Machining Training

[Faterooski]

Just wondering how everyone on other teams train new members in the machine shop. Do you all have a "basic machine shop 101" class at your schools, or do you just teach the young'ens as they come up through the program or what? For our last car, I was basically one of two people who could make anything much more advanced than a simple spacer or tie-rod (By the way I hate anyone from a team where you have 30 people that you can hand a drawing to and have a part in your hand the next day....you dont know how good you have it). We have a basic machine shop class that a lot of freshman ME's take, but that teaches just the VERY basics. I learned from that class, from the other guy that knows a little bit, and then from working full-time in an actual machine shop back home last summer. I'm trying to train other members, but most times its twice as fast just to do it yourself than to guide someone else through the process.

[Faterooski]

Just wondering how everyone on other teams train new members in the machine shop. Do you all have a "basic machine shop 101" class at your schools, or do you just teach the young'ens as they come up through the program or what? For our last car, I was basically one of two people who could make anything much more advanced than a simple spacer or tie-rod (By the way I hate anyone from a team where you have 30 people that you can hand a drawing to and have a part in your hand the next day....you dont know how good you have it). We have a basic machine shop class that a lot of freshman ME's take, but that teaches just the VERY basics. I learned from that class, from the other guy that knows a little bit, and then from working full-time in an actual machine shop back home last summer. I'm trying to train other members, but most times its twice as fast just to do it yourself than to guide someone else through the process.

[GTmule]

We've got basically two competent machinists, one other who can get by and one welder (period). One of the goals this year is to get the new guys up to speed on some of that stuff. I think as SOON as we have a) money and b) the first few basic parts designed, it's time for class.

The plan is to have my self or the other good machinbist basically go through the procedure of making the part, while everyone watches, then let them try it, one at a time. Of course, we'll have to teach them to read mics and calipers in the meantime........

Someone asks "how thick should the sheet I'm using be?" and I say "I dunno 55 or 63 will be fine" they have NO CLUE........

Of course some of 'em were asking me what the clutch did the other day......

-Chuck

[Faterooski]

I feel ya. We actually had a guy doing an independent study on our drivetrain. Talk about useless. The best was when he was looking over the car, pointed at the starter, and said "so....is this the differential or what?" I kid you not. Not exactly the kind of guy you want building something thats propelling you 60-70 mph. I understand just plain old not having experience, but there is a limit to understanding, and that was way past it. Yeah, the mic reading lesson is always fun.

[Jersey Tom]

There is a shop safety class which gets kids accustomed to the machine tools in our main student shop. But its VERY introductory. Like an hour, that covers everything in the shop. Basic stuff not to do so you don't kill yourself.

From there, the shop supervisor in that shop works with kids 1-on-1 (more or less) on individual projects. Except he gets swamped with like 100+ freshman engineers in their Freshman Projects class all trying to make stuff.

I've seen so much insanity in there. Kids turning down .500" Aluminum ODs at 400rpm and wondering why the finish is poor...kids trying to mill brass with the spindle running backwards... CNC programs for a 1" 2fl EM at 4000rpm and 400ipm...

So that leaves me. I have 24 hour access to a full machine shop, which hasn't been abused by students. But I reserve that for emergency use for the FSAE team.

Ton of underclassmen that want to learn machining, I gotta figure out how the hell to take care of that. Lot of them want to just learn CNC. Like hell they're just gonna jump into that. Better be able to tell me off hand how many flutes, what speed and feed and DOC to be taking with a .500" M42 cutter through mild steel, or aluminum..dry and flooded.

Fortunately there's 2-3 people I think who have enough background and are bright enough to pick up CNC, so I don't have to do every damn part.

[Faterooski]

Hey, at least you have a CNC machine! We just got a converted Bridgeport-style conversational machine last fall, and I'm the only one that knows anything at all on it, and that's only because I worked for the ME machine shop last semester. Hopefully we'll get more access to it and get to do some parts on it for our next car, whenever that might be.

[kozak]

At dayton all engineers have to go through a machining class. but different engineers go through the class at different times deff not when they are freshmen. so every year mejbe the second or third week of school we bring all our freshmen and show them the basics on welding and machining. and whenever we are making something we make sure to have them watching and help out.

[Jersey Tom]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Faterooski:
Hey, at least you have a CNC machine! We just got a converted Bridgeport-style conversational machine last fall, and I'm the only one that knows anything at all on it, and that's only because I worked for the ME machine shop last semester. Hopefully we'll get more access to it and get to do some parts on it for our next car, whenever that might be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's that, an EZ-Trak? 2axis? They aren't bad machines. That's what I had to start off on and run for a couple months before being let on the Fadal.

256 line max kills you though.

[Boston]

Not to get off topic, but what machines do you guys have access to?

