How Many first year teams?

[ReadySetGo]

Just wondering how many first year teams are going to be there this May? I just think if we keep growing like we do, the 140 team cap is simply not going to work.

I just wish we could split it to a west coast east coast, then off to the national event. I know there are a lot of difficulties with that, because we struggle to even have our car done by May let alone have it ready a couple weeks earlier for another compitition.

But back to the first question: How many 1st year teams are going to Michigan in May?

-Omar Barker
Vice President
CSU, Sacramento
Hornet Racing Development

[ReadySetGo]

Just wondering how many first year teams are going to be there this May? I just think if we keep growing like we do, the 140 team cap is simply not going to work.

I just wish we could split it to a west coast east coast, then off to the national event. I know there are a lot of difficulties with that, because we struggle to even have our car done by May let alone have it ready a couple weeks earlier for another compitition.

But back to the first question: How many 1st year teams are going to Michigan in May?

-Omar Barker
Vice President
CSU, Sacramento
Hornet Racing Development

[vinHonda]

Plans are in the works for an East and West coast. But all the details are still being discussed by the SAE people. I know they are working flat out to come to a good solution though.

Vinh

University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
www.fsae.utoronto.ca (http://www.fsae.utoronto.ca)

[js10coastr]

My 2 cents:

Have an East comp, and a West comp...maybe a central one also. Top 3 or so in each competition win free travel to a National comp in late June/early July.

www.calpolysae.org (http://www.calpolysae.org)

[Marc Jaxa-Rozen]

We're a first year team here as well. It's probably a "first and last" situation for our school, though.

Marc
École Nationale d'Aérotechnique

[ReadySetGo]

Marc, sorry to hear that. Why dont they want to continue the program?

As for the east coast west coast thing, that would be completely cool, and hopefully it comes through.

-Omar Barker
CSU, Sacramento
Hornet Racing Development
http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~formula/

[Didier Beaudoin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ReadySetGo:
Marc, sorry to hear that. Why dont they want to continue the program? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not that the school doesn't want to, it's just that there doesn't seem to be enough interest and/or potential among the students to take over the project. We're not a university and it does show off sometimes. Suspension calculations and variables tend to scare most of the guys here.

Anyway, we'll be continuing next year at University, so the FSAE experience is far from over for us.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Didier Beaudoin
Team Leader -
École Nationale d'Aérotechnique

[Sam Zimmerman]

Hmmm...East and west coast competition. If they had that last year I would never have gotten to meet the members from Auburn and see their great sportsmanship. I would have also missed the chance to see the Flying Fins in action and see Cornell's class after they battled back from wrecking a car to take a very hard earned top ten finish.

How many of you would have missed the comradery of the Aussies, the great ideas of the Japanese, or the determination that UC Irvine showed in spite of the odds?

The large event has it's drawbacks but it is worth the trip no matter where you have to travel from.

Sorry for those who have seen this rant before but I will continue to climb on my soapbox everytime this horrible idea shows it's ugly head.

Sam Zimmerman
Vandals Racing (http://www.uidaho.edu/~racing)

[ReadySetGo]

Well you're comming from Idaho, we're comming from California. I know thats not an excuse, but thats a damn long drive! We obviously dont have enough funds to fly over there. So in order to save time and money, it would be ideal to have a compition closer to the west coast.

You do make a good point though. Its awesome to see sooooooo many schools struggle, compete and win together.

-Omar Barker
CSU, Sacramento
Hornet Racing Development
http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~formula/

[James Waltman]

Mini Baja U.S. Competitions
East: 57 teams entered
Midwest: 136 teams entered
West: 72 teams entered

With entries from
South Africa
Canada
Puerto Rico
Brazil
Korea
Argentina
Mexico
And more?


Additional competitions:
Brazil
South Africa
Mexico
Asia?

I think that there should be a west coast competition. Sam, if it works anything like Mini-Baja (and why wouldn't it) there will always be teams from other countries. There will always be great people to meet. There will always be great action. If you add another U.S. FSAE you will surely get teams that enter both. Instead of a competition that was limited to 140 you might get two separate ones with 100 entrants each. It would just be a bonus if you could make it to more than one competition, like it is now if a team gets to go to all three current competitions (FSAE, F-Student, FSAE-A). Isn't there a Japanese FSAE too? Sam, by your logic we should not have Formula Student because you would miss out on it. Or we should not have FSAE-A because it was not big enough with only 21 entries. Bring on a second U.S. competition – I prefer west coast because that is where we are – but I would be happy if there was on in Nebraska.

I relinquish the soap box to the gentleman from Idaho for a response.

James Waltman
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/
Vehicle Research Institute at
Western Washington University

[Sam Zimmerman]

Omar - There is only 200 miles difference between your drive and ours but after working so hard for so long on a project like this; 200 extra miles is really nothing compared to the time you have invested in the car.

James - I doubt there will ever be the same number of teams entering as Mini-Baja, but I could be wrong. I would never say that there should be no Formula Student or FSAE-A. I do think, however, that many people do not realize what a unique chance it is to take your hard work and compare it against the hard work of others from not only around the country but around the world. For 99.99% of the competitors, they will never get an opportunity like this again in their lives. I wouldn't trade that for a couple days less on the road per year.

