Whats the best wheel out there?

[B_Budahn]

Hi, I'm a freshman at Milwaukee School of Engineering and I got the job a wheel shopping. We're looking to buy 13x8 wheels. It'd be great if we could machine our own centers, but we don't have equipment to do that.

What wheels are best for the F-SAE cars and why?

On one of our older cars we have Jongbloed wheels. Those have work well, but its time for new wheels this year. The Jongbloeds look really good and they perform great. I'm just looking to see what else is out there.

I've already done some research on Keizer wheels. They have had a few problems in the past, but since Wade's taken over i haven't been able to find any complaints. Has anyone bought from them in the last two years, and has something really good or bad to say about them?

I've also heard that BBS makes a F-SAE wheel and sells it at a very low cost. Does anyone have a contact person i could get in touch with?

Also do some of you have pics of wheels you raced with in the past? Or just pics of your cars? I'd love to see them. Formula is something that i'm really interested in and i can't get enough of it.


Thanks, Bryan Budahn

[B_Budahn]

Hi, I'm a freshman at Milwaukee School of Engineering and I got the job a wheel shopping. We're looking to buy 13x8 wheels. It'd be great if we could machine our own centers, but we don't have equipment to do that.

What wheels are best for the F-SAE cars and why?

On one of our older cars we have Jongbloed wheels. Those have work well, but its time for new wheels this year. The Jongbloeds look really good and they perform great. I'm just looking to see what else is out there.

I've already done some research on Keizer wheels. They have had a few problems in the past, but since Wade's taken over i haven't been able to find any complaints. Has anyone bought from them in the last two years, and has something really good or bad to say about them?

I've also heard that BBS makes a F-SAE wheel and sells it at a very low cost. Does anyone have a contact person i could get in touch with?

Also do some of you have pics of wheels you raced with in the past? Or just pics of your cars? I'd love to see them. Formula is something that i'm really interested in and i can't get enough of it.


Thanks, Bryan Budahn

[Jersey Tom]

Go do up the research. Get the CAD files. Check out the weight. Check out the polar moment of inertia. Check out the price. Then make a judgement call.

Another name you may want to look into is Kodiak. Kodiaks look nice.

[B_Budahn]

Where would i find the CAD files? Also why do i need them? What do they show me?
Do you know if Kodiak offers discounts for F-SAE? Cause they are kind of pricey.

Bryan

[Nihal]

They will tell you packaging and clearances, Strength (if you can import them into an FEA program), mass, and moments of inertia. This is assuming it is a 3d CAD drawing.

[GTmule]

Kodiak's not giving a FSAE discountanymore. Too many FSAE teams screwed him, it sounds like (not paying on time, sending (custom) wheels back because they weren't needed, getting mad when somehting was 2 thou out of tolerance....etc).

We'd bought a set of wheels a while back, for like 600 bucks, I think, REALLY nice looking, pretty light for 3 piece.

Too bad certain people had to screw up that deal. (He gave no names or schools, so don't act like he's bad mouthing people, he seems like a really good guy, I wish we could afford to buy his very nice product)

-Chuck

[Jersey Tom]

Hmm. Glad we still have a set of Kodiaks then. Maybe even two.

[Ben Beacock]

I've had issues with Kodiak twice and wouldn't go back. For our first car in 2003 we ordered wheels 2 months before competition. After many delays (and many phone calls to extract information) we got to the point that they were going to ship us the wheels to michigan. Yeah right. So we cancelled the order and scrambled to find some panasports.
In 2005 I thought I'd give them another try. After a few revisions of the design, we came up with something that would have the offset and caliper clearance we need. The final product wasn't even close to clearing the caliper and the wheel hub hole was 67.1mm vs 57.1mm (a standard size) so we ran with the wheels spaced out 12mm on centering rings I machined. I was willing to do some CAD work beforehand to verify the fit but he said that was 'his' department and they did the wheel design.
The other problem is that when your order goes on the 'production floor', the order sheet goes with it, so they have no idea what the status is or how long its going to take.
Anyways, the wheels are really nice looking, straight, and true so I didn't send them back.

These are just my experiences. Their product is good, but perhaps they need more administrative staff when they get busy.

[Evan]

Oh dear, Kodiak wheels...

