Unobtainium

[Frank]

Have just been playing with CES, and I'm wondering

Has anyone ever made a solid shaft from this material? (Data from CES)

Multiphase alloy, MP35N, ST; Cold drawn and aged
Density 8.37262 - 8.45676 Mg/m^3
Co (Cobalt) 35 %
Cr (Chromium) 20 %
Mo (Molybdenum) 10 %
Ni (Nickel) 35 %
Elastic Limit 1.586e+003 - 1.834e+003 MPa
Endurance Limit 717 - 948 MPa
Fracture Toughness * 120 - 150 MPa.m^1/2
Hardness - Vickers 87 - 107 HV

*** are these hardness values a mistake??? ***

Poisson's Ratio 0.37 - 0.385102
Tensile Strength 1.793e+003 - 1.98174e+003 MPa
Young's Modulus 234 - 246 GPa
Typical Uses
pump and valve components, spray nozzles, fasteners, cables, and marine hardware.

http://www.cartech.com/products/wr_products_aero_service.html?leftn=our_products&lefto=empty&lefti=our_sa0

Any advice much appreciated

Frank

http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/ces.jpg

[This message was edited by Frank on March 08, 2004 at 08:14 AM.]

[Denny Trimble]

Hey Frank,
Rookie question here. What's CES, and where can I get more cool charts like the one you posted here? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[Frank]

http://www-edc.eng.cam.ac.uk/technology/software/ces/

http://catalog.lib.washington.edu/search/aashby/aashby/49,97,216,B/frameset&FF=aashby+m+f&11,,13

perhaps either of these:

MSE 310 Introduction to Materials Science and Engineering
MSE 492 Design in Materials Engineering II

[Denny Trimble]

Wow, a customized link to my university's library... awesome info! Thanks a bunch Frank.

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[-]

I personally worked at carpenter on an internship my sophmore year. I answer your question, yes there are alloys that exhibit these properties (i am assuming the listed properties that you have are straight from their website listing of properties). The one thing you will find is that the cost of these alloys is through the roof, Aermet 100 isn't too bad, but from what I remember, but Aermet 310 is pricey (its really only used on aircraft rotors . I was lucky enough to have a set of axles made from Aermet 100 while I worked there for our 2002 car, and even then it was a small feat trying to get the material and have it gun drilled to spec.

I have heard of teams in the past of using this stuff for axle shafts and stub shafts (ie.. Purdue, and others), but it can be hell to work with in anything but the annealed state. With this in mind if want to use this stuff, and can afford to use it and machine it, you need a competent heat treater who can properly do post machining heat treatments to the pieces.

My recommendation is not to use this stuff unless you have can work a deal with Carpenter, or any of other steel manufactures that make high strength Nickel based alloys. This stuff is expensive and it takes time to properly machine the material and properly use their mechanical properties to the fullest. With this said since FSAE teams often need quick turn around on parts instead of super highly engineered light weight parts, my recommendation is just to use a more friendly material like 4340 chromoly, or 300M which you can often get in an annealed state and in tube form. From what I remember you can't get any of the Carpenter highsthrength Nickel based alloys in any type of tube form.

[Frank]

thx for the info "-" !!!!

[-]

You're welcome, let me know how you turn out this year.

-Mark

[Frank]

hehe i thought you'd like that denny http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i remember you setting my mind at ease when i had made a large screwup...

when i had the roll moment ratio around the wrong way.. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


http://fsae.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=763607348&f=125607348&m=3226059164&r=3226059164#3226059164

you seem like one of the more helpful people in here.. so i thought id try and do something helpful for you for a change

[James Waltman]

We had some of the Aermet 310 around here this summer. We put it on the hardness tester and were shocked. I'm not sure if I am allowed to say how we got a piece.

So NASCAR tries to keep the cost of racing down. We all know that can't really happen. They have banned the use of Titanium because it is expensive. So the teams have started having stuff made from AerMet. Several times more expensive. Funny how that works.

And yes, Denny is a helpful guy.

[-]

Penske racing, due to its close relationship with Carpenter (they are less then a mile or two apart) has used aermet axles and the like in the past. Aermet works really well in crashing because the parts tend to bend and plasticlly deform instead of shattering like some other materials do. This makes the job of the track officals much easier by pick up an axle or two instead of 300 shards of one that are strewn across a track after an accident.

Aerment 310 shouldn't be too hard to get, you can call and order small lengths of it from what I remember. The only thing is that is just way to expensive.

James, what kind of hardness readings were you seeing on the peice that you got hold of.

[MikeWaggoner at UW]

Is Aerment an amorphous metal? It looks like it might be one from the combination of elements...

(Amorphous metals are metals that aren't crystallized. Any metal can be made amorphous under VERY specific conditions, but certain combinations of elements are stable and not brittle when amorphous)

[James Waltman]

I can't remember the exact value. We had been told that the tensile strength was near 300ksi. There is a chart next to our hardness tester that correlates hardness to tensile strength. The hardness value corresponded near 300ksi. We were surprised.

I really don't know much more about the material.

[-]

From what I remember, Aerment is not an amorphous metal, it just has a super high hardenability with the addition of nickel and other elements. Also if we all remember from our materials classes back in school that as you increase the grain boundries, you increase the dislocations and therefore increase strength. Aermet takes advantage of this property and has really small grain sizes in comparison to other metals. The final heattreatment of the material is key in helping to get these small grain sizes.

Also Aerment 310 is so named for its nearly 310ksi tensile strength