Ricardo WAVE

[Charlie]

I just wanted to let everyone know that Ricardo Software, Inc is making available thier WAVE v5.0 engine simulation software absolutely FREE to FSAE teams now. Free technical support, free software, free licenses, no strings attached.

We started using WAVE in 2000, when it cost us $1500 to get a student trained for an educational license. It was worth it then. Now, it's free. Plus, the new v5.0 has some really amazing features, like CAD meshing. Import your intake CAD file to WAVE, and it automatically calculates all the parameters.

WAVE is by far the most in-depth of the engine simulation programs that I've seen . That means it is perhaps a bit more effort to get up & running, but the results are better too.

I'm not affiliated with Ricardo or WAVE, just a user of thier product and I'm passin gthe news along.

http://www.ricardo.com/wave/index.asp

http://www.ricardo.com/downloads/Wave%20article.pdf

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ethanL007]

Thanks for the heads up.

Ethan Lessard
Team Captain
UNH Precision Racing

[Wildcat13]

Do you have any contact info, or a link to request the software?

[Charlie]

Yes, I apologize for not having that. My contact is no longer in the same position, so I don't know if he is the one for new schools to inquire with. I will get some contact info up, but it won't be until Monday.

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Charlie]

Lisa Miles <Lisa.Miles@ricardo.com> is the key licensing contact. She's
in the UK.
Denise Rowe <rs_support@ricardo-us.com> is the contact in the US office.

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ethanL007]

and the email is gone, has anyone aside from auburn used the WAVE package, and did you like it. being a first year team, a free engine simulation package would be fantastic.

Ethan Lessard
Team Captain
UNH Precision Racing

[Charlie]

Wisconsin-Madison, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Purdue, among others have used the WAVE program.

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ethanL007]

sweet, some top tier teams are using it. so i guess it cant be all bad.

plus i already recieved a response.

does any one know if it comes with an engine already modeled in it for an example. i heard virtual four stroke had an f4 in it, and you can pretty much alter the parameters for any of the japanese sport bike engines. does wave have this feature.

Ethan Lessard
Team Captain
UNH Precision Racing

[Charlie]

WAVE comes with many sample models, turbodiesels, F1 V10, CART turbo V8. I believe there is a V-twin, but don't hold me to it. The closest it comes to a FSAE 4 cyl engine is a small displacement automotive 4 cylinder. Our first year, we changed the parameters of the model and saw good relationships. But your data is only as good as the model, so that can only take you so far.

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Matthew]

an alternative is Gamma Technologys GT-suite, it costs $100 for a FSAE team. It includes every thing wave has plus muffler stuff, cooling system stuff, fuel system stuff, and controls stuff.

-Matthew Hetler
hetl0020@umn.edu

[ethanL007]

So the three choices i have been seeing for enigine simulation are;

Ricardo WAVE: free
Virtual 4-Stroke: ~$100
GT-suite: $100

i see features wise they nearly equivalent, what separates them; what is the support like, learning curve, compatibility issues. first year team looking for advice here, thanks for any and all of it.

Ethan Lessard
Team Captain
UNH Precision Racing
www.domesticpc.com/fsae (http://www.domesticpc.com/fsae)

[Charlie]

I don't know anything about GT-suite, can anyone post a link?

I haven't seen anything with close to as many features as WAVE. You can input drivetrain gear and final drive inertias and see power through the wheels, even see transient power curves through gear changes, taking interia into effect. You can link WAVE with Simulink and optimize, but v5.0 also has it's own optimizer built-in. You can even model injector location, timing, pulsewidth, and find a base fuel map. You can model mufflers, and generate .wav files of the engine running, a decibel maps, etc.

However most of this stuff is probably out of FSAE-team league anyway. So its debatable whether these features mean anything. Seems like you'd rather have them than not.

WAVE's CAD mesher is something I haven't seen anything else with, and it saves a lot of time calculating.

I can say I've always received terrific technical support from WAVE, whenever I've needed anything. I would not hesitate to recommend them.