At our shop, we have:
3 mills
2 laths
bandsaw, dropsaw, grinders, press, belt sander, air tools, plasma cutter, TIG welder, and MIG welder.

We have CNCs on campus, but its difficult to get access to them.

Since we have lathes and mills at our shop, most of our team is at least somewhat competent at machining.

[Jersey Tom]

Since you asked...

The actual FSAE area has assorted hand tools..
(1) Rickity ass drill press
(1) Grizzly knee mill
(1) Huge freaking press
TIG, MIG, oxy welding

There are a few faculty-work-only shops that I havent been to much, but as far as student shops go.. 9am-5pm M-F

Integrated Teaching and Learning Lab has
(1) Hardinge HLV Toolroom lathe, DRO
(2) Bridgeport knee mills, DRO
(1) Monarch engine lathe
(1) Milltronics CNC lathe
(1) Milltronics 3-axis VMC
(1) Milltronics 4-axis VMC
(1) Vertical bandsaw
(1) Horizontal bandsaw

On the whole I'm not impressed with Milltronics. Really low-power spindles, and only go to 5k RPM.

Physics shop, use is restricted to those who have taken the $200 machining class..
(3) Hardinge HLV toolroom lathes, DRO
(3) Victor toolroom lathes, DRO
(1) LeBlond (i think) engine lathe
(5) Bridgeport knee mills, DRO
(1) Bridgeport knee mill, 2-axis NC
(1) Vertical bandsaw
TIG, MIG, Oxy welding

Chemical Engineering shop, not sure if its student or not, but their machinist is cool with me and I'm going to try to get some grinding done there. Only been in there a couple times
(1) Surface grinder
(1) Toolroom lathe
(1) Engine lathe
(1) Bridgeport knee mill
(1) Haas toolroom 3-axis CNC
(1) Vertical bandsaw
TIG welding

Aerospace Engineering shop (half student, half faculty work)
(2) Bridgeport 3-axis CNC knee mills
(2) Trump 3-axis CNC mills. Halfway between a VMC and a knee mill
(1) Hardinge HLV, DRO
(1) Large engine lathe
(1) Vertical bandsaw
(1) Horizontal bandsaw
(1) Optical comparitor
(1) CNC lathe [coming soon]
Sheet metal stuff

Mechanical engineering shop
(1) Hurco VM1 3axis VMC [8k rpm, 15hp, 16tool dual-arm atc]
(1) 3-axis bridgeport CNC knee mill [out of comission atm]
(1) Bridgeport knee mill, just about falling apart
(2) Old, ghetto toolroom lathes, DRO
(1) Vertical bandsaw

And then saving the best for last, is the Bioserve Space Technologies shop. Which is on campus, non-student, but I'm employed there and have 24/7 access to...
(1) Fadal 3016L 4-axis VMC [7.5k rpm, 15hp, 21tool carousel atc]
(1) Bridgeport 2-axis CNC knee mill
(1) Lagun Republic knee mill, DRO
(2) Hardinge HLVs, DRO
(1) WW2-era tool and cutter grinder
(1) Grob vertical bandsaw
Sheet metal stuff, sandblasting cabinet

I love the stuff we got in the Bioserve shop. None of it has been touched by students. The old-timer machinist and I keep everything trammed in dead nuts, all the tools are razor sharp, and the place is very clean.

[Faterooski]

Jersey Tom: It's technically 3-axis I believe, but you can't move in the z-axis while moving in x or y. I still call that a 3, but I think some call that a 2-axis. I believe the brand name of the mill is a Kent, and then I'm not sure on the brand of the CNC conversion kit that came with it. It was purchased as one machine, but it's a different brand of electronics/steppers. It's conversational programming (easier for beginners than G-code), and I haven't done anything NEAR advanced enough to use up 256 lines. The only parts I've made on it so far have been simple plates with circular pockets, some various shaped pockets in lexan, and then for the car I did the first step of machining our spare set of wheel centers. Definately a time saver on things like that, rather than having to set up a rotary table.

[kozak]

dude thats sick they are seriously considering ripping down our lab with no thought as to where we will go. kind of like the old screw you.

[Jersey Tom]

Faterooski - word of advice with a mill like that, DONT let your design team use ANY splines (as in b-splines..curved lines. Not the torque-transmitting feature). A lot of times you can replace a spline with 2-3 arcs.

2-3 arcs = 2-3 lines of code.

Each spline needs to be linearly interpretted, unless your machine has spline interpolation (and I doubt any student machine does). So 1 spline can be on the order of 1000 lines.

Kozak - that sucks. Write your advisors, write your dean, write your school president. Let em know whats up.

[kozak]

i don't think it is going to happen tomorrow but still pisses me off that they won;t even help us now they are taking away our facilities.