Challenge SIA

[PatClarke]

And now for something completely different.
Who is aware of the similar competition held in France called Challenge SIA (Societe des Ingenieurs Automobile)?
The French competition is for two seat sportscars 'barquettes', or coupes powered by a 1000cc engine and with a minimum weight of 450kg.
They look like sports racing cars, or LeMans prototypes.
I have a few pics to post if....
1. If anyone is interested, and
2. If I knew how http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pat D'Rat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

[PatClarke]

And now for something completely different.
Who is aware of the similar competition held in France called Challenge SIA (Societe des Ingenieurs Automobile)?
The French competition is for two seat sportscars 'barquettes', or coupes powered by a 1000cc engine and with a minimum weight of 450kg.
They look like sports racing cars, or LeMans prototypes.
I have a few pics to post if....
1. If anyone is interested, and
2. If I knew how http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pat D'Rat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

[Charlie]

I think we've found a way to mend US-French relations. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pat, if you can email me the pictures I will post them. cpmaverick@yahoo.com

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This message was edited by Charlie on July 19, 2003 at 08:56 AM.]

[Matt Gignac]

I've heard about this competition before, and it seems cool. You're allowed to power the car with anything with any kind of fuel, provided the total output at the wheels of all the engines, electric motors, whatever else drives the wheels is less than 100hp.

[Frank]

you think they'll take an FSAE car with no restrictor and ballast (in the tyres of course claude)? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[V2 - Italy]

This is the official link:
http://www.sia.fr/Challenge/ChallengeSIA.html

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif which is the official language? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Daniele

Firenze Race Team V2

http://www.firenzerace.too.it

DUCATI POWER at the UniversitÃ* di Firenze

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

The official language is obviously French!

I sent an e-mail to the info address on the page last week and asked if the rules are available in another language as well. I have not heard back anything back though.

Maybe there is a French-Canadian guy here on the forum here that is willing to translate the rules?

Daniel Deussen

[Daves]

I let Babelfish translate the entire rulebook into English, and the result is located at http://what3542.5u.com/dave/m04 09-english.doc If you want to work on translating the file better, please upload it to your website after you are done so we can all read it.

[This message was edited by dave_s on July 21, 2003 at 01:30 PM.]

[Matt Gignac]

Alright, here's the abriged rules

Aimed at engineering students interested in auto racing

The object of the competition is to learn the steps of design, and the problems that follow, give students practical knowledge, promote technological innovation, get to know people in the business, develop new power sources, basically a mini 24h of le Mans.

The car: A two seater, 4wheeled, max 1000cc and max 100horsepower, this type of car because it will allow the studnet to encounter the most problem scenarios and its like Le Mans, security is the most important thing, gotta make a security structure calculation report.

Judging based on the technical merit of the car, and its performance, judged by big time car people.

Admissibility: open to any student, no pros, can have a faculty advisor

Car admissibility: open cockpit, 2 seats, any kind of fuel, electric motors are good, turbos ok, no restrictor, max 100hp, max 1000hp for petrol engines, motor can go anywhere, must have a cat for gas engines, any oil is ok, good safe fuel tank not on top of wheels and not near any sources of a lot of heat, need firewall, max 90dB, any kind of cooling, any type of tranny, gotta have suspension, 13 inch wheels with dunlop tires, 4 wheels on the ground all the time, car doesnt touch the floor when 2 tires deflated, any type of stering, seperate braking circuits for front and rear, any kind of chassis is good, as long as proved safe, 5 second egress rule, steering quick release, feet behing front wheels, if your car is judged not safe you dont get to compete, need a body with mirrors, no wings sticking out either in front or behind or to the sides of the car, or above the highest point of the chassis, bodywork well held in place, brake light of min 21W at least 50cm from the ground, two 15W hazard lights, need a safety switch, any kind of ecu, data acq. is good, no car to pit telemetry, FIA rules apply unless we tell you so

Registration: write these people to get a registration form, registration form includes section of team members, and another of technical abstract, must be signed by dean or whatever, 150 euro admin fee, you get a car number, you realize the rules, we're not responsible if yada yada yada

dates: registration must be in by jan 31st, competition the week before le mans, static reports in 30 days before le mans

Ill write the rest later im tired

[Matt Gignac]

Events: dynamic and static, judged by insustry specialists, object of events is to verify the functioning of the vehicle and to attribute a hierarchy among the entrants (thats exactly how they word it)

Static events:

Reports and such:
-Structure of the team with each individual's role
-Technical report of the car (architectural sketch, special little technical things, anything you want the judge to see to judge the reasons you designed something a certain way
-calculation report for the structure of the car, especially for rollover protection
-for one particular part, a complete report including:the problem and its analysis, the reasoning for the selectioon of the technical choice, justification of material, production methods, cost analysis
-method to limit horsepower
-list of in-house parts and purchased, sub-contracted parts

Technical Inspection:
/Judges can refuse access to dynamic events
-Can require changes to allow participation in dynamic events
-Jury will judge on innovation, security, reparability, construction quality, technical choices, project management
-After dynamic events, judges can measure how long it takes to change an engine, transmision, brakes
-No changing stuff after static events
-Some slight mods are allowed for dynamic events, must be checked by member of jury/staff

Dynamic Events
-noise test
-60 to 0 brake test
-handling test
-enduro-economy test: you get 10 litres of fuel, or the equivalent energetic value, and complete the most laps possible with that fuel, partial laps dont count, laps times to the tenth of a second, fixing the car is ok in the pits, if it breaks down on track, the driver is allowed moving it off the track to the side, and fixing it with whatever's available on/in the car, no pushing the car

-perfromance indicator: IP=P*(t+dt), where p is the weight of the car, t is the best lap time, and dt is the sum of all the differences of lap times from the best lap times

-scoring: a combination of the distance covered and the IP (highest distance minus IP)

Organisation: driver must be at least 18, many drivers ok, there will be practice sessions, there will be briefing sessions, no car to pit radio, driver must have racing license or racing experience, results will be posted

Safety:
-manoeuvring: when not racing, move with motor off
-assistance: max 6 people in pits including driver
-on track:if youre an idiot or are unsportsmanlike, you get the black flag and youre out, if your car messes up, raise a hand, move your car off the track when the track officials get there, put the steering wheel on so they can move it around
-start:driver msut have helmet, fire resistant everything, car can only change line once before first turn

Identification:
-you need place for a bajillion stickers for all the sponsors of the competition, you can put your own sponsor stickers unless the happen to be the competition of any official sponsor
-team: everyone on the team gets identification, at all times during the event you're not supposed to act like an idiot

then theres a bunch of liability mumbo jumbo lawyer speak

Prize list
Winner get SIA prize
Best aesthetics get prize from ACO
Best safety structure gets prize from UTAC
Innovation Prize from Dunlop
Best Communication Prize goes to team with best PR, press coverage, TV appearances, web site, photos, videos, etc
New Energy Award goes to the team that best used an alternate power source

[Banacek]

It looks like all you aero package guys finally have a place to strut your stuff. Too bad about the wing limitations, but you could still do quite a bit. 100HP on what I'm infering is a true track course is gonna get you up to some fun speeds.

Banacek

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

I just got an e-mail from an official from SIA:
----------------
Hello,

I regret to inform you that Challenge SIA Rules are not available in English yet.
We plan to add them on our web site within a few weeks. I'll inform you as soon as they are available.
Thank you for the interest you took in this competition.

Best regards,

Marie-Claude BURAUX
Training and Development Manager
-----------------

Daniel Deussen
www.walbro-italy.com (http://www.walbro-italy.com)

[Daves]

Does a rear wing count as a 2nd seat?

[Daygo Nighthawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Gignac:
max 1000hp for petrol engines...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sweet. forget formula sae, i'm learning french and moving to france! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I want to learn how to get 1,000hp/liter

just kidding, sounds very similar to formula sae. why don't those backward french just join formula student??

___________________________________
College is a fountain of knowledge . . .
and the students are there to drink.

[Frank]

" why don't those backward french just join formula student?? "

ummmm.. letme think... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

seriously though... "feet behind the axles" rule kinda stuffs things

[PatClarke]

Frank, the one French car that turned up at Formula Student was absolutely horrible. Not a triangulated structure in sight, and with half a Weber carburettor feeding a sheet metal manifold.
Two interesting features though, it was on Michelin tyres and one of their drivers was a stunner...looks wise. I have her picture somewhere http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
BTW, there are some really nice pix posted on the SIA site now...It looks like they had three cars this year http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Pat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

[gug]

how could french join formula student? dont you have to fill out the forms in english? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

im not really racist, i just hate the french.

- if it isnt coming, you need a bigger tool.

[gug]

hey, but they do have some neat ideas! check out this intergrated, polished aluminium, air driven fax machine sitting on the front of their car!
http://www.sia.fr/Challenge/Photos_site/2003-Equipe_PMChallenge.jpg


and for all those aero guys out there, surely
that rear wing is in seperated flow after that
shocking cockpit, and as such is purely for
wank factor? its not like i know much aero,
but frech riceboys are a funny image!
- if it isnt coming, you need a bigger tool.

[ben]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlie:
I think we've found a way to mend US-French relations. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


[This message was edited by Charlie on July 19, 2003 at 08:56 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely it would be cheaper for American's and their government to stop getting so upset just because some members of the European Union don't want to blow up the Mid(dle) East :-P

Ben

P.S. I don't mean that rudely, I love America, I love France, but I don't love seeing innocent people die for flawed ideology.

University of Birmingham
www.ubracing.co.uk (http://www.ubracing.co.uk)

[Sam Zimmerman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ben:
Surely it would be cheaper for American's and their government to stop getting so upset just because some members of the European Union don't want to blow up the Mid(dle) East :-P

Ben

P.S. I don't mean that rudely, I love America, I love France, but I don't love seeing innocent people die for flawed ideology.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would love to teach you a few things about politics, ideology, innocent people dieing, terrorism, and mass graves but this is not the place. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sam Zimmerman
Vandals Racing (http://www.uidaho.edu/~racing)

[Charlie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ben:
Surely it would be cheaper for American's and their government to stop getting so upset just because some members of the European Union don't want to blow up the Mid(dle) East :-P
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ben-

I tryed World peace, but I found building racecars easier and more enjoyable. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[ben]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ben:
Surely it would be cheaper for American's and their government to stop getting so upset just because some members of the European Union don't want to blow up the Mid(dle) East :-P
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ben-

I tryed World peace, but I found building racecars easier and more enjoyable. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-Charlie Ping
http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto,but with one caveat;

To try world peace you need to be aware of the rest of the world. I notice you're entered in the Aussie comp, you are therefore in the minority of US citizens with a passport :-), I salute you!

Ben

University of Birmingham
www.ubracing.co.uk (http://www.ubracing.co.uk)

[Frank]

i like this quote

"the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/franko/

[Andy K]

Damn... and I spent all summer dreaming about the LMP racer I want to build once I'm done with University studies... The plan was to run a Yamaha R1 engine!

http://www.angelfire.com/mech/924swagen/andylmp1sml.jpg

Andris Kanins
McGill Racing Team
2002/2003 Body Design
2003/2004 Suspension

[V2 - Italy]

Nice to see.
It looks like a single seater car, but the LMP must have two seats?!
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifCheck the rules. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Daniele

Firenze Race Team V2

http://www.firenzerace.too.it

DUCATI POWER at the UniversitÃ* di Firenze

[Mr2fastna]

hmmmmmmmmmm, just show up with a DSR and own all day long.

[Andy K]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by V2 - Italy:
Nice to see.
It looks like a single seater car, but the LMP must have two seats?!
http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifCheck the rules. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Daniele
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know that rule... My only question is: Who can really sit in a R8 as a passenger? This was just a quick sketch of something I would like build and race at some club events of some sort. It's not a true LMP car - was never meant to be. I sould've been clearer and said a "LMP-type car". With 1000cc I would never be able to keep up with a MG-Lola, let alone the Prodrive 550 Maranellos or Alex Job 911 GT3s! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Should I ever design a true LMP 900, it would be powered by a Porsche flat-6 twin turbo. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Andris Kanins
McGill Racing Team
2002/2003 Body Design
2003/2004 Suspension