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ethanL007]

thanks charlie, any virtual 4 stroke users out there with opinions. the only thing i have heard about the gt is what mathew posted a few up.

Ethan Lessard
Team Captain
UNH Precision Racing
www.domesticpc.com/fsae (http://www.domesticpc.com/fsae)

[Sam Zimmerman]

We just started to use virtual four-stroke but we do not have enough time to give an opinion. We will share later.

Sam Zimmerman
Vandals Racing (http://www.uidaho.edu/~racing)

[woollymoof]

I haven't used Virtual 4-stroke personally, the reason we got it though was because Ricardo would supply WAVE to us, we weren't a US team you see.

Cheers,

Kirk Veitch
Swinburne University of Technology

[gug]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woollymoof:
I haven't used Virtual 4-stroke personally, the reason we got it though was because Ricardo would supply WAVE to us, we weren't a US team you see.

Cheers,

Kirk Veitch
Swinburne University of Technology<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that supposed to be a "wouldnt"? too bad for us poor ozzies.

- if it isnt coming, you need a bigger tool.

[woollymoof]

yeah sorry

Cheers,

Kirk Veitch
Swinburne University of Technology

[Charlie]

That's odd, because I was told by my Ricardo contact the reason the waived the training requirement (and the $1500 with it) was because of international requests. I know they have granted the software to other countries outside North America. Too bad if they are denying the Aussie teams.

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brent Howard]

I e-mailed her and she is supplying our team with the software. We are in Canada so it's not only US and british teams that they will supply. Might only be North America though, I find that really really odd though.

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[Matthew]

http://www.gtisoft.com/

everything that was mentioned above about WAVE is included in GT-suite, if your interested, and i agree that most everything that is included in all these packages is outside the range of the time and understanding available to most FSAE teams. I've built a sim for our R6 setup in 2003 and will be using it along with the rest of the engine tem to design the intake and exhaust for the next car.

It is very easy to pick up - IMHO. also I guess Gamma tech. is owned by the people who do simulink.

-Matthew Hetler
hetl0020@umn.edu

[Brent Howard]

Maybe she is on holidays...i e-mailed her with no response this week. I'm sure you'll get the software Marc.

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[ethanL007]

marc, i wouldnt worry. we are a first year team and they were very helpful, my advisor has just recieved the MLA. We first contacted Ricardo about 2 weeks ago.

Ethan Lessard
Team Captain
UNH Precision Racing
www.domesticpc.com/fsae (http://www.domesticpc.com/fsae)

[Steve Yao]

There is no question in my mind what software to use for modeling your engine, especially since its free to university teams.

Just about anyone designing engines at any major automaker will know what Ricardo WAVE is, and knowledge of WAVE is a common interview question. This is because WAVE is the industry standard in engine modeling and simulation. Everyone from from Chevy and Ford, to Audi and Volkswagen use it. WAVE will definately serve you well... assuming you can learn to use it. And thats the catch, there is a lot of stuff to know in making use of WAVE. So much so that sending someone for training was a requirement in order to be offered a licence.

-Steve Yao

[ethanL007]

my advisor just recieved the MLA today, Ricardo is very prompt and reliable.

Ethan Lessard
Team Captain
UNH Precision Racing
www.domesticpc.com/fsae (http://www.domesticpc.com/fsae)

[Daves]

We now have Ricardo WAVE installed. However, how do we start using it? Do we make flow charts with it?

http://www.letu.edu/formula

My Formula Photos & Links (http://what3542.5u.com/dave/fsae/formula_photos.html)

[AetherBeta]

Does anybody know if RICARDO still free?
This posts are from '03, Im wondering that, we are a first year team!

[Mikey Antonakakis]

Originally posted by AetherBeta:
Does anybody know if RICARDO still free?
This posts are from '03, Im wondering that, we are a first year team!
Yes, we are in the process of getting the software from them. Find their website (sorry, I'd post the link, but I forget it), call the number on there, tell them you are from an FSAE team and you were looking into their software, heard they help out FSAE teams, etc. I called last week and they were very helpful. They'll send you an e-mail with the info about how to get your copies.