450 engines or similar. These are harder to find, simply because they are a new model, and wrecks just don't make it to the auctions (when you crash a dirt bike you just pick it up and keep riding).

Now, details about lead times and stuff. The WR450, like YZ's and other specialty racing stuff, are only produced in one production run per year. This is usually around Sept/Oct/Nov. Supply to Oz is then around two months after production, therefore maybe Dec/Jan . As mentioned above, ordering would need to take place a good two to three months before production, meaning in this case within the next couple of months.

Can't give exact costs here and now, but going from past experience Yamaha tends to sell new engine blocks at around 50-60% of the cost of the donor bike. The engines are usually supplied as a complete engine with electrics but no exhaust. Can't remember if they supply the carb, I think they do.

Payment would need to be cash in advance. YMA are generally hesitant to order engines due to past situations where stuff was brought in for in for people who then shot through, leaving them with expensive goods they couldn't sell.

If any Oz or NZ teams are interested in looking into this option, please email me on s2111344_don't_spam_me_@student.rmit.edu.au and we'll try to organize something. Please do NOT contact YMA directly, there are specific people in the company who are dealing with this and you probably won't get through to them. I've offered to act as go-between to minimize their inconvenience.

For Euro, US teams etc, I can't speak for your local Yamaha distributors but if you are keen let me know and we'll see if can organize contacts and processes from here. We are most likely visiting the UK distributor when we go to FStudent, so will mention it to them when we get there.

This is all big-time forward planning and it won't suit everyone, but this might help out teams looking to try something different. And sorry for the longest post yet, but i just wanted to make sure all the details were attended to.

Cheers all,

Big Bird
06-16-2004, 06:35 AM
Hi all,

I've got an exam tomorrow and I'm procrastinating, so here I am on the forums again.

I have been talking to Yamaha Australia a bit over the last few weeks about engine supply, after a few queries to our team about WR450 engines. YMA are pretty impressed with the growing professionalism in our comp, and are considering organizing supply of engines at landed cost price to Oz FSAE teams that are interested. Those who've been in the bike industry will know that you can't normally buy a new engine on its own, as the Japanese companies only build enough engines to suit the number of bikes they are building.

For those of you running or wishing to run R6's and other road bike engines, this might or might not be of assistance. YMA would need to know around three months ahead of the production run to notify Yamaha Japan, and supply would generally be around two to three months after by the time it was built and shipped. Given that new road bike engines can be sourced often from wrecks / auctions etc, the wait for a brand new engine might or might not be worth it.

The main reason we have been pursuing this through YMA is for supply of WR450 engines or similar. These are harder to find, simply because they are a new model, and wrecks just don't make it to the auctions (when you crash a dirt bike you just pick it up and keep riding).

Now, details about lead times and stuff. The WR450, like YZ's and other specialty racing stuff, are only produced in one production run per year. This is usually around Sept/Oct/Nov. Supply to Oz is then around two months after production, therefore maybe Dec/Jan . As mentioned above, ordering would need to take place a good two to three months before production, meaning in this case within the next couple of months.

Can't give exact costs here and now, but going from past experience Yamaha tends to sell new engine blocks at around 50-60% of the cost of the donor bike. The engines are usually supplied as a complete engine with electrics but no exhaust. Can't remember if they supply the carb, I think they do.

Payment would need to be cash in advance. YMA are generally hesitant to order engines due to past situations where stuff was brought in for in for people who then shot through, leaving them with expensive goods they couldn't sell.

If any Oz or NZ teams are interested in looking into this option, please email me on s2111344_don't_spam_me_@student.rmit.edu.au and we'll try to organize something. Please do NOT contact YMA directly, there are specific people in the company who are dealing with this and you probably won't get through to them. I've offered to act as go-between to minimize their inconvenience.

For Euro, US teams etc, I can't speak for your local Yamaha distributors but if you are keen let me know and we'll see if can organize contacts and processes from here. We are most likely visiting the UK distributor when we go to FStudent, so will mention it to them when we get there.

