Question for B Lewis.....

[Agent4573]

Hey, I have a question about the pickup signal for the PE-ECU1. We run a 2001 R6 and we made our own pickup wheel for it this year. We thought that making it a little larger would be better because last year we were only getting about 1.8 volts peak to peak dc signal from our pickup wheel. This year when we tested we were getting upwards of 20 volts peak to peak dc, in what looked like a messed up square wave, and the engine wouldn't run. We lathed the wheel down a bit and are now getting about 5 volts, almost perfect sine wave, so I was just wondering what signal strength/type is the ECU designed to look for at idle? Also, if we max out the signal strength and end up producing a square wave with the signal at higher rpm's, is the ECU designed to handle that or will we have to make sure its a perfect sine wave to be able to run correctly?

[Agent4573]

Hey, I have a question about the pickup signal for the PE-ECU1. We run a 2001 R6 and we made our own pickup wheel for it this year. We thought that making it a little larger would be better because last year we were only getting about 1.8 volts peak to peak dc signal from our pickup wheel. This year when we tested we were getting upwards of 20 volts peak to peak dc, in what looked like a messed up square wave, and the engine wouldn't run. We lathed the wheel down a bit and are now getting about 5 volts, almost perfect sine wave, so I was just wondering what signal strength/type is the ECU designed to look for at idle? Also, if we max out the signal strength and end up producing a square wave with the signal at higher rpm's, is the ECU designed to handle that or will we have to make sure its a perfect sine wave to be able to run correctly?

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Hello,

That information is on page 18 of the current manual. The ECU is designed to have a minimum of +/-0.8 volts during cranking and a maximum of +/-20 volts at max speed. Any more voltage than this for extended periods of time and you run a small risk of damaging one of the conditioning components.

The signal does not need to be a perfect sin wave, however, it must only have one clean negative going zero crossing per tooth. Just out of curiosity, why did you guys make your own wheel? The one that we provide is usually sized just right.

Let me know if you need anything else. Good Luck!!! We'll see you in Pontiac.

[Agent4573]

We made our own wheel for two reasons. First, the one supplied is slightly smaller than the stock yamaha wheel, giving a weaker signal. Our engine is breaking up at higher RPM and we thought that the pickup signal could be the culprit.

Second, the stock yamaha r6 engine calls for 55 degrees of timing at 6000 rpm. The PE-ECU can only add 50 degrees of timing. We physically advanced our wheel 15 degrees to get the timing in the correct range for the engine.

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

The smaller wheel does not effect the signal at high RPM since at those speeds there are high voltage levels.

Our next ECU will compensate for the lack of adjustable timing. In addition, we are hoping to use all of the stock sensors and trigger wheels for the most popular motorcycle engines so you won't need to fool around with new wheels.

[Draksia]

Any chance the next version will have full sequential support as well off set ignition timing.

We have old honda vfr400 that needs offset ignition timing and nothing short of a motec seems to support it.

[Chris Boyden]

Brian,

Do you guys use the National Semiconductor VR sensor ignition interface?

Chris

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Chris....Yes, we use the National part for the VR conditioning.

Draksia.....Yes, the new system is full sequential and will have a large range of timing values that will have the ability to be offset by a certain number of degrees from a specific pulse (and lots of other cool stuff too http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

If anyone has suggestions for our new ECU as far as features, please feel free to suggest away.

[James Waltman]

Brian,
A long time ago you mentioned some compatibility with Palm Pilots/PDAs. (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/2596061342/r/2596061342#2596061342) Any word on that?

[osubeaver]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If anyone has suggestions for our new ECU as far as features, please feel free to suggest away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can make it have more/adjustable RPM tuning points and have it do sequential injection and can sell it for less than the E11v2, I'm game for one http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

[Ryan McCauley]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by osubeaver:
If you can make it have more/adjustable RPM tuning points </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That would also be my suggestion. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

We are planning on the new version having larger tables, 25 RPM positions and 26 load positions in "Expert" mode.

osubeaver - What does am E11v2 go for and what does it come with for FSAE?

[BeaverGuy]

The Haltech E11v2 with an unterminated harness sells for ~$1,8000US this also includes the temp sensors and TPS. We got ours from a local dealer for $1,500. It supports full sequential and direct fire for up to 6 cylinders along with various other combinations using those 12 outputs. There are 7 analog and 4 digital inputs for data logging. It uses 32 RPM and 32 Load points with the RPM points being completly user defineable. It will also accept almost any type of trigger input.
More specific information can be found here. Haltech E11 (http://www.haltech.com/e11v2.htm)
The E8 which is very similar to the E11 but with fewer drivers and inputs would probably be a better match for most FSAE teams.
It supports up to 4 cylinders in full sequential and direct fire. Its retail price is $1,500US but it seems to actually be selling for $1,200US.
E8 (http://www.haltech.com/e8.htm)

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Hi BeaverGuy,

Do you need external ignitors with the E11/E8? If so, how much does that add to the cost?

I think that we will definately be below those prices including built in ignitors and support for many stock sensors.

[James Waltman]

Brian,
The PDA compatibility got me thinking. How about adding a USB output to the ECU. Not a huge deal but several of our computers only have USB plugs and we have had to buy the converter cable.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> From ubs.org:
Adding an old-fashioned peripheral device can be a scary proposition, requiring a ton of computer savvy and a certain amount of luck!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm partial to this style because I already have about a dozen of these cables.
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/HostedPics/Junk/usb_mini.jpg

[BeaverGuy]

Yes the E8 and E11 require external ignitors. I believe that retail is $115 and are 1,2, or 3 channel.

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

James.... We are looking into direct USB compatibility. As for the PDA, it is something on our long term horizon, but not someting we are currently pursuing.

[Chris Boyden]

Brian,

How about On board data logging with a giant 1 Gig flash option or a cheaper 256MB flash.

[Agent4573]

This just came to mind, can you make your ignition cut option interrupt based instead of polling? We had to go to an external relay for ignition kill this year because we couldn't get repeatable time delays with the ECU ignition kill.

[IsheeM]

Brian,
When do you plan on debuting this new ecu?

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Hi Guys. Thanks for all of the great suggestions. See below for responses.

Chris....
We will have on board data logging for up to 16 channels but it will be limited to 2mb initially. That's enough for over 2 hours of 8 channels at 20 HZ.

Agent4573....
We are looking into interrupt based digital inputs as well.

IsheeM....
We are hoping to have beta versions by the Fall of '05.

[Chris Boyden]

Sounds like you guys are going with a bigger connector. Still sticking with Deutsch?

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Actually it will be the same connector. We are just doing a much better job of using the pins available. Even if we upsized the connector, we would try to stay with Deutsch because they seem to be the best ones around (with the exception of mil spec)

[Jon Prevost]

Brian, a great addition that could be integrated into the ecm is a 3 axiz accelerometer IC from Analog Devices. They're not expensive, require minimal conditioning and would provide FSAE teams (and anybody for that matter) a way to measure how much horsepower they're putting down. It's a build in performance meter for less than a g-tech. I've build a 2-axis that does -2/+2 g's sampled at 17Hz. The circuit board when build by this non-EE ended up fitting into an RC car reciever case (2"x1.5"x1") http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Another useful easy to implement IC would be an thermocouple conditional amp. Again, AD has these for CHEAP and require just a couple resistors for a linear 0-5v signal and has built on cold juntion compensation!
Those 2 things wouldn't take much time to implement and it would be a huge offering. Keep up the excellent work and good luck on the new stuff.