Last year we had the budget to get two new sets and the offset was much different than our previous Keizer rims. Looked around, and was glad to find a Canadian company that looked like they had their act togethor. Talked to the guy (daryl) on the phone and negotiated two sets of their forged 13" FX rim, black anodized centers. Filled out the dimension form, had nightmares about the wheels not fitting, double checked all dimensions both in CAD and physically, sent the form in. They said the wheels would be 6 - 8 weeks. This was at the end of January I believe. Got nervous when I didn't hear anything around the date of delivery, although the car wasn't totally finished so I gave them some leeway. Finally, I called and they told me they hadn't even started them yet, and a machine had been broken for close to a month. Well, that's when the fun began. Long story short, I had to threaten to jump off a bridge (and I really was ready to) if we didn't get our wheels in time to test. Had to machine spacers for the Keizer's to fit for our first two weeks of testing, and when the Kodiak's did arrive, they didn't fit the front. Seems his tolerances don't allow for the head of the bolts on the rims, and they collided with the outside of the caliper. So we had to add a spacer...
anyway, the rims looked great (although due to the time issue didn't get anodized) and they are certainly high quality, but they are overbuilt stock from him, with the rim halves being of too thich a gauge for our application, and the wheel center being on the beefy side. If I were doing it again, I think I would try to order some of his blank forgings, and see if he could do rim halves for me out of something thinner, and then machine the centers myself. Great guy, but they take too much business for the size of their shop, and he doesn't seem to see the logic in expanding to meet the demand.

-Evan Martin
Ryerson FSAE Alumni

[B_Budahn]

Thanks for all the info. Keep it coming.

Bryan

[Schulberg J]

We have been happy with Real Racing Wheels.

[B_Budahn]

I looked at Real Racing Wheels and they are a little too heavy. I'm sure they reliable and dependable, but they're heavy. We're looking for something around 7-8 lbs.

Thanks for the tip tho, Bryan

[Erich Ohlde]

I'm a pretty big fan of UTA's wheels. they weigh in at a whoping 3.5lbs http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[PedalOnTheRight]

We used Kaiser wheels last year with horrid results. First of all, even though a two piece aluminum set-up will get you a light wheel, It's kind of a pain in the ass to deal with, unless you love silicone (you'll also have to make your own centers which can be good and bad). For me, I will be looking heavily into once piece wheels, and hopefully can discover a light one low rolling inertia. Make good friends with a well known wheel place that specializes in custom applications, and have them help you order (they usually get insider prices on insider stock). Gluck

[B_Budahn]

Do you have UTA's website or other contact info? Also how do they compare price-wise?

[Jersey Tom]

UTA is a school... with a very good SAE program.

[B_Budahn]

so i take it they made their owm wheels then?

[Erich Ohlde]

Yeah, they make there own wheels. But they don't sell them, too much liability issues. Though you should definately check them out this year at competition they are sweet!

[Travis Garrison]

3.5 lbs? For just the shell? or the shell and center?

[Erich Ohlde]

shell and center. they are sweet. and since they are carbon fiber you don't bend wheels.. they either deform plasticly or explode in a shower of cancer causing carbon fiber shards! although I don't think UTA has ever had a wheel explode but most teams don't go around hitting huge rocks/curbs with deflated tires.

[Travis Garrison]

Anyone from UTA care to comment? 3.5 lbs impressive.

[Timmaayy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/Flexicoker/Formula%20SAE/IMG_4997.jpg

I hope that pic shows up. That is a wheel from the 04 car. I need to get a pic of the ones on the 05 car, they look much nicer.

For many years up until 2003 UTA used a 13x6 inch 7.6 lb wheel made my Monocoque. We were happy with this wheel, but it seems not enough people agreed since they went out of business. This forced us to look at other options. We looked at Keizer and many others, but we did not feel they met what we wanted. We decided to re-visit the carbon wheel that we showed off in 93 and 94 I believe. The wheel went through a complete re-design to make many design and appearance changes. Two years of my life designing, building molds, laying up wheels, the new version made it on the 2004 car. Of course a few of those wheels unintentionally became display models. UTA's 13x6 carbon fiber wheel is a two piece wheel. Outer shell is carbon and weighs 2 lbs. The center is aluminum and weighs 1.75 lbs including all the bolts, washers and nuts. The center piece is made by a CNC mill. The outer carbon shell is made with a 2 piece aluminum and a 2 piece tooling carbon mold. We saved half the weight over the aluminum ones we used previously. They tend to seal better than the aluminum. If that is not enough, they even look cool. Some other schools have made comments that they have lighter wheels since they us 10 inch wheels and I have even heard of other carbon fiber ones in England I believe that were said to be a little lighter. UTA has our reasons for using larger wheels. Also we tend to pull more lateral g's than some others and I like having a safety factor too.

My advice to the original person that posted is to buy wheels this year. Once you learn the best size, geometry, stiffness, clearances and so on that you need then you can jump into the investment of designing your own wheels. It is not easy selecting the correct ones to buy either. Most wheel companies probably will not give you wheel drawings. It is probably best for you to tell them the specifications you need and let them help you. Tell them the lug pattern you use, the wheel backspacing you want, the upright and front brake clearance dimensions you need, and the weight or loading that you expect the wheel to handle. Once you narrow it down to a few choices you should be able to talk them into sending you a wheel to borrow to see if that is what you really want. It is much cheaper to just pay for shipping than to buy wheels you may not use. If you have other questions I will do my best to answer them and help guide you.