Additionally, if the event did go through an "expansion," do you think it will increase or decrease the quality of the entries? Maybe it isn't a fair comparison, but judging from baseball, football, basketball, NASCAR and hockey I would say that the quality of the competition would decrease through expansion.

Finally, I would ask someone like Charlie or a student from GT, was it worth it to go half way across the world to compete?

Sam Zimmerman
Vandals Racing (http://www.uidaho.edu/~racing)

[James Waltman]

Sam,
It's not just about the long drive to Detroit. I've worked on our car for a long damn time – I would push it to Detroit myself if that's what it took. I'm saying that, if there was another U.S. competition, there would still be a lot of competitors and there would still be teams from all over the world.

I don't think it can really be compared to expansion teams in pro sports. In the NFL an expansion means new teams and they usually suck for a few years. FSAE was arbitrarily capped at 140 teams – not the best or worst - just the first to sign up. The teams that got left out are not all new and the teams that got in are not all good. I think that adding another competition would allow for more teams to get a chance – this is about learning.
I don't think that it is possible to lower the quality at competition. Some horrible cars will show up every time and the good ones get better every year.

I still haven't seen a good reason not to have another event - other than management resources (valid but lame).

James Waltman
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/
Vehicle Research Institute at
Western Washington University

[Sam Zimmerman]

Ok, off the soapbox for a while. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I will be at WWU on the 5th next month. I would like to look at your shop and then go have a beer if you will be around.

Sam Zimmerman
Vandals Racing (http://www.uidaho.edu/~racing)

[Charlie]

I think what Sam is saying is if there are 2 US competitions then which competition is the one that crowns the world champion? If there is a west competition and it is younger and smaller, will it keep a lot of 'poorer (financially)' teams out of the main competition? I'm not sure...

With Baja, everyone knows the main competition is the Midwest, and if there was a FSAE west competition, I think the Detroit comp will still be #1 in everyone's eyes. But first year teams or teams that know they are struggling won't sign up for both, and that may take a load off the main FSAE competition and allow better international teams to enter.

Surely there will be lots of great teams that enter both competitions so the competition level should still be reasonably high in either.

Basically I think a west coast competition will be great, as it will allows a lot of teams to compete twice, take a bit of a burden off the Detroit comp, while not diluting Detroit's status as the #1 competition.

Smaller competitions are great, at FSAE-A the time schedule was so much easier, and the teams had a lot more time to relax because they didn't have so much congestion and long lines (of course we never had to thrash on the car and that helped). That gave a lot more time to look at other cars and talk to other teams. Bigger isn't always better.

-Charlie Ping

I just need enough to tide me over until I need more.

[James Waltman]

Sam,
Sounds great. I'll buy the first round. Are you bringing Lacy with? Email me and we can set something up.

James Waltman
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/
Vehicle Research Institute at
Western Washington University

[Moody]

We're virtually a 1st year team. UA competed in 2001, but this year starts our real-deal involvement. Roll Tide!

Matt Moody
Crimson Racing
University of Alabama FSAE
matt@pepper.net

[Lacy Lodmell]

Hey James, I'll be in the western Washington area the weekend of Valentine's Day pending approval from my employer. I'll shoot you an e-mail when I find out for sure.

Just to play devil's advocate and ruffle Charlie's feathers a little bit:

Who says the North American competition crowns the world champion? I'm sure there are several schools in Australia and England who would contest that, on any given day, if the Track and Tire Gods smiled upon them, they could run with the biggest dogs if they had the money to ride a boat to the New World and play. If the 'Gong had their strong program but was short of coin last year (i.e. couldn't have made the trip to the Big Show), would we have known that the "world champion" last year came from Down Under? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'm not going to say I disagree with you, Charlie, but someone was bound to ask the question.

[Edited to clean up ridiculous grammar.]

Lacy Lodmell
Vandals Racing 2003
University of Idaho FSAE

[Charlie]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Sure it is debatable, but if you assume one competition is the 'main' competition, that's definitely it.

-Charlie Ping

I just need enough to tide me over until I need more.

[RiNaZ]

hey marc, you decided on which school you guys planning on going to once you guys graduate? we could use your help over here http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc Jaxa-Rozen:
We're a first year team here as well. It's probably a "first and last" situation for our school, though.

Marc
École Nationale d'Aérotechnique<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RiNaZ

[Didier Beaudoin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RiNaZ:
hey marc, you decided on which school you guys planning on going to once you guys graduate? we could use your help over here http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc Jaxa-Rozen:
We're a first year team here as well. It's probably a "first and last" situation for our school, though.

Marc
École Nationale d'Aérotechnique<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RiNaZ<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Embry Riddle, eh? Hmm, we'll think about it.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif You pay the registration fees? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Marc and I are planning to go to ÉTS (École de Technologie Supérieure) next year. Their Formula SAE team has got great results in the past and they are now doing a carbon fiber monocoque.

Didier Beaudoin
Team Leader -
École Nationale d'Aérotechnique

[RiNaZ]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I cant even pay my own! LOL! The tuition is close to 8 grand per semester right now. I dont know about you, but you have to be filthty rich to go to school here. Lucky me, i got Financial Aid (well ... maybe not so lucky me).

RiNaZ

[Marc Jaxa-Rozen]

Yeah, I think we talked about that like two years ago...IIRC tuition for non-US residents was like 25K US a year. Too bad there are no FSAE scholarships http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif