Spherical plain bearing housing design

[mangla]

I am using spherical plain bearing in A-arms. I can have inner bore diameter anything ranging from 8mm to 12mm subject to availability of bearing housing or weld cups in India.So i want to know:
How to make housing in workshop of inner diameter near to 22mm?
How to stake bearing in the housing?
If you can tell where i can buy ready-made housing in India of such a low inner diameter?

[mangla]

I am using spherical plain bearing in A-arms. I can have inner bore diameter anything ranging from 8mm to 12mm subject to availability of bearing housing or weld cups in India.So i want to know:
How to make housing in workshop of inner diameter near to 22mm?
How to stake bearing in the housing?
If you can tell where i can buy ready-made housing in India of such a low inner diameter?

[OspreysGoSWOOP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mangla:
I am using spherical plain bearing in A-arms. I can have inner bore diameter anything ranging from 8mm to 12mm subject to availability of bearing housing or weld cups in India.So i want to know:
How to make housing in workshop of inner diameter near to 22mm?
How to stake bearing in the housing?
If you can tell where i can buy ready-made housing in India of such a low inner diameter? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Use a 22mm reamer if you want a slip fit, or undersize it by a few thousands of an inch if you want a press fit.

The staking procedure can be found in the Aurora Bearing catalog, near the back.

[mangla]

Can you tell me which metal/alloy you used for making spherical bearing housing and i am using Skf GEH 10 C bearing??
And one basic question How to go for making housing:-- do we have to just use a reamer and make a hole of suitable diameter or anything else we have to do ? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Ben A]

hey boys,

it comes to my mind as if you have not the faintest glimmer what are you doing. The Material depends on your Material of your wishbones is. So you can use these fantastic black fiber material called Carbon Fiber with glued aluminium or steel or titan Inserts. Or Use steel and weld it to steel Tubes or milling a A-arm complete form one piece of steel or aluminium. Or you make a stamp design a of sheet metal.

To make a good hole into the metal use a CNC milling or turning maschine with a special spindle cutting tool or do it on a lathe

[shark.ashwa]

Mangla,

You can use the any metal acording to your wishbone design, I have seen teams use aluminium but most use steel. Do some research as to which is better.
Usually, you undersize the hole with the preceeding size drill and then use the reamer to achieve the proper fit/tolerance.

Regards,
Sharath

[povelocj]

Don't forget to add a 45 degree chamfer on each side of the hole for the staking procedure. I think our chamfers were 10 to 15 thousandths of an inch.

[OspreysGoSWOOP]

Page 76

http://www.aurorabearing.com/F...earing610Catalog.pdf (http://www.aurorabearing.com/Files/articles/AuroraBearing610Catalog.pdf)


At certain point you have to do some actual engineering and figure things out for yourself. FSAE.com is not here to spoon feed you.

Pick up the phone and call SKF and ask them or search google.

[Drew Price]

Ahhh.... I miss the good old days when we could get spoon fed by the masters of old... Garlic, BigBird, JerseyTom, Pat Clarke before be became really funny...



But alas. No more.

[Luniz]

Mangla, if you are seriously attempting to become an engineer, then I'm slightly horrified...

[Ben K]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drew Price:
Ahhh.... I miss the good old days when we could get spoon fed by the masters of old... Garlic, BigBird, JerseyTom, Pat Clarke before be became really funny...



But alas. No more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sad. But true

[PatClarke]

Quote Drew 'But alas. No more"

I don't think that is right guys.

The difference we are seeing these days is guys, especially from the Sub Continent, coming here and asking absolutly stupid questions without having done any research at all!

Remember, the judges and advisors see much more than you see on here.

What then really p**ses me off, is despite all the help and advice they have been given, directly and indirectly, in the past, they turn up with a car that can only be described as disgraceful.

The judges have decided that maybe some 'tough love' is in order. What is the old saying about 'giving a man a fish'?

I am as helpful as ever to a reasonable request!

Cheers

Pat

[OspreysGoSWOOP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PatClarke:
Quote Drew 'But alas. No more"

I don't think that is right guys.

The difference we are seeing these days is guys, especially from the Sub Continent, coming here and asking absolutly stupid questions without having done any research at all!

Remember, the judges and advisors see much more than you see on here.

What then really p**ses me off, is despite all the help and advice they have been given, directly and indirectly, in the past, they turn up with a car that can only be described as disgraceful.

The judges have decided that maybe some 'tough love' is in order. What is the old saying about 'giving a man a fish'?

I am as helpful as ever to a reasonable request!

Cheers

Pat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pat you don't do FSAE Michigan do you? You judge in Germany right?

[PatClarke]

Hi OGS,

I was banned from Michigan in the mid '90s by Steve Daum (For being too close to the students!!!), but when Steve Fox came to power there, he defied the ban and invited me back :-)

I was a Moderating Judge in Michigan in 2010 and 2011. Due to time constraints and recuperating from a back injury, I will not be in Michigan but I do intend to be in Lincoln this year.

