Who will make the first proper turbo system? Anyone at SEMA?

[FFgeoff]

After seeing most of the turbo setups from many FSAE teams it is obvious that no one has taken the turbocharging aspect seriously. While turbocharging is very difficult to do right, its not so difficult that it cant be figured out.

I had about an hour long discussion with a garrett engineer this weekend about it and I will be setting up the turbo syhstem to spend most of the time at or above choke flow, similar to a rally car, not a standard drag ideal. Anyone else care to get involved with this?

we are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams
--willy wonka

[FFgeoff]

After seeing most of the turbo setups from many FSAE teams it is obvious that no one has taken the turbocharging aspect seriously. While turbocharging is very difficult to do right, its not so difficult that it cant be figured out.

I had about an hour long discussion with a garrett engineer this weekend about it and I will be setting up the turbo syhstem to spend most of the time at or above choke flow, similar to a rally car, not a standard drag ideal. Anyone else care to get involved with this?

we are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams
--willy wonka

[Charlie]

There is a school in NY that has dabbled in turbos, but you're right, nobody has gotten it right yet /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE 1999-present

[FFgeoff]

Turbocharging honda engines is my life.

some of my stuff can be seen at

www.full-race.com/moderngarage (http://www.full-race.com/moderngarage)

or

www.full-race.com/turbokit (http://www.full-race.com/turbokit)

we are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams
--willy wonka

[ericwort]

Sure, I'd like to hear your ideas on how to keep the turbo spooled.

I will say that the one turbo car we still have running here at Illinois has very little turbo lag (turbo is spooled by the time your foot finishes pressing the throttle pedal down) and is pretty easy to drive overall.

[Scott M.]

I agree that no one I have seen has had a "properly" configured turbo system. I put together Penn State's first 3 turbo systems, and none of those were done "right".
Since then I have done some work on my own F2 turbo car, and although it is not finished yet, it is well on it's way...
Just think about it, the most air you will ever get is when the restrictor is choked ALL the time... But you must not over do it! As we all know once it is choked, you aren't going to get any more! I have dyno plots that show 82HP rear wheel @8,500 on M85 (18mm restrictor). OK, no biggie. But the significant gains were made above the choke point... ~4HP more from choke to the limiter. Now you have a package that you can keep choked all the time and is driveable there.

None of this applies to a NA engine because you have no controls/restrictions in the way. And oh yes your choke point is so high nobody cares too much.
Now to do this right, you need to control the correct parameters in the correct way... I am using an AEM ECU and it can do boost feedback to a value that changes with speed and rpm. Just think about what that can do for you. To do it right though a MAF system should be used. Then just do boost feedback on air flow rate!
It also has ANTI LAG... As well as full throttle shift capability. The bottom line is that all these things add up to a very good package. There are some other things that are involved, but I would like to see more discussion.

Anyone interested in an AEM ECU contact me. I am the exclusive FSAE dealer.

Scott
PSU FSAE 94-96
Superior Engine Technology

[FFgeoff]

the key is to run it at choke and take advantage of the shockwave... i learned some amazing things about turbos i couldnt have ever imagined (i have been building turbo cars for 5 years) but runnign the turbo at choke flow and using the wastegate signal on the other side of the compressor does in fact *definately* work.

also were going to use a couple cool tricks like running a blow off valve to the exhaust manifold... some other neat stuff.

please dont respond saying dont run a BOV to the collecotr, or you mean a wastegate right? no i mean running a bov to the collector.

we are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams
--willy wonka

[ericwort]

What exactly are you planning on blowing off?

Since the rules require the throttle body and restrictor to be before the turbo, there is no way that pressurized air can be trapped in the system when the throttle body is snapped shut.

This also creates havoc with the turbo seals, as the compressor side under a vacuum quite often, and many turbo oil seals are designed to run that way. I've heard that many teams have to rebuild their turbos quite often due to this issue.

Or are you intending to run the blow-off valve like a pop-off valve to control boost levels?

Edit: After re-reading your message again, it looks like you want to do the latter. How are you going to vent into the exhaust manifold? The backpressure there is typically higher than any boost pressure you're going to be making.

[Charlie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott M.:
I agree that no one I have seen has had a "properly" configured turbo system<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never gotten a good look at Cornell's setup. But they make the most power nearly every year and obviously have a very well drivable setup. How is this the improper way to do a turbo?

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE 1999-present

[Scott M.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott M.:
I agree that no one I have seen has had a "properly" configured turbo system<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never gotten a good look at Cornell's setup. But they make the most power nearly every year and obviously have a very well drivable setup. How is this the improper way to do a turbo?

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE 1999-present
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have looked at Cornell's car as well as a lot of others (I was a powertrain judge in '99 and I know it hasn't changed much).
I believe the closest anyone has been was Penn State in '97, but it had room for improvement.

Cornell CAN improve, but they probably don't NEED to if they have the highest power every year... I am not talking about peak power here either. Area under the curve is what matters... And that is what an "ideal" turbo setup gives you more of.
I agree that they have a very driveable setup, and we all know this is important. All said there is little to be gained in their case.

Scott
Penn State FSAE 94-96
Superior Engine Technology