Future 05 team

[Axil]

Hi everyone, my name is Chad. I am a ME student at a college called IPFW (Indiana Univ, Purdue Univ. @ Ft. Wayne, Indiana) The collge already has the Mini Baja project going here. However, I want to get the Fcar started. I am working with Dean of Engr. to justify the college constructing us a building for these projects.
Next week I have a meeting with the Dean, the SAE advisor, Chair of Engr. and one other Professor to talk this over, before taking it to the Chancellor of the college. I was wondering if you guys could help me out with any information you'd think I might need to justify this project.

I am going to try and put a price list together, so maybe a few links to sites that you guys buy your parts from? Also, maybe what benefits your college has seen from these projects (i.e. increased students, more recuitment of students by certain manufactures, etc.)

Any other information that you think would be helpful would be greatly appreciated. Since the project is just starting out I am new to how the Fcar project works. However, I am not new to cars, motorcycles & racing and hope that helps out.
I am planning to attend the competetion in May also. Hope to get a better understanding of what to expect. By the way, everyone here has very impressive cars. There's a lot of a good engineering and dedication here http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks again,

Chad
Axile7@aol.com

[Axil]

Hi everyone, my name is Chad. I am a ME student at a college called IPFW (Indiana Univ, Purdue Univ. @ Ft. Wayne, Indiana) The collge already has the Mini Baja project going here. However, I want to get the Fcar started. I am working with Dean of Engr. to justify the college constructing us a building for these projects.
Next week I have a meeting with the Dean, the SAE advisor, Chair of Engr. and one other Professor to talk this over, before taking it to the Chancellor of the college. I was wondering if you guys could help me out with any information you'd think I might need to justify this project.

I am going to try and put a price list together, so maybe a few links to sites that you guys buy your parts from? Also, maybe what benefits your college has seen from these projects (i.e. increased students, more recuitment of students by certain manufactures, etc.)

Any other information that you think would be helpful would be greatly appreciated. Since the project is just starting out I am new to how the Fcar project works. However, I am not new to cars, motorcycles & racing and hope that helps out.
I am planning to attend the competetion in May also. Hope to get a better understanding of what to expect. By the way, everyone here has very impressive cars. There's a lot of a good engineering and dedication here http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks again,

Chad
Axile7@aol.com

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Hi Chad,

I'm always glad to see new schools starting a program. Feel free to contact me on or offline. I can give you a good idea of the costs and work required for the engine.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)
"Complete Engine Management Systems for $798"

[Charlie]

Attending the competition is a great idea, bring as many as you can.

Search this site for some great threads with advice for startup teams.

-Charlie Ping

I just need enough to tide me over until I need more.

[Flash]

We have started a team down here, and are in the process of designing our first car. We first put the idea to the HOD in October, and have been working away since then getting things organised.

One thing they have said since, now that it is all go, is that the main thing that sold them was our enthusiasm. They reckon we were so keen, that we were going to do it one way or another, so they might as well help us and get something from it. They also talked about the student morale (im sure there's a better word, but I can't think of it at the mo) that a project like this creates.

Obviously the could see the benefits as far as attracting students go as well.

Good Luck

Matt Houston
Technical Manager
University of Auckland

[Axil]

Hey thanks everyone. Brian I will be calling you tomorrow. I definetly plan to attend the compitition, even if I have to come by myself! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Hope to get to meet some of you. Thanks again for the fast responses! If you have anything else to add, please do. The meeting has been scheduled for Thursday. Flash, I have A LOT of enthusiasm too! Hopefully I can transfer some of that to the right people.

Thanks, Chad

[Gonzo]

To elaborate on Flash's reply, one of the ways we sold the project to the university was to tell them how big the competition is worldwide and how well recognised it is with major automotive manufacturers and motorsport teams. So what we were implying was that it was crazy for the university not to get involved as they would missing a great oppourtunity to present themselves on an international scale.

As well as this we pushed the attracting students to our university line which pleased the HOD and the Dean.

As flash said our enthusiasm paid dividends for us but I think the way we showed the university that it needed to be involved to be considered a top university also helped sway things our way.

I was surprised that the reaction from most of the teaching staff was initially that it would be too hard but they are starting to come around and it helps having the HOD as one of our major supporters.

Good luck and remember listen to the advice you are given and keep your first car simple. It is only after a few months of organisation that you fully begin to understand just how big a project this really is.