I was a moderating judge at FSUK for the last couple of years, something I do on a sporadic basis.

I have been CDJ at every FSG since the beginning in 2006, both FSA events to date and at FSAEA, also since the first event in 2000.

Too many events to count!

Pat

[shark.ashwa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PatClarke:
Quote Drew 'But alas. No more"

I don't think that is right guys.

The difference we are seeing these days is guys, especially from the Sub Continent, coming here and asking absolutly stupid questions without having done any research at all!

Remember, the judges and advisors see much more than you see on here.

What then really p**ses me off, is despite all the help and advice they have been given, directly and indirectly, in the past, they turn up with a car that can only be described as disgraceful.

The judges have decided that maybe some 'tough love' is in order. What is the old saying about 'giving a man a fish'?

I am as helpful as ever to a reasonable request!

Cheers

Pat </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FACEPALM! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
I wish I could do something to stop such posts from getting on to the board, but I guess not!

Sharath

[Bemo]

Prove the opposite.

[shark.ashwa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bemo:
Prove the opposite. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He he...yeah http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif! I hope the present team members are watching this thread http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sharath

[bharath supra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mangla:
Can you tell me which metal/alloy you used for making spherical bearing housing and i am using Skf GEH 10 C bearing??
And one basic question How to go for making housing:-- do we have to just use a reamer and make a hole of suitable diameter or anything else we have to do ? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hi mangla,
the skf GEH 10c bearing has a radial dynamic load rating of 11.4KN, its static load rating is 28.5KN. its a steel/sinter bronze composite bearing.
First you have to know the amount of load to which the wishbone is subjected to. then decide the bearing size. the spherical bearings are also subjected to axial loads. and these bearings are very poor in axial loading.the Ptfe bearings which many other teams use have very good dynamic load rating compared to a similar steel/sinter bronze composite bearing. i suggest you to go for SKF GEH 12C which has a dynamic load rating of 18KN. for making a housing you will get all the dimensions and information from the SKF website. after that you an easily make a housing in a good lathe machine.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Awesome. How do you know what load rating he needs if he doesn't even know?! A+ for confidence though!

Anecdotally, there aren't a lot of spherical bearings on FSAE car suspensions that even need to be 10's... 8 is generous... 6 is usually in the right ballpark. For certain things you can sometimes even go smaller safely. 12's are ridonkulous.

[bharath supra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kirk Feldkamp:
Awesome. How do you know what load rating he needs if he doesn't even know?! A+ for confidence though!

Anecdotally, there aren't a lot of spherical bearings on FSAE car suspensions that even need to be 10mm... 8 is generous... 6 is usually in the right ballpark. 12's are ridonkulous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hi,
I think all the bearings which you are referring to are ptfe lined spherical bearing. I am talking about a steel/sinter bronze composite bearing.ptfe bearings are not available here. So i recommended him a higher diameter steel/sinter bronze bearing which has a similar load ratings compared to a 8mm ptfe bearing.

It was my first fsae post and i didn't expect such a sarcastic reply from a person who is a member of this forum from the past 8 years.

[shark.ashwa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bharath supra:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kirk Feldkamp:
Awesome. How do you know what load rating he needs if he doesn't even know?! A+ for confidence though!

Anecdotally, there aren't a lot of spherical bearings on FSAE car suspensions that even need to be 10mm... 8 is generous... 6 is usually in the right ballpark. 12's are ridonkulous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hi,
I think all the bearings which you are referring to are ptfe lined spherical bearing. I am talking about a steel/sinter bronze composite bearing.ptfe bearings are not available here. So i recommended him a higher diameter steel/sinter bronze bearing which has a similar load ratings compared to a 8mm ptfe bearing.

It was my first fsae post and i didn't expect such a sarcastic reply from a person who is a member of this forum from the past 8 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I think kirk is right when it comes to bearing sizes chosen by most FSAE teams. I think he was referring to the usual steel sintered bearings requiring lubrication.... BTW, if you don't mind me asking......how did you determine a bearing with a load rating of 18kN to be right?? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Oh and how did you come to know that PTFE lined bearings are not available in the market??

Sharath

[Kirk Feldkamp]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bharath supra:
It was my first fsae post and i didn't expect such a sarcastic reply from a person who is a member of this forum from the past 8 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent! 8 years tomorrow! I'll consider this an early birthday present. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Honestly though... if you think that was offensively sarcastic, stick around and hold on to your hat! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I see what you were trying to do there, but your reply sort of misses the point. Plain bearing or not, you still don't know what the forces he's designing for are. I would also have a hard time believing that there's no way to source higher quality spherical bearings and/or rod ends where you're at. I don't think they're normally an export-controlled item, so you should at least be able to import them from somewhere if you can't find them within your own country.