This is all big-time forward planning and it won't suit everyone, but this might help out teams looking to try something different. And sorry for the longest post yet, but i just wanted to make sure all the details were attended to.

Cheers all,

Chris Boyden
06-16-2004, 08:33 AM
Has anyone considered any the 5 valve engines from the Raptor 4 atvs? Is the WR450 a 5valve single? Anyway, I believe that they have 3 intake valves and two exhaust. The big Raptor is a 650 which means it would need to be destroked, while the YZF450 is a 439 cc single.
I think (don't quote me) they are dry sump motors or have an external oil pump.

Chris

Big Bird
06-16-2004, 09:12 PM
I believe the Raptor engine is the old XTZ660 engine - therefore would be five valves. It is actually a bit bigger and heavier that the WR/YZ450's, dunno the weight though. The XTZ has been on the market for quite some time so cheap engines shouldn't or wouldn't be hard to find. Don't know if the XTZ made it to the US though.

From our experience the smaller capacity of the YZ / WR is not a problem - plenty enough go in them, on the tracks we have driven on there are few if any places you are really chasing more acceleration. Consider that the larger engine might cause the dreaded pulsing in the restrictor that everyone is scared of. From the curves we have the 450 seems pretty well unaffected by the restrictor.

The WR is a semi-dry sump with a remote oil reservoir, I think the latest YZ went back to a wet sump to save a little weight.

Cheers,

Geoff

The guru of guru's
06-17-2004, 01:28 AM
Geoff
Do they come in purple? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Any cheaper for two?
Cheers
Dave.

Ashley Denmead
06-17-2004, 01:32 AM
LOL http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Igor
06-17-2004, 07:42 AM
Yes, they do come in purple. (or at least the exhaust does)
http://www.dutracing.nl/html2/images/car04/misc04/FS%20(4).JPG

:-)
Igor

gug
06-17-2004, 07:49 PM
if Igor's picture didnt work for you, go to http://www.dutracing.nl/html2/images/car04/misc04/, then click on FS (4).jpg

then you can tell me whats going on here. do exhausts really glow purple like that? awesome http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The guru of guru's
06-17-2004, 08:46 PM
looks like a neon light
haha

Igor
06-21-2004, 11:34 PM
Ok, I went by the shop yesterday and they told me the exhaust was plain red when the picture was taken, but the cheapo camera had some trouble handling it. Probably too much infra red.
Also the car is already running, so the rest of you guys will be in trouble this year at Formula Student :-)
Just kidding, but the car is sweeeeet!

Igor
Delft alum

Big Bird
11-04-2004, 09:39 PM
Just to revive this thread - I've recently received a response from Yamaha Australia in regard to lead times and supply of new WR and R6 engines from the factory. I had a few enquiries when I first posted this thread, so if you are in the Southern Hemisphere and are interested please message me.

Cheers all

The guru of guru's
11-05-2004, 04:18 AM
How cheap are yamummaha's?

jonno
11-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Geoff how you getting n with your '03 engine (presumably you're gonna be using that at fsae-a?) we're looking at getting our engine dnc'd somewhat like this (http://fsae.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=763607348&f=125607348&m=83010040811), the solidworks file you sent me a month back is a bit out like you thought it might be... give me a shout if you're keen for it
ps get yamaha oz to have a word with yamaha uk, i busted a gut all summer trying to source factory direct engines, we eventially got sponsored by an independent dealer
regards

Big Bird
11-07-2004, 05:56 PM
Thanks gents,

Ghost, can't put prices on the net - Yamaha Aus is trying to organize this as a special deal "on the semi-quiet" for FSAE teams - it would not be in their best interests to publish pricing info. PM me if you like.

Jonno, thanks for the offer, most appreciated. I'll mail you privately about it all. As for trying to organize engines through the UK, I'm trying to get our YMA contact to speak to his YMUK friends, and will see what they can organize. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers all,

Grover
11-10-2004, 08:46 PM
Big Bird,

Check your PM's.
I'm in.

woollymoof
11-10-2004, 08:49 PM
Big Bird,

When do you need to know by?