Geoff Spear
University of Auckland

[gug]

if you want to show how technical these cars can get, try showing your dean the viking 30 (a hand built 554cc v8) from West Washington. viking30 webpage (http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/viking30.htm)

or if you think your dean would be interested in aerodynamics, have a look at UTA's or Monash's cars.

you can find a few of these team's websites on http://www.sae.org/students/fsaeteams.htm . but does anyone out there know why this list has suddenly halved in size? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

- absolutely everything was available to him, but that only meant it was impossible to find what he was looking for, which is the purpose of computers.

[Brent Howard]

SAE got tired of having old/broken links, so they asked all teams to forward their websites in for review and approval. You needed to have current information to get approved. Most teams did not submit their websites and so are not listed. You can still submit though.

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[Axil]

Thanks again for all the replies and links guys.
I am working on putting together a price list and was wondering if someone could tell me what the cost of materials is to build the frame? Just a ball park figure is all I am looking for. And if you could tell me what kind of metal tubing you are finding to be the best.

Also, just for the hell of it. What the build cost is for a monocoque tub chassis.

Thanks in advance.

Chad

[Denny Trimble]

1) If you can talk your local steel distributor (who stocks 4130 and/or 1020 steel tubing) into sponsoring your team, as well as the stress-reliever, sand-blaster, and powder-coater, then free! That's what we do.

2) If you can talk a research lab on campus to donate a fridge full of expired pre-preg, and an aerospace company to CNC machine foam male master parts, then also very little.

Otherwise, about $2000 for a frame (material and paying people to do the HT/sandblast/powdercoat). Carbon fiber, I don't even know, probably more like $3000 to $5000 if you're paying full retail. But you shouldn't!

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[Kevin Hayward]

Denny,

I worry about a few teams making reference to expired carbon-fibre prepregs. Having done quite a bit of testing on expired prepreg material it is amazing how much strength can be lost over time. At times you can definitely feel the differences in the material as you are laying it in the mould.

I would also worry about how the material has been treated during its lifetime. How many times have the rolls been out of the freezer to work with?

I do not see the need to use expired prepreg. The composite supply companies are generally pretty happy to help out the student teams either with free materials or materials so cheap that they are almost free. In fact our material costs have been cut dramatically by shifting to a monocoque construction technique because of this good will.

Oh ... you may call me a wimp but I don't drink expired milk either.

Cheers,

Kev

Professional student
UWA Motorsport

[Edie Hamilton]

Do those who have have opted for advanced materials (esp. a Carbon fibre monocoque tub) often have a hard time convincing fellow team members that it is justifiable in terms of performance even in the face of higher cost?

The team I am in, ANU, was the first Australian team to use a CF monocoque/space frame hybrid. It was relatively successful in 2002. 2003 we went with the hybrid chassis again...but the car didn't rate too well through "technical difficulties". Now in 2004 it looks like we may go back to a steel space frame. Why? Because the cost report has graphite composites costed at $220.50/kg and mild steel at $0.30/pound. So the frame and body section of our cost report doesn't look too good.

This has become a much more important factor that pushing ourselves to produce a superior chassis in terms of rigidity and weight. It seems a little disappointing to revert back to the more traditional approach.

I know we are only meant to be constructing a weekend racer, but surely that shouldn't mean we avoid including new technology.

Then again maybe as someone who has focussed on advanced material through out my degree I have a biased point of view.

What do other people out there think? I am interested in the pro-spaceframe view as well.

Edith Hamilton

Ticuna Motorsports

[flybywire]

Has anyone researched using a hybrid steel tube and pre-fabricated carbon fiber tube space frame? That sounds like an interesting idea to me. Meet the roll-over and side-impact requirements with a simple steel tube frame and then add rigidity with carbon fiber members.

Might be pretty easy to analyze the structure and could be constructed fairly easily because there would be no molds, lay-up, resin, etc. A suitable end-lug system would have to be developed to attach the carbon fibre tube but it could probably take the form of a machined insert bonded into the end of the carbon fibre tube.

Different co-efficients of thermal expansion might raise some interesting problems of their own though.

(Take for example the illustration explaining the side impact protection in the rules. It shows two horizontal steel tubes and a steel diagonal tube. But also shows an upper frame member in this areas that isn't considered part of the side impact protection. So, replacing the upper frame member with a CF tube...)

[Edie Hamilton]

We are looking at replacing some of our rear space frame with carbon fibre tubing. But we still haven't finalised our method of mounting the steel tubing to the carbon. Though we aare heading in the direction of a machined insert.

The prefabricated tubing still seems to be a bit on the expensive side...