[bharath supra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kirk Feldkamp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bharath supra:
It was my first fsae post and i didn't expect such a sarcastic reply from a person who is a member of this forum from the past 8 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent! 8 years tomorrow! I'll consider this an early birthday present. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Honestly though... if you think that was offensively sarcastic, stick around and hold on to your hat! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I see what you were trying to do there, but your reply sort of misses the point. Plain bearing or not, you still don't know what the forces he's designing for are. I would also have a hard time believing that there's no way to source higher quality spherical bearings and/or rod ends where you're at. I don't think they're normally an export-controlled item, so you should at least be able to import them from somewhere if you can't find them within your own country. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hi kirk,
yes i still don't know know what the forces he's designing for. but i think the max load will be around 3-5KN. And by taking into consideration the axial loading, misalignment angle i recommended him a higher diameter bearing.because the only bearings suitable and available for this appliation are SKF GEH 10C, SKF GEH 12C, SKF GE 12 TXGR(PTFE bearing, this is the minimum size available). may be i think GEH 10c may be sufficient for his application but i went on the higher side.

coming to bearing availability, the different bearing companies are SKF, IKO, INA & NBC bearings.
i choose SKF because there is excellent information available in their website similar to aurora bearings.

And coming to importing the bearings, the 6 or 8mm ptfe bearing imported bearings costs around 3-4 times the SKF GEH 12C bearing, but it only weights slightly more.

[shark.ashwa]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And coming to importing the bearings, the 6 or 8mm ptfe bearing imported bearings costs around 3-4 times the SKF GEH 12C bearing, but it only weights slightly more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From where are you getting this information? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
The 8mm INA-FAG spherical bearing is the largest one we use on our car and sometimes I think even that is too much.....Cost around INR 400....($8.00). Have you searched just on the internet or actually gone to bearing suppliers?? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
And regarding the PTFE lined bearings, its not a must on your car....even the normal ones do well on your car!

Sharath

[bharath supra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bharath supra:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shark.ashwa:


Nope, I think kirk is right when it comes to bearing sizes chosen by most FSAE teams. I think he was referring to the usual steel sintered bearings requiring lubrication.... BTW, if you don't mind me asking......how did you determine a bearing with a load rating of 18kN to be right?? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Oh and how did you come to know that PTFE lined bearings are not available in the market??

Sharath </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hi sharath,
yes i know that kirk is right when it comes to bearing sizes. but i am sure he is referring to maintenance free bearings(ptfe, sintered bronze).
remember that only steel on steel bearings needs lubrication and steel sintered bearings don't.
steel on steel bearings are very good in static loading and poor in dynamic loading and maintenance free bearings are good in dynamic loading as well(the ratio of dynamic to static load rating of maintenance free bearing is high). it is wise to use a maintenance free bearing for A-arms.
http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/...=1&lang=en&newlink=3 (http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?maincatalogue=1&lang=en&newlink=3)
http://www.astbearings.com/sph...-plain-bearings.html (http://www.astbearings.com/spherical-plain-bearings.html)
http://www.bsahome.org/tools/E...l_Plain_Bearings.pdf (http://www.bsahome.org/tools/ESC%20Reports/Spherical_Plain_Bearings.pdf)

regarding the selection of bearing with 18KN, there are only 3 bearings available in SKF suitable for the application(geh 10c, geh12c, ge 12 txgr). and i suggested him to go through the geh 12c bearing.

and yes i feel that 12c bearing is too much for FSAE cars. but the reason which i suggested him that bearing is we are participating in SUPRA SAE( indian FSAE version) and our car weights &gt; 420 kg because of the heavy Marathi 800 engine supplied to us.we are using the 12c bearing and i thought mangla team might be participating in SUPRA SAE.
now i understood that its wrong to make suggestions based on assumptions.


regarding availability of ptfe bearing there is no bearing suitable for our application in SKF(minimum size is 12mm).

and thanks for throwing some light on INA-FAG bearings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[shark.ashwa]

Hey,

I see that you have fixed yourself to the SKF bearings! Are they sponsoring bearings for your team? If not there are a lot of companies selling competitive if not better stuff out there......you should probably look into IKO as well.
We use steel on steel bearings that require lubrication...mostly the 6s...but our car weighs nearly 180 kgs less!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Still, I think you could go for size 8 and call it a day.....8 kN is a lot if you think about it!

Sharath

[bharath supra]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shark.ashwa:
Hey,

I see that you have fixed yourself to the SKF bearings! Are they sponsoring bearings for your team? If not there are a lot of companies selling competitive if not better stuff out there......you should probably look into IKO as well.
We use steel on steel bearings that require lubrication...mostly the 6s...but our car weighs nearly 180 kgs less!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Still, I think you could go for size 8 and call it a day.....8 kN is a lot if you think about it!

Sharath </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


yes we are thinking of getting sponsorship from SKF. its primarily based in pune. and my college is in pune.