Help with the CBR600 RR

[aniLD]

Hey people, we are using a CBR600 RR for this years comp (2003 model) and would like it if some of the other teams who also use it to share some info with us if possible. It's a big change from a custom twin cylinder turbo that was on the 04 car and we have a steep learning curve ahead of us.

Some of the things we are most interested in are:
- Engine models (SolidWorks preferred)
- Water and oil pump flow rates (even F4 rates as reference)
- Injector flow rates and using the factory dual stage setup
- Using the factory fuel pump/regulator with no return lines
- Work on cancelling the two pollution vales on the head
- Experience with using MoTeC (M4 Pro) or other management systems on the factory sensors
- Tips on extracting the most out of the unit
- Any reliability issues
- General Do's and Do Not's

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

Engine Team
MUR Motorsports
Melbourne University

[aniLD]

Hey people, we are using a CBR600 RR for this years comp (2003 model) and would like it if some of the other teams who also use it to share some info with us if possible. It's a big change from a custom twin cylinder turbo that was on the 04 car and we have a steep learning curve ahead of us.

Some of the things we are most interested in are:
- Engine models (SolidWorks preferred)
- Water and oil pump flow rates (even F4 rates as reference)
- Injector flow rates and using the factory dual stage setup
- Using the factory fuel pump/regulator with no return lines
- Work on cancelling the two pollution vales on the head
- Experience with using MoTeC (M4 Pro) or other management systems on the factory sensors
- Tips on extracting the most out of the unit
- Any reliability issues
- General Do's and Do Not's

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

Engine Team
MUR Motorsports
Melbourne University

[Jarrod]

i would strongly suuggest measring your own engine, as we have a few models floating around of our F3 engines, none of them are the same, so last year we got a flat plate, a couple of big engineers squares and a height gauge, put the engine next to the computer, and read out x,y,z of key points, straight into the CAD model. That way you know which points were hard to measure and may be a little sketchy, and will need to be checked before making too many parts. Once you have used the model once, you will know which points weren't quite right, tune the model a little bit, and you have an accurate model. There are some models on the internet that are downright terrible. Injector flow rates can be measured, have a chat with MoTec, the M400 can run dual stage injection, pretty sure the earlier models will too. Not sure what type of sensors the RR uses, but the MoTec is very flexible, the documetation will tell you everything you need. Setting the CRIP is the trickiest bit, search these forums and there is a discussion on it. I'm not familiar with the flow rates or the pollution valves, and as far as extracting the most out of it, get it on the dyno and run it, mess with exhausts and intakes, see how it responds. Craig has my number if you want a hand with the MoTec.

[Charlie]

Motec M400 cannot run staged injection, only M800 or M880. Of course perhaps you could make it control staged injection with some kind of add-on electronics or manipulated outputs but it doesn't have the drivers.

[Jarrod]

right you are charlie, you need the extra injector drivers. Back to my suspension!

[aniLD]

Thanks Jarrod, Craig has already started to model the engine and hes doing a good job, just thought we may save him some time.

The engine has magnetic sensors for both ref and sync, were hopeing to get these working with the MoTeC.

We are currently trying to size up some scav pumps for a dry sump system. Hence we are trying to scope out the flow rates for the pressure pump and the water pump we are probably going to rplace with an electric unit.

[df_fsmb]

As I am reading this stuff on ECU's I was wondering why no one uses HRC ECU for Hondas.

We are seriously looking at it and were even adviced to take it by some professionals but now that no one of you uses it, I am a bit scared...

Is there any particular reason why not to use the HRC ECU?

[John T.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by df_fsmb:
As I am reading this stuff on ECU's I was wondering why no one uses HRC ECU for Hondas.

We are seriously looking at it and were even adviced to take it by some professionals but now that no one of you uses it, I am a bit scared...

Is there any particular reason why not to use the HRC ECU? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We used HRC engine management for are 2010 car at Formula Student this year. We used a MoTec M4 last year and it was good, but we kind of found it to be a bit overkill for the Job in hand. For the 2010 car we bought a full HRC 2006 CBR engine, ECU and wiring loom from an Isle of Man TT Race bike (the bike was totalled in the 2009 TT). The full engine and system set us back £9000 but I can speak from experience it was well worth it. With the right guy, the ECU can be fully mapped for FSAE requirements and can easily overcome the 20mm restrictor I do highly recommend purchasing a CBR clock pod, as it is an essential component to map the engine. The HRC engines are so much more robust than the regular CBR’s too.

[ibanezplayer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John T.:
[QUOTE The full engine and system set us back £9000 but I can speak from experience it was well worth it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At the risk of derailing this thread. HOLY S#!^. ~14000 USD for one engine + ECU?

[RenM]

spending such a huge amount of money only for the engine does not seem to be worth it. We are using many HRC parts like the lightweight alternator, A Grade con rods and pistons. But we got them for free and they dont make a difference that is worth this amount of money.
Lightweight alternators can be bought elsewhere and the normal CBR engine is more robust then needed for our application.

[RollingCamel]

@ John T.

Sorry for being off topic but, may you please scale your avatar down and reupload it? It loads in its original size which is huge then resizes. Takes time to load the page.