Any news from Formula Student? [Archive]

PatClarke

07-06-2003, 12:58 AM

Hi Scott,
The silence has been deafening. The FS site has nothing, but the event does not finish til Monday, so maybe there is not much to report yet. At least the weather should be okay, with a high pressure zone parked right over the UK.
If anyone has heard anything, there are a few people out here who are interested.
Pat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

Scott Wordley

07-06-2003, 09:18 PM

Come on.... someone must know something....

Regards,

Scott Wordley

http://www-personal.monash.edu.au/~fsae

gtmsracer

07-07-2003, 05:20 AM

http://www.dutracing.nl

They have updated there website. They have all of the results besides endurance and overall winner which are taking place as we speak.

Shamus Yandle
Georgia Tech Motorsports 1998-2003
2001/2002 Formula Student Champions
2002 Formula SAE - 3rd place
2003 Formula SAE - 4th place

PatClarke

07-07-2003, 06:44 AM

Wow, Delft have won design. Congratulation guys, and a real special congratulations to the Swedes from Chalmers whose retro style car is a stunner. Darnit, I wish I had been there, but I am busy doing a Rouelle Seminar instead.
Keep the news coming.
Pat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

ben

07-08-2003, 09:15 AM

Hi there,

Just got back from FS with the Birmingham Uni team. We got 8th overall with 143 from 150 in design (only good enough for 6th !) Delft was a stunner but didn't run. Chalmers was also a stunner until an engine fire on the second lap of the enduro.

We had a brand new davis craig water pump fail in the first enduro stint (which included the 3rd fastest lap of the day). The overheating caused the engine to partially seize such that the starter couldn't turn it over to re-join after the driver change.

New pump and it fired up fine an hour later for a consolation run. We kind of cheered up when we realised it wasn't any of the bits we designed and made that failed, but it was still disapointing.

The reliability overall in endurance was shocking. Only 7 finished, and it was a very surreal afternoon in that sense. Dropping like flies has never been a more appropriate phrase!

Toronto did a stunning job. The retired from endurance with half a lap to go with a blown engine, but their data logger measured the lap at 697 metres vs. 611 that the organisers claimed. They asked for a re-measure, were proved right and this gave them the enduro, and overall win. They're an example to us all, great car, very competitive, but friendly at the same time.

We hope to make it back to Detroit next year, and we'd love to see more of you over here next July, Bruntingthorpe is almost certain to be the venue and the organisation was a vast improvement this year.

Ben

University of Birmingham
www.ubracing.co.uk (http://www.ubracing.co.uk)

Dominic Venieri

07-08-2003, 11:45 AM

Can someone give me info on how Rensselaer (#45) did? From the results page that is up, I see we took 2nd overall, with 6th in AutoX and 9th in design. I guess I'm curious how we did in the enduro to see how that affected the overall points mix.

www.formularpi.com (http://www.formularpi.com)

inamo

07-08-2003, 11:52 AM

The event was infinitely better run than last year, though some of the marshalls aren't always acting in the most sporting manner and at times were a bit jobsworth.

there were an unsually high number of engine failures and a few wheels that fell off. it did add to the suspense somewhat!

Both our cars died on the enduro - 1 because it wouldn't restart due to the fuel filter on the pump getting blocked, the other was simply because it ran out of fuel which was entirely our own fault. we were told we didn't have time to warm the engine up before collecting our fuel, so ended up having to use the cold map which eats fuel and didn't cut out soon enough. the main issue was that we hadn't spent enough time testing though. We'll be learning from that.

It was gutting though, both cars were outstanding, and we've found another great driver almost by accident :-)

Any of you guys from the UK looking to go to Australia this year? shipping cots by sea were about £5000 in 2001 and we can get 4 cars in a container. Maybe we could join forces to get sponsorship to cover the costs?

PatClarke

07-09-2003, 02:42 AM

Wow, I can't believe that...The winner fails in the Enduro and then protests on a technicality over the length of the track ? Surely it was the same for everyone! And even more amazing, the protest was upheld! I wonder how the guys from Rensselaer felt? I have news for all teams, and that is when you get to Australia, the finish line is just that ! No iffs or butts!

Still, congratulations to all, especially those that did 'finish'. Why was the attrition so high? I would love to hear some informed comment (Ben ?)
Sounds like we will hear more about this!
Pat D'Rat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

lancasterracing

07-09-2003, 05:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by inamo:
The event was infinitely better run than last year, though some of the marshalls aren't always acting in the most sporting manner and at times were a bit jobsworth.

there were an unsually high number of engine failures and a few wheels that fell off. it did add to the suspense somewhat!

Both our cars died on the enduro - 1 because it wouldn't restart due to the fuel filter on the pump getting blocked, the other was simply because it ran out of fuel which was entirely our own fault. we were told we didn't have time to warm the engine up before collecting our fuel, so ended up having to use the cold map which eats fuel and didn't cut out soon enough. the main issue was that we hadn't spent enough time testing though. We'll be learning from that.

It was gutting though, both cars were outstanding, and we've found another great driver almost by accident :-)

Any of you guys from the UK looking to go to Australia this year? shipping cots by sea were about £5000 in 2001 and we can get 4 cars in a container. Maybe we could join forces to get sponsorship to cover the costs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which uni are you with inamo? Guess it must be Coventry, Bath, Herts or Leeds.
We at Lancaster are considering making the trip to Australia. Our main stumbling block is capital, so we'd be more than happy to join forces. Send us an email to discuss further.

lancasterracing

07-09-2003, 05:15 AM

Guess I should include my email address then:
lancasterracing@hotmail.com

Michael Jones

07-09-2003, 05:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ben:
Toronto did a stunning job. The retired from endurance with half a lap to go with a blown engine, but their data logger measured the lap at 697 metres vs. 611 that the organisers claimed. They asked for a re-measure, were proved right and this gave them the enduro, and overall win. They're an example to us all, great car, very competitive, but friendly at the same time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congratulations to Toronto. They are a good group - have dropped by their facilities time to time when home for holidays. Very strong team with a nicely design and fast car.

What a way to win though. Totally fair, of course - you design to specifications, and if the course is too big, it's too big. I'm sure they'd rather have just won it outright without an engine failure of course...

---
Cornell Racing
http://fsae.mae.cornell.edu

vinHonda

07-10-2003, 04:57 AM

The truth is, we never blew a motor. The coils overheated and went.......blah.... one by one the engine went from 4 firing pistons to 3 to 2 then 1.

We were absolutely gutted to see the car 1/2 a lap and 5 turns from the finish stop out on track. When we went to cheer on the rest of the teams.....it baffled me that all the good teams out there started to fall off.... I mean...by that point, only 3 cars out of 20 had finished the enduro. I said to myself "whutz up with this track????" First thing that came to mind was the 3 different surfaces, and we thought it was the track length after seeing Baths 2 cars and Helsinki sputter off.

We never officially logged a petition, we just asked for the track to be re-measured. There was a lot of shall we say 'funny business' while we waited for some responses. Up to the point where they had to check that the data logger was in our cost report!!

All in all, the event was fantastic, and I really enjoyed talking to all the great teams that were there. I talked to a lot of great people from all over the place and everyone is extremely friendly at this event.

Thanks to everyone who stopped by to chat it up.

For the Stralsund boyz & girls...... we'll bring Canadian beer 4 u guys next year!!

Cheers

Vinh

University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
www.fsae.utoronto.ca (http://www.fsae.utoronto.ca)

V2 - Italy

07-10-2003, 07:28 AM

We are back to Italy after the FS2003, and we like to thank the great guys from Toronto. It was a pleasure to have the pit in front of them, and we are happy they won FS2003.

About the organization we think it was not perfect (and I understand why many teams from USA didn't come).

The track lenght was wrong, nobody knows which was the real (official) lap length.

We finished the endurance event 30/40 meters before the chequered flag, because of a throttle cable failure. The marshal didn't let us to finish with the cable in our hand, and instead of a 3rd place we finished 15th.

Anyway it was a fantastic experience and we hope to see you all as soon as possible.

Formula Student results updated:
http://www.formulastudent.com/formulastudent.asp?page=news.asp

Daniele

Firenze Race Team V2

http://www.firenzerace.too.it

DUCATI POWER at the UniversitÃ* di Firenze

gug

07-10-2003, 07:39 AM

im sorry, is this an italian disputing the judges (similar to a soccer umpire, no?) decision? i dont believe it. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

btw, im just making a joke, i have no opinion on the judging cause i wasnt there.

- if it isnt coming, you need a bigger tool.

RiNaZ

07-10-2003, 12:15 PM

does anybody here have pictures at the Formula Student 03 to share with all of us?

RiNaZ

V2 - Italy

07-10-2003, 01:45 PM

I have hundreds of photos to share.

We are updating our website, and I'll advice you when we'll be ready. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I could send a photo in attach but I don't know how to do. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Daniele

Firenze Race Team V2

http://www.firenzerace.too.it

DUCATI POWER at the UniversitÃ* di Firenze

vinHonda

07-12-2003, 05:30 AM

Firenze was a great team to have a paddock in front of. Everyone is very friendly and willing to chat it up. I especially liked (it was yours or Ferrara's, I can't remember) the paper towel dispenser/garbage bag holder; a very large and 'too much' contraption.......until I saw Ferrari F1 using the EXACT same thing at Goodwood yesterday!!!

Pics to come as soon as we get back home on Sunday!

I'd like to hear thoughts on the event from other teams who attended as well.

Vinh

University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
www.fsae.utoronto.ca (http://www.fsae.utoronto.ca)

inamo

07-15-2003, 11:35 AM

Lancasterracing have sent you an e- mail

PatClarke

07-16-2003, 01:44 AM

Hi,
Earlier in this thread, I was somewhat critical of the FS event being won after a protest on distance.
Well, yesterday, by nefarious means, I obtained a complete set of results, and have had to somewhat change my tune.
Whereas, I am still somewhat sceptical of protesting over an issue like distance, in this case the result was the best team won. Behind Toronto was a long daylight gap before the next finisher. Congrats Toronto http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
What was a little worrying was how quickly the performance fell away behind the winner? What went wrong this year? Has anyone got any thoughts?
I would like to hear any thoughts on the Design winner being a non runner? Maybe the Design event should be held AFTER enduro ?
Pat D'Rat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

inamo

07-16-2003, 01:56 AM

You'll see my earlier post about the poor performance of the Leeds cars. Our main problem this year was a shortage of people to get the work done resulting in rushed and therefore poor build quality and insufficient testing time. On a more positive note both cars looked outstanding for the sections of enduro they completed :-) We'll be learning from this next year.

I think there was a lot of bad luck, only 7 cars completed the endurance with a higher than usual proportion of cars losing wheels and having engine problems. The Chalmers car blew up quite spectacularly. There were rumours circulating the pits as to why this was but I don't wish to air them here in writing.

I think the Delft car did a lot to wake people up and see what can be done in terms of weight saving and was a worthy winner in that sense. They were still finishing the car at the event and had no test time. It seems they spent so long on the design that they didn't allow enough time to build the car. I can see logic that the car should be running for the design event, but equally for those teams who've put a lot of effort in with minimal resources and haven't got a running car could end up with no points at all.... On one hand this is fair, but then having been deeply involved in the SAE project for the last three years I know how much effort goes into making a car and credit should be given for that.

That's my thoughts anyway! I think eveyone will have learnt from the event and hopefully pass that information on to next years teams.

Igor

07-16-2003, 04:24 AM

The problem with the Delft car was time planning (again).
We have quite a high throughput on people which makes it hard to explain the concept of deadlines (it never works for exams either :-)

Our engine was running fine on the dyno, but when we moved it to the car we had a bunch of small problems getting the engine to run. Intermittent engine failures can have too many causes and looking for them takes time. Two days extra would have probably fixed it.

Too bad really, the car weighed only 137kg without fuel and coolant. (that's about 305lbs for the metric-challenged) It would have been interesting to see how much the weight would have helped on the dynamic events.

Igor
www.dutracing.nl (http://www.dutracing.nl)

PatClarke

07-16-2003, 06:03 AM

Igor, there is always a nice warm sunny event where you can try your car. Its in december, so you have plenty of time to finish and test and raise the fare to Adelaide =]
Pat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

John Gregor

07-16-2003, 06:17 AM

137kg is extremely light, a great effort. But how can a car that hasn't done some testing win the design event? How can you answer the questions that the judges put to you? I agree with Pat the design contest should be after the dynamic events.

Johjes

07-16-2003, 09:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by inamo:

I think there was a lot of bad luck, only 7 cars completed the endurance with a higher than usual proportion of cars losing wheels and having engine problems. The Chalmers car blew up quite spectacularly. There were rumours circulating the pits as to why this was but I don't wish to air them here in writing.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a brief explanation of what happened to the Chalmers car at
http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~formula/

The fire also rendered our driver and team leader a chat with the two BBC girls :-)

/Jesper

Wouter Mollers

07-16-2003, 10:12 AM

Well John, I agree with you that it's a bit strange you can win the Design event without actually participating in any dynamic event (due to technical difficulties in this case). During the award ceremony there was also a similar remark on this subject by Chief Design Judge Ian Milburn.
But to answer your question; we have tested a lot of our components prior to giving a final 'green light' for use on the car. This probably gave them enough confidence that the car won't break in half for example at the first corner! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The key factors in obtaining this weight of 137kg were determining all loads (and using this in the form of correct load cases), designing every part on the car (to the last bolt) and simply the will to put in a big effort! We could have made it lighter because we've also employed strict demands regarding stiffness. We haven't decided yet whether to concentrate on next years car or also to bring the DUT03 to Formula Student 2004, but some serious testing will start soon!

Cheers and see you in 2004!

Wouter Mollers
Suspension Manager DUTRacing 2003

vinHonda

07-16-2003, 06:42 PM

The track was run over 3 surfaces and was quite bumpy over some sections. There was only one straight, and one partial straight.

I've always believed that we are all students building these things..... only testing, and lots of it, will tell you if something will break. Those who finished the Enduro on pace had a lot of testing done and were very experienced in terms of preparing the car to the meticulous details to disallow anything silly to go wrong during the enduro.

I saw some really great cars out there this year that just through silly mistakes costed them the Enduro. However, the quality of the teams in terms of team work and organization are brilliant. Everyone has a real sense of passion for motorsports.

The Delft car was a really really pretty car. I would really like to see it work on track. (Perhaps we'll both be down under in Dec?!) But for small budget teams like ours, we could never have afforded any of the beautiful things they had.

The design judging was definitely strange.... only 3 points separated us and Delft.... Its not really like that in the US.

Any way I see it..... It was still a fantastic event and hopefully we can find the resources to make it to the Australian event.

Vinh

University of Toronto Formula SAE Racing Team
www.fsae.utoronto.ca (http://www.fsae.utoronto.ca)

Mi_Ko

07-18-2003, 04:33 PM

Hello

This was my first year at the event. It was wery well organized, the judges were very friendly and all other people too.

I'm very sad because just a few cars finished the endurance. We all know how much work is behind such a car.

The best designed car was that from Chalmers, but technicaly the car from Delft was the best. But you must see the cer from delfi.

We had very bad luck. Our car run out of fuel on the halft of the first lap. Somebody droped a peace of rubber in our tank, which blocked our fuel line. Maybe it's a sabotage (at home?) or our failure, we don't know exatly.

But we learned a lot from other teams. It was a great expirience. I saw a lot of parts, from which we can only dream from. (money!)

See you next year. - hopefully

2002/03 University of MARIBOR - Team Member

V2 - Italy

07-20-2003, 01:57 PM

The Delft car was a pretty car, but it doesn't make sense to me, to win the Design Event without finishing (starting) the Endurance.

I think that if a car doesn't complete the 70% of the race, it should be penalized in Design. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I'd like to know if the judges in Detroit work in the same way of the ones in UK.

Daniele

Firenze Race Team V2

http://www.firenzerace.too.it

DUCATI POWER at the UniversitÃ* di Firenze

Charlie

07-20-2003, 02:40 PM

No, the Detroit judges would not have allowed an untested car to win design. See Detroit 2001, when the WWU car was in design finals but did not win. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)
5th Overall Detroit 2003
? Overall Aussie 2003. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RiNaZ

12-03-2003, 11:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Suddenlee:
Wow, Delft have won design. Congratulation guys, and a real special congratulations to the Swedes from Chalmers whose retro style car is a stunner. Darnit, I wish I had been there, but I am busy doing a Rouelle Seminar instead.
Keep the news coming.
Pat

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does anybody here have pictures of the construction of the Chalmer's car (especially the bodywork)? I must say ... that's the most beautiful car i have ever seen (FSAE and FS).

RiNaZ