Fuel Pump Selection

[ben_fordham_uoitmotorsports]

Hey everyone, I'm working on the fuel system for our 2010 car, and I need some help on choosing a fuel pump/regulator. I know I want to go for an external pump for accessibility, but as far as specs go, I'm pretty lost.

[ben_fordham_uoitmotorsports]

Hey everyone, I'm working on the fuel system for our 2010 car, and I need some help on choosing a fuel pump/regulator. I know I want to go for an external pump for accessibility, but as far as specs go, I'm pretty lost.

[Adambomb]

Specs shouldn't be much of an issue as long as it can make enough pressure. A compact car fuel pump will generally be overkill in this application, and as long as it is for a car with port-injection you should be fine. Biggest concern is fittings (especially since the vast majority of compact car pumps are made for in-tank applications). It would be possible to adapt an in-tank pump for external use (thinking we might have at some point). Otherwise, I know for a couple years we were using an in-tank pump for a Cavalier (as an in-tank application). Beyond that we've used this Walbro universal external pump, I believe it can be found for under $100 and is extreme overkill. As for regulators, any universal regulator designed for fuel injection should be fine too (such as those found from Jegs or Summit Racing).

[ben_fordham_uoitmotorsports]

Thanks Adam.
I'll look into Walbro and a good quality regulator.

[Grant Mahler]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ben_fordham_uoitmotorsports:
Thanks Adam.
I'll look into Walbro and a good quality regulator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're going to use a Walbro, get a real one, not a knockoff. There are plenty of knockoffs being sold as "genuine" around.

That said, even with a real one, keep your receipt. I've seen 3 eat themselves. Fuel pump just glowing red hot as they come in from races.

[Mike Cook]

We have always used external pumps. Most pumps are sensitive to running out of gas (they overheat) so you want to try to avoid running your tank all the way empty. Fuel foam and baffling is vital. Make sure you have a coarse filter pre pump and a fine filter post pump. Too fine of a filter pre pump will starve the pump for fuel and probably destroy it. Make sure your filters are sock types...the ones with small screens don't have very much area and can clog up and starve your fuel system. If you are running EFI make sure you have a high pressure pump. Make sure the pump is mounted as low as possible so it doesn't have to suck fuel up hill. Keep it away from your exhaust.

Always have a spare pump. Put it somewhere easy to get to.

Anyways, thats about all the tips I have.

[ben_fordham_uoitmotorsports]

Hey Mike,

How critical is having 2 fuel filters? Only running premium fuel, with new fuel lines, aluminum tank with zero rust, I would think a simple inline filter located before the inlet of the pump would be suffice.

[Adambomb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ben_fordham_uoitmotorsports:
Hey Mike,

How critical is having 2 fuel filters? Only running premium fuel, with new fuel lines, aluminum tank with zero rust, I would think a simple inline filter located before the inlet of the pump would be suffice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The post-pump filter is absolutely 100% mandatory to keep the tiny orifices in the injectors from getting clogged. Must be a fine filter to keep the tiny junk out of the injectors, and the added flow restriction isn't so much of a problem since it's on the high-pressure side. This is the one that gets replaced/cleaned often, as the fine filter stops a lot more garbage.

Pre-pump filter keeps the pump from ingesting something bad. And BTW, premium fuel has just as much junk in it as non-premium fuel. As for having new lines, tank, etc., what that REALLY means is that it is likely to have little metal shavings stuck somewhere that WILL eventually dislodge, no matter how clean you THINK it is. And beyond that, every time you open the gas cap, there's a chance that some dust, bugs, or whatever, will make their way in there. Don't even pretend it won't happen. As has been mentioned, it must be a coarse filter, as while the pump is very good at pushing fluid, it is terrible at sucking fluid. Mainly just trying to filter out things big enough to damage the pump. They do sell inline screen types, but the most trouble free is the sock type, as Mike has mentioned. All it is is a mesh sock looking doo-dad, a little bigger than your thumb, that fits to the pump inlet. Basically all passenger cars use this...you've probably never seen it though unless you've replaced the fuel pump, as they very seldom get plugged up. Instead of providing a canister to collect the junk (like with an inline canister filter), most of the junk just stays in the tank.

[ben_fordham_uoitmotorsports]

k thanks for the help

[Mike Cook]

I'm a little bit anal about this because we have had many fuel pump failures, two of which knocked us out of endurance races. I found out that f4i injectors actually have small filters in them, but I still agree that you want to run a fine filter on the high pressure side of the pump, something like 10-20 micron. Between the tank and the pump you want like an 80 micron. Don't forget to clean /replace the filters. I make it a mandatory check before every endurance race now. Its amazing how much shit gets in a fuel tank, i'm not sure where it all comes from but it can ruin your day. I think adam is right, since we don't run these cars that much, and everything is fabbed, lines custom made, etc. there is a lot of dirt and debris left over that just takes time to filter out. Also, I have noticed that sometimes little pieces of fuel foam can break off and get caught in the filter. I have also noticed a lot of hair? caught in it. Not sure if someones (ex)girlfriend is screwing with us.

If it is easy enough, I would also suggest using a screen style funnel when fueling the car to help keep crap out of the tank completely.

Good luck,

[Adambomb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Cook:
... Also, I have noticed that sometimes little pieces of fuel foam can break off and get caught in the filter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A couple years ago when we were welding our tank up, we didn't put the foam in beforehand (don't remember if they just forgot, or was concerned about welding with it in there or what), so they decided to rip it up into little balls and stick it down the filler neck. We quickly found out that was a BAD idea! The foam did find its way into the pump and filter, and fuel pumps definitely don't last long when also being tasked with shredding foam!

[Mike Cook]

I never knew you could weld it up with foam in it....we usually have a removable panel.

[Drew Price]

We used a really meshy low density stuff, I believe from JAZ Products, that you could bunch up and push down the filler neck, it came in like 8"x8"x6" squares, and could compact down to like 1" cube, then kind of arrange it around in the tank when it was assembled.

As a side note, my Alfa GTV-6 uses a clever device to keep the pump primed (which is partly a byproduct of the rear suspension taking up so much room under the rear floor pan). There is just a port at the bottom of the tank (which is mounted behind the rear seat, a good 18"-20" off the ground) with a large ~0.875" I.D. fuel feed hose leading to the fuel pump, mounted about 4" from the ground - the large I.D. and ~20" long feed line acts as a reservoir to keep the pump primed even during hard cornering with a low tank - the hose holds like a quart of fuel!

No pre-pump needed, but I would hesitate to do it this way on purpose, since you have to mount the tank pretty high, but just a thought to a clever, simple way to avoid fuel starvation.

I'll have to get the car up on a lift and grab a photo or two, it'll make more sense.

Best,
Drew

[BuckeyeEngines]

This may be quite obviouse but what ever fuel pump you decide on take an extra one to comp. Two years ago I remember one of the Brazilian teams smoked theirs and knew we ran the same one. They found out that we had an extra and sent over some really hot chick asking to borrow it. Don't be those guys bring your own extra. Just an idea.

[Adambomb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BuckeyeEngines:
This may be quite obviouse but what ever fuel pump you decide on take an extra one to comp. Two years ago I remember one of the Brazilian teams smoked theirs and knew we ran the same one. They found out that we had an extra and sent over some really hot chick asking to borrow it. Don't be those guys bring your own extra. Just an idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Extra fuel pump or extra hot chick? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'd advise bringing both, bringing a hot chick is potentially equivalent to bringing about $1000 worth of parts due to their unique "procurement" abilities http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

[Drew Price]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Adambomb:
bringing a hot chick is potentially equivalent to bringing about $1000 worth of parts due to their unique "procurement" abilities http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



They don't take up much space either.



Best,
Drew

[t21jj]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Adambomb:
Extra fuel pump or extra hot chick? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'd advise bringing both, bringing a hot chick is potentially equivalent to bringing about $1000 worth of parts due to their unique "procurement" abilities http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

Works great

[BuckeyeEngines]

I don't know about that. Not sure if someone else gave them a pump but we didn't give them our extra seeing how it was before any dynamic events and we could have needed it. Finding the money to bring extra parts is probably easier than finding a hot girl to go to competition anyways.

[Wesley]

There are two fuel pumps we've used regularly because they're cheap and common. MSD, Summit, and lots of other companies sell the same pump branded as their own. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G3138/

That pump is available with a thousand different stickers on it, and from autozone and Oreilly for a ton of cars. (I think we usually ordered it for an 88 or some year Ford Ranger)

We've run the piss out of those pumps, some have been handed down for over 4 years now with no pre-filter (bad idea) and they're still running strong.

So in our traditional style, we're switching pump designs this year to an internal. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif