Ohlins ST44 v. Cane Creek Double Barrel

[James Montupet]

Oh, it's on...

We run the ST44 damper. We like it. Custom valved by Ohlins, adjustability is extremely useful in tuning, great build quality.

Cons? It's heavy and expensive.

So, I've been looking at the Cane Creek double barrel. 4 way adjustable (sweet...), a bunch lighter and a smidge cheaper.

What I've heard thrown around is that the ST44 is better in the respect that it's less displacement sensitive than any mountain bike shock. In the words of the Ohlins distributor, it's better suited for "short stroke high frequency" response that cars like ours see, and a mountain bike doesn't.

So, is this BS just told to us so we'd buy their mucho expensive shocks? And how would displacement sensitivity, for the same Force v. Velocity curves, hurt us? Wouldn't it just be like having a slightly higher than initially calculated spring rate? Or is it nonlinear?

Question two:
Any teams running Cane Creek dampers be willing to compare shock dyno data, especially with respect to high frequency response? Colorado has been pretty vocal about how cool the Cane Creek's are and the shock dyno work they've done on 'em, so I'm looking at them, but anyone else up for it?

James Montupet
Duke University Motorsports
Chief Engineer

[James Montupet]

Oh, it's on...

We run the ST44 damper. We like it. Custom valved by Ohlins, adjustability is extremely useful in tuning, great build quality.

Cons? It's heavy and expensive.

So, I've been looking at the Cane Creek double barrel. 4 way adjustable (sweet...), a bunch lighter and a smidge cheaper.

What I've heard thrown around is that the ST44 is better in the respect that it's less displacement sensitive than any mountain bike shock. In the words of the Ohlins distributor, it's better suited for "short stroke high frequency" response that cars like ours see, and a mountain bike doesn't.

So, is this BS just told to us so we'd buy their mucho expensive shocks? And how would displacement sensitivity, for the same Force v. Velocity curves, hurt us? Wouldn't it just be like having a slightly higher than initially calculated spring rate? Or is it nonlinear?

Question two:
Any teams running Cane Creek dampers be willing to compare shock dyno data, especially with respect to high frequency response? Colorado has been pretty vocal about how cool the Cane Creek's are and the shock dyno work they've done on 'em, so I'm looking at them, but anyone else up for it?

James Montupet
Duke University Motorsports
Chief Engineer

[Jersey Tom]

Just to clarify.. I'll put out there that I LOVE these dampers compared to every other MTB damper on the market. The adjustability and quality you get for the price is wicked.

The crazies/farm boys (ha!) at Colorado State have the rigged up damper dyno. We were planning on doing some collaborative damper tuning up there with them, but (A) ran out of time and (B) the stock rates with our MR's happened to work out quite well.

What exactly do they mean by the ST44 being less displacement sensitive?

If its friction in the seals, etc, you can get around that by running MR's closer to 1:1.

The nice thing is running the DB1's with a MR like ours of 1.7 inches wheel to 1" damper, the stock damping rates work very well and you dont have to pull the 4-ways apart and re-valve and rebleed them.

[James Montupet]

Tom-

Here is a post by Ohlins rep on forums, pretty much exactly what they told our team. We were not aware at the time when we switched to Ohlins ('05), so we didn't really consider 'em...

"The Cane Creek damper shares a tiny bit of technology with the TT44's, not much but a bit. They don't have anything in common with the TTX's other than the use of two tubes. The Double Barrel was designed by one of our Swedish engineers who happens to be a bike freak and is probably the best mountain bike damper made thus far. They are still very much a displacement sensitive damper designed for long stroke low frequency use and would provide very little hi-frequency short stroke control, like a race car needs. Like most mountain bike dampers the biggest problems is the slow (relative) damping force build-up and the excess amount of inherent hysteresis in the system. On another note I've finally been talked into doing some real SAE papers on dampers as there are very few correct ones floating about and many with bad information. So hopefully these will help FSAE teams select qualities that are important in a damper and selecting proper damping curves for their cars."

So, questions I want to answer (with DATA... mmm data) are how slow the damping force build up and how much "excess hysteresis" there is, relative to ST44, and if there could be a compensation with springs regarding this displacement sensitivity.

Time to sleep so I can make jet engines work in the mornin'. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

James Montupet
Chief Engineer
Duke University Motorsports