Is air a fuel??

[Kiwi FSAE]

Just wondering does FSAE class air as a fuel?

Technically it is, since it is consumed and some other thermodynamic stuff. But in the rules it is stated that only 98RON Fuel is to be used so it sounds like air is not included.

And before anybody asks I don't want to use NOS or add anything to the air (I know these are naughty).

[Max_camber_gain]

Page 35 of the 2003 rules:
"3.5.2.2 Fuel Additives - Prohibited
No agents other than fuel (gasoline or E85), and air may be
induced into the combustion chamber. Non-adherence to this rule
will be reason for disqualification. Officials have the right to
inspect the oil."

I suppose that they consider air an 'agent'...

MCG

[Kiwi FSAE]

I'm more concerned with some of the other rules regarding fuel.

[Max_camber_gain]

like what? Please elaborate.

I think that rule sais it pretty clearly, that if they find anything other than the fuel that they put in your tank, and the air we breath in your combustion chamber, then your in some hot water. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MCG

[Kiwi FSAE]

It's too early to be giving away secrets. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif But lets say that only fresh air will be going into the engine.

[Max_camber_gain]

yeah, thats cool...

Just make sure it is well within the rules. They have this cluse that says that if it is outside the 'intent' of the rules, then it is not legal, even if theres no rule to stop it.

I hope you can pull of some advantage over the conventional way of doing things! Goodluck!

[Kiwi FSAE]

Yeah I'll have to have a quite word to Pat D'Rat about it.

It a little something that we thought up during a pub crawl. I'm keen to know if it's been done before but don't want to give it away.

[Denny Trimble]

Just make sure you meet rule 3.5.4.3:
"all engine airflow must pass through the restrictor."

But if you're not combusting it, would nitrogen be counted as air? I'm guessing you're going for a compressed air type "boost". Watch out for high-pressure certified tanks though, I think 3000psi in a homemade tank might not make it past tech.

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[Big Daddy]

Thats what I thought was meant... something like a scuba tank feed in the right under the throttle body before the restrictor. Would that be illegal? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"A woman is a lot like a beer, they look good, smell good, and you would run over your own mother to get one." Homer Simpson

Nobody is born with a steering wheel or a gear shift in his hand. It's something you choose to do or you don't.
Mario Andretti (1977)

[Kiwi FSAE]

Nope not using compressed air. That could work but a tank big enough for endro will weigh a fair bit. Has anyone tryed this?

[Big Daddy]

If you did use pressurized air would it have to go after the restrictor? Acording to the rules the super and turbo charger has to be after it so why would compressed air be any different. Just another question to add to the list. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"A woman is a lot like a beer, they look good, smell good, and you would run over your own mother to get one." Homer Simpson

Nobody is born with a steering wheel or a gear shift in his hand. It's something you choose to do or you don't.
Mario Andretti (1977)

[Max_camber_gain]

I think that the rule that there has to be no throttle body (i.e. valve, gate, tap etc) after the restrictor rules out the possibility of compressed air injection after the restrictor. I think they have made a sort of consession for turbos in this case though, so they cant be before the restrictor.
Basically I think that this rule is to stop peak Hp being ridiculous (i.e 150hp), even if it is just for a second or two. So I would think that the answer to just about any question that gets you 150 hp would be no... (because of that rule about the intent of the rules)

But yeah, that edea of shooting air through the restrictor is a bloody good one... thanks for sharing it http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif... no, dont worry! I think it would be too hard to implement!

MCG

[Big Daddy]

The engine I'm using does not choke the restrictor at redline so I could possibly get that boost from a super or turbo charger rather than a tank of air. But for a inline 4 running 13 grand a short burst of air in the accel run would probably benifit to some extent. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"A woman is a lot like a beer, they look good, smell good, and you would run over your own mother to get one." Homer Simpson

Nobody is born with a steering wheel or a gear shift in his hand. It's something you choose to do or you don't.
Mario Andretti (1977)

[PatClarke]

Pat D'Rat is sitting quietly in the background making that 'Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm' sound =]
PDR

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

[woollymoof]

air (oxygen) is not classed as a fuel, its an oxidant. it is part of the combustion process, naturally, but if you look in the tables for calorific values etc it always has a value of 0. the values for other fuels take into account that part of the energy released during combustion is from the oxygen.

Cheers,

Kirk Veitch
Swinburne University of Technology 2004

[Kiwi FSAE]

Is that a Mmmmmmmmm, pizza or Mmmmmmmm interesting sound??

[Big Daddy]

I kind of wish Pat would shed some light on the subject. I don't think many of us has a concrete idea whether this is legal or illegal. The rules don't prohibit it but thats not to say a judge won't pull the plug.

"A woman is a lot like a beer, they look good, smell good, and you would run over your own mother to get one." Homer Simpson

Nobody is born with a steering wheel or a gear shift in his hand. It's something you choose to do or you don't.
Mario Andretti (1977)

[karter]

how about an oxygen intensifier like the little machine my grandma has. I think the diffuser media is aspen and gets regenerated by reversing the air flow.

[Big Daddy]

Interesting a filter that would make the charge of air mostly O2 hmmmmmmmm that would be a fun toy to play with huh. Maybe I should go take my grandma's away heck she is 90 does she really need it. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"A woman is a lot like a beer, they look good, smell good, and you would run over your own mother to get one." Homer Simpson

Nobody is born with a steering wheel or a gear shift in his hand. It's something you choose to do or you don't.
Mario Andretti (1977)

[PatClarke]

That Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm is the noise one makes when one smells a large grey rodent =]
I would certainly shed some light on the subject if I knew what the heck you were talking about, so Kiwi, I am watching my mailbox. Obviously, anything confidential stays confidential
PDR

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

[Big Daddy]

You will have one from me in the morning once I sort it out myself. Maybe I can shed some light on it for you then.

"A woman is a lot like a beer, they look good, smell good, and you would run over your own mother to get one." Homer Simpson

Nobody is born with a steering wheel or a gear shift in his hand. It's something you choose to do or you don't.
Mario Andretti (1977)

[Kiwi FSAE]

This one goes out to all the technical advisors listening tonight out there in forum land.

I've sent a email to fsaetech@ozmail.com.au

Now back to your regular foruming.

[PatClarke]

Just checked my mail Kiwi, and nothing there yet =]
PDR

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength