What features do you want in an engine management system?

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Hello,

My name is Brian Lewis and I am one of the founders of Performance Electronics, Ltd. We design and build engine management systems, many of which will be used at this year's competition.

The reason for this post is that I would like to get a feel for what features are most important to FSAE teams. We are currently taking a look at what enhancements to incorporate for the next revision and would like some feedback.

- Is cost a big driving factor?
- How about programming with something other than a laptop? We are in the proccess of developing some code that would run on a palm pilot. This would allow you to tune and also log data.
- Customer support?
- What else? let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)
"Complete engine management systems for $760"

[Bam Bam]

#1 a system that is easy to install and easy to tune is really important for most FSAE teams.
The computer programming skills of the average FSAE engine guy probably arent' the hottest. And if they are, we get really ticked when we have to use em.

Well written instructions containing the description and application of all calibratable variables is important.

A simple intuitive hand pendant has been a god send on our current EMS. We usually don't get around to the coolant temperature compensation tables for cold starts but when it's -50 this year in detriot it'll sure be nice to just pull out the pendant and crank up the fuel to get her started.

High resolution is nice, More than 8 x 8 fuel and spark maps, however it should also have a nice interpolation function so that a team can race on a rough tuning and not have any holes in the map.

Compatibility with stock trigger systems would save a whole lot of mysterious timing problems. These things tend to get pissy when you have to custom make them.

overall fuel trim addtions,

Individual injector trims (with a very rough rpm air load map) Home made intakes typically don't balance the cylinders as best they could.

TPS based fuel and spark enrichment/advancement

A tach output connected to a small digital display.

A knock sensor that works with bike engines. I know sensors are tuned to a certain frequency and when it sees a frequency associated with knock it starts pumping out some good spikes, However I'm assuming this changes depending on the engine block. So ripping a sensor out of my buddies toyota probably isn't going to work. But maybe one will work for say most 600 cc motorbike engines.

high frequency easy to use Datalogging capabilities that can be exported to excel.
Test data is GOLD.

A set of basic sensors pre calibrated for the system. Ie coolant air temp, map

I could probably go on for awhile longer I'm just tired.

What do you turbo guys want to add?

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

Thanks Bam Bam, I appreciate the response. Please see below:

"A simple intuitive hand pendant....."
-I think we will add this.

"High resolution is nice, More than 8 x 8 fuel and spark maps..."
- We have 16x16 tables. For everything that we have seen so far this has been sufficiant.

"however it should also have a nice interpolation function so that a team can race on a rough tuning and not have any holes in the map..."
- We recently included this feature

"Compatibility with stock trigger systems would save a whole lot of mysterious timing problems."
- Are you talking about working with the stock 2-wire sensor? Our system will do this but you have to use a wheel that we provide. The wheel so far has fit into the stock location on all of the bikes. It's just a bolt on swap.


"A tach output connected to a small digital display."
- That's a good idea. What is that worth to the average SAE team?

I think that we have included everthing else on your list except the knock detection. So far we have stayed away from this because of the reasons that you stated and because the human ear is much better at detecting knock than a microphone. My experience has been that people tend to overcompensate for knock, thus hurting performance.

Again, thanks for the comments. Are there any more out there? We appreciate any feedback.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)
"Complete Engine Management Systems for $760"

[James Waltman]

Cost is probably the number one thing on our list. We are always very short on cash and an engine management system is one of the very few things that we can't build ourselves.

Openness and customer support are very helpful to a FSAE team. I have been very impressed by Taylor (drivelines and cv joints) and Torsen (differentials). They are willing to share a lot of information with the teams.

I think that the palm pilot compatibility could be a useful thing.

Bam-Bam had some good ideas. I think that a digital tach would be great. It should be an option that teams can purchase in addition to the base unit.


James Waltman
waltmaj@cc.wwu.edu
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/
Formula SAE
Vehicle Research Institute at
Western Washington University

[Angry Joe]

For the love of God, please include an ignition system that is compable with bike coils!

We're on our third ignition setup with an E6S. and are still hitting a rev limiter at 11k. I'm pretty much looking for an excuse to kill someone right now.

Lehigh Formula SAE

www.lehigh.edu/~insae/formula (http://www.lehigh.edu/~insae/formula)

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For the love of God, please include an ignition system that is compable with bike coils!

We're on our third ignition setup with an E6S. and are still hitting a rev limiter at 11k. I'm pretty much looking for an excuse to kill someone right now.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Angy Joe,

Are you using inductive or CDI coils? If the stock coils are inductive you should be able to drive them with any automotive igniter. We just drive inductive coils directly from our ECU.

I agree, if you are trying to drive CDI coils inductively, you may have problems because of the smaller turns ratio on the CDI coils. Have you tried just using inductive coils with your system? We have had good luck with the Honda F4 coils (coil on plug) and Aceel wasted spark coils on Yamahas and Hondas.

If you think that I may be able to help, contact me off the forum at brian@pe-ltd.com or (513) 777-5233. I am curious to find out what your problem is.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd
www-pe-ltd.com
"Complete Engine Management Systems for $760"

[King Missile]

One thing that I have seen here at work that would be great on an FSAE car is to make the Palm/PocketPC your dash. We use Compaq Ipaqs that interface with our EDAQ data aq. units. The IPAQ can display any channel that the EDAQ is monitoring. In an FSAE car it can display info to the driver that is race oriented (Temps, RPM, etc.) or test oriented (holding a certain Throttle Position for example). If youre already working on the code it should be easy to create a display for this. This would be far more valuable that simply a tach output.

Where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket?!

[Alfonso Ochoa]

Hi, I'm from Universidad Simon Bolivar in Venezuela and this is our second year in the competition, both using the stock ECM. But I think that simplicity is a really big feature for SAE's team, in matters of installation and tunning. As I said I've not been through those kind of troubles but I think getting your engine running as fast as possible is really important.

I agree with Bam bam in many things, the anti-nock sensor, the RPM output to a digital display, the TPS based enrichment are some good ideas, as well as the exportable data files to excel is a great feature.

I found company support is really important for us (or for me at least) that are unexperienced with this systems, as well as good written instructions.

Again as we're using the stock ECM, I don't know if the majority of the systems use a Lambda sensor for tunning, I've been discussing with a friend that this would be a really important sensor for tunning the mixture ratio.

An easy to switch map system would be great. Maybe incorporate a programable memory of 3 or 4 mixture maps (one with high RPM power, another optimizing fuel consumption, another optimizing low-end torque, etc for example) inboard that can be switch easily (even by the pilot) would look really atractive (maybe that feature will fit more in a street car).

Engine temperature compesation with the fuel mixture would be great. In case having a high temperature in your engine, maybe enrich the mixture will help you fixing this.

That's just some ideas. I'd like to hear the turbo guys too.

Alfonso Ochoa Vega
cabezota311@hotmail.com
F-SAE USB Team, Venezuela

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

I like the Palm Pilot dash display idea. How many other teams out there think that an electronic dash would be worth the $100 or so for a palm pilot?

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)
"Complete Engine Management Systems for $760"

[Dominic Venieri]

what would be cool, would be if the dash output could be run on the palm at the same time as a g cube, so that accel data could be logged at the same time...

www.formularpi.com (http://www.formularpi.com)

[Dan Deussen @ Weber Motor]

I am huge fan of PDA's but I haven't seen one that has a display that is easy to read outside in bright sunlight. I don't think it's quite so much of an issue in a regular street car with a roof above your head but in an open cockpit car it is a whole different story and what good would all the info on the display be if you can't read it. Just something to keep in mind and try out before you go through all the hassle and write the code for it.

Daniel Deussen

[Bam Bam]

And access to the source code or at least have an open code section and the main variables. rpm map fan on off etc.

Just in case we've done somethin real fancy....

mmmoooohahahhahahahaahah!!!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[A Reinke]

-idle air / bypass motor control: we haven't used this in the past, but it is an idea tossed around this year. big names like Motec and Electromotive support it.
-coil on plug support: Motec requires a seperate spark controller box ($1000) to use the coil on plug.
-option to control more than 4 injectors: that'd be nice.
-a friendly GUI: always nice when working on a computer.

i like the idea of a tach output. the palm pilot dash thing might be overkill in my opinion...but it could have its advantages.

~AOD

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
-idle air / bypass motor control: we haven't used this in the past, but it is an idea tossed around this year. big names like Motec and Electromotive support it.
-coil on plug support: Motec requires a seperate spark controller box ($1000) to use the coil on plug.
-option to control more than 4 injectors: that'd be nice.
-a friendly GUI: always nice when working on a computer.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We currently support all of the above. You can do coil on plug without any external drivers with the PE-ECU-1 (4-cyl). Any other suggestions out there?

Is there anybody left that still needs a system for competition? Thanks for all of the input.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)
"$760 Engine Management Systems"

[A Reinke]

your ECU that can do coil on plug ignition can control 8 injectors sequentially?

[MoTeC]

FSAE SEMINAR

"Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it." Goethe

DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW?

Modern racing has become extremely competitive. It's not only about finding the correct set up, it's also about understanding why a set up change is working or not, knowing how to quantify this advantage and knowing how to reduce the time and money spent on the racetrack to find the best set up. These seminars allow participants to improve the skills required to understand, analyze and predict racecar performance, which translates to faster lap times and better results.

MoTeC are pleased to announce that we have been able to secure Claude Rouelle for two dates, and have scheduled TWO Special FSAE Seminars for 2003, due to the success of last years course. To enable us to conduct the two seminars, we would require 35 participants at each ven http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifue, with a maximum limit of 50 at each, so to register your booking ensure you get in early to avoid disappointment.
These seminars are scheduled to take place as follows:

Melbourne: June 9th, 10th & 11th 2003
Sydney: July 7th, 8th & 9th 2003

The seminar will be conducted over three days, with the MoTeC Engine Management & Data Acquisition seminar held on the first day, and the two-day Race Car Dynamics and Data Acquisition Seminar, presented by Claude Rouelle, on the following days.

SEMINAR TOPICS INCLUDE:
"¢ The nature of performance "¢ Kinematics "¢ Definitions and terminology "¢ Dynamics
"¢ Forces and characteristics of tires "¢ Dampers "¢ Data acquisition "¢ Aerodynamics etc...
TWO Special FSAE Seminars for Australia - presented by Well know Race Engineer Claude Rouelle
Cost for the seminar will be approximately $450.00 (TBC) per person for the three days. Cost is inclusive of the three -day course, all relevant course notes and documentation, and lunch/am/pm teas. To reserve your booking now or for more information please email donna.arbuckle@motec.com.au or phone +61 39761 5050.

For more information on Claude's Seminars and testimonials, please take a look at the following link attached http://www.motec.com.au/pdf/claude8p.pdf and our website www.motec.com.au (http://www.motec.com.au)

Please note: This seminar is strictly for students.

"I thought that the seminar was excellent. It provided key information to understanding, analysing and improving the design of F SAE (and other) vehicles, and in a way that motivated the students to integrate this knowledge into their projects. " Dr Oliver Kennedy – Professor at Wollongong University

"His ability to reduce most technical situations to mathematical equations makes it easier for students to quantify the design decisions they make. I would recommend a Rouelle Seminar to anyone interested in the technical aspects of motorsport, whether they are involved or not."� Pat Clarke – SAE Tech Advisor

Donna

[This message was edited by MoTeC on March 06, 2003 at 10:10 PM.]

[James Waltman]

Brian Lewis,
I really appreciate your willingness to listen to the teams and work with us for improving your product. We don't have your system this year but you've been so supportive of everyone on this board that we may have it next year (and the price is right). This thread seemed like an honest dialog between the teams and someone interested in helping out and making a better product.

Motec,
To post your commercial on this thread is quite rude. Then you turned around and started two other commercials, I mean threads. Step up to the plate - start a discussion with the teams and find out how you can help us, it may help your cause.

James Waltman
waltmaj@cc.wwu.edu
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/
Formula SAE
Vehicle Research Institute at
Western Washington University

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

James,

Thanks for the support. The truth is FSAE is a great place for us to feedback for improving our product.

As for the question asked by AOD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> your ECU that can do coil on plug ignition can control 8 injectors sequentially?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We currently don't support enough drivers to do this. We can run 8 injectors batch but not sequentially.

Thanks for the feedback.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
Engine Management Systems
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)

[Nazim]

Mr. Lewis,
A group of students from malaysia had asked me to post this question for you.

They wanted to know if the manual is sufficient enough for them to learn it by themselves without any proper guidance. If not, then how do they go about in communicating with you having to be on the other side of the world? Is email an efficient way for you or do you have a branch somewhere in Asia that they could contact?

Im sorry if you dont understand the question. Im trying to translate word for word from Malay to English (im originally from malaysia but a resident here in daytona beach). Im still working on my Malay language.

I think basically what they want to know is, is the system easy enough to operate that they dont have to call you up all the way from malaysia. And is there any crash course that they could attend if you have any branch somewhere in Asia.

Mr. Lewis, i have a question too. I rarely go back to malaysia, but the last time i was there i remember that the MicroTech engine management system was far cheaper than your system, i think less than USD500. What's the difference between your system and MicroTech?

jangan bosakan kengkawan ...

[Frank]

ive only seen motec M4 pro in detail, and perused a few other products

i cant imagine having less features available than what there is available there...

i like the system very much

the gui's ok.. conservative .. old school

we'll give motec money again this year BUT... perhaps not the next year.. because

the support from motec themselves was very ordinary (they should consider themselves lucky to have people like Paul Masterton)

the support from Paul Masterson was excellent,
he has sometimes a gruff grump exterior, i admit i might be less patient with a bunch of uni students http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (we deserved it)

in 15 years time, how many australian customers do MOTEC believe WONT have been FSAE students?.. we will have very vivid memories of our first (difficult) encounter with you...

data exported as text file.. must have...
for gods sake we can manipulate data ourselves,
and the motec "interpreters"... average....

i had to do a screen shot, print, OCR scan http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

manual writen logically, detailed, and which progresses through from concept to explicit detail.... the motec manual we have (notes from a training course) is complete garbage.. writen by eggheads.. and the egghead terminology...average

i actually felt compelled to write my own manual about initial set up of crip, mode, and %sync for future students at my school, out of pity...

a few worked examples of setups in the manual (not just one)

i agree motec you're quite rude to drop commercials in this thread....

[This message was edited by Frank on March 07, 2003 at 10:51 AM.]

[Mechanicaldan]

Brian,

First off, I would like to thank you for your willingness to help everyone (including me), regardless of their engine management system. (This will be a serious consideration for next year.) Nowdays when I can get anything cheap by looking on the internet, I want GREAT customer service because things are technical and I need answers to questions. I do pay more for GREAT customer service.

We are running a DTA E48EXP ECM this year, because we bought it to use last year, but never got set up in time for competition. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

DTA has their windows software available for free download at www.dtafast.co.uk (http://www.dtafast.co.uk)

This year we have our engine up and running on a dyno stand and still getting a feel for engine tuning and dyno loading. I feel the E48EXP is a solid piece of hardware, but the window software needs improving.

Here's what I do like, and would be helpful for consideration Brian.
1. There is a dyno control box. We were fortunate enough to come across the wiring pinout and make our own for about $30. DTA charges $250 for a box that hooks between the ECM and laptop. It has two pots for ADV/RET timing and fuel, and three buttons for engine kill, knobs on, and enter. We just played with it this morning, and it's speeds up tuning A LOT!!!
2. Traction control. We are looking at DTA's P8Pro because of this feature. It can monitor all four wheel speeds.
3. I like the ability to see a 3_D map on the same page as the fuel and ignition maps.
4. Data can be imported into Excel.

What's bad about the software?
1. Having to close windows to save anything.
2. Crashes enough for me to write this.
3. Only logs data for about 3 minutes. I would like 20-30 minutes worth.

Suggestions:
1. Sell wireless modems so we can adjust while the car is out on the track driving. Wireless serial port modems?
2. Waterproof connections. Formula SAE cars will be running in the rain from now on.

The PDA track side tuner is a nice thought, but I want a big screen when I'm tuning, so no thanks. I also feel the PDA screens may be difficult to see in direct sunlight. I could be wrong depending on which PDA is used. LCD tach and water temp would be nice though.

Cyclone Racing
www.cyclone-racing.com/fhome.htm (http://www.cyclone-racing.com/fhome.htm)
Iowa State University
Engine Team Leader

[This message was edited by Daniniowa on March 09, 2003 at 12:48 AM.]

[MoTeC]

Hi Guys,
My name is Mark McCoy and I work at the MoTeC Research Centre in Victoria Australia. I have been reading through this forum an I hope to be able to up our level of support. I went through university before there was a FSAE competition here so I am rather jealous of you guys. I must appologise for the advert that was put on the forum it was not my idea to come across like that.

Anyway, I am really pushing your cause here at the office because I really beleive this FSAE is a brilliant idea and I think from my position I can help. One thing you have to remember is that the MoTeC phyilosophy is to do things properly but of course all our software and functions are designed from our point of view but of course we are always open to suggestions as it is the end user who has to make it work.

Also I know about the user manuals, they are a bit out dated but if anyone has bought an M800 lately you will see that all is changing.

The commment about needing a $1000 external device to run coil on plug is, I'm afraid, COMPLETELY WRONG, we have multiple outputs on all of our ECUs to run these type of systems, you must remember that you need to by the ECU that suits the requirements of the engine you have to run.....most buy purely on price and this can sometimes lead to disapointment, you guys do too much R and D to skimp on equipment (sorry its as simple as that).

As for support, the dealer is the first line of support, you guys in QLD had some problems at the start, mostly due to the fact that this was a new catagory in Australia but I have been to the last two races and answered as many questions as were asked. If you did not ask a question you will not get an answer. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My email is always available (mark.mccoy@motec.com.au) and I will be visiting this forum as much as possible so feel free to ask what you will.

Donna

[Nazim]

Mr. Motec, in your ad, you didnt mention if the 450 is in dollars or australian dollars. How much would it cost to attend the seminar in sydney for a FSAE student?

I will be in malaysia over the summer, so i thought i'll stop by australia for the seminar.

jangan bosakan kengkawan ...

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

This is in response to Nazim's question last week.

Nazim,

I believe that our manual is pretty straight forward. It should be the only thing that the students in Malaysia need to get started especially if anyone has experience with fuel injection or engines in general. I would suggest that they download a copy from our web site to see if it all makes sense. Go under "Support" to get a copy. You can also get a copy of our tuning software from the same location. This is also available. Chances are if they understand the manual and the software, they will be in good shape.

We only have offices in the U.S. and email is an excellent way to reach us.

Also, I am not familiar with the MicroTech system. If you have a web address or a data sheet you could send to me I would be happy to compare and contrast the two systems.

If you have any other questions don't hesitate to contact me off list (brian@pe-ltd.com)

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)
Complete Engine Management Systems

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Here's what I do like, and would be helpful for consideration Brian.
1. There is a dyno control box. We were fortunate enough to come across the wiring pinout and make our own for about $30. DTA charges $250 for a box that hooks between the ECM and laptop. It has two pots for ADV/RET timing and fuel, and three buttons for engine kill, knobs on, and enter. We just played with it this morning, and it's speeds up tuning A LOT!!!
2. Traction control. We are looking at DTA's P8Pro because of this feature. It can monitor all four wheel speeds.
3. I like the ability to see a 3_D map on the same page as the fuel and ignition maps.
4. Data can be imported into Excel.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


DANINIOWA,

Thanks for the suggestion above. As for #1, we have already included this ability and you don't need a dyno control box. All you need are two $0.50 potentiometers from radio shack. You can just hook these directly into the system for changing the timing or fuel on the fly with knobs. We also have a "kill engine" feature in the software to allow you to stop the engine with out killing the ECU.

We are currently working on the ability to view the 3-D maps in real time as you change the tables. Currently you need to invoke another function to do 3-D graphics but the plots are there.

Both the data that can be stored on the PC and the tuning files can be imported into Excel. We tried to keep things simple by just using text files. That makes them easy to view and modify.

We currently use waterprrof connections.

As for traction control, we may consider adding this as a feature for next year.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)
Complete engine management systems.

[James Waltman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoTeC:
Hi Guys,
My name is Mark McCoy a
.....most buy purely on price and this can sometimes lead to disapointment, you guys do too much R and D to skimp on equipment (sorry its as simple as that).
Donna<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I will agree that a lot of teams (ours included) skimp on the ECU. The cheapest Motec is more than our entire cash budget. Courtney Waters said it about his team and I would have to agree with it for ours: our primary sponsor may well be Team Financial Aid Racing (aka school loans). We don't really have a choice but to skimp.

Maybe Motec could make FSAE a spec class like Briggs & Stratton did for Mini Baja. Just donate an ECU to every registered team...

James Waltman
waltmaj@cc.wwu.edu
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/
Formula SAE
Vehicle Research Institute at
Western Washington University

[MoTeC]

Dear Jangan bosakan kengkawan

The cost of the Australian Melbourne and Sydney Seminar is $450 Australian Dollars. This includes lunch, Morning and Afternoon Tea for the duration of the three days and all relevant course notes that you get to keep.

The FSAE seminar consists of a MoTeC Seminar on Engine Management and Dash Logger Systems the first day, followed by two days of Vehicle Dynamics and Data Acquistion presented by Claude Rouelle.

If you require any more information please feel free to contact me on donna.arbuckle@motec.com.au

Thanks

Regards

Donna

[MoTeC]

I know what you mean James,
I have been trying to get teams to purchase M800's to start with, and no this is not for big bad MoTeC to make more money (I am not a sales man I am an Engineer) but more so that you have way more options than you think you need at the time. The first year I was looking after the FSAE a lot of teams went for M4's, ok, it will run your engines standing on its head. Next year rolls around and they are all asking me if there is an upgrades for more inputs, faster logging, more logging memory etc. The M4 is an engine management unit with some more inputs and outputs that you can use for developement, as a complete car developement tool you will quickly run out of options, not a problem if you have an ADL as well. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The M800 has much more options when it comes to developement....you reallly, really need to by the equipment based on what you want to do. A lot of you guys are doing side projects based on the race car and need a bit more than just something to run the engine. Please know guys I'm on your side, I went to uni and was only given $250.00 to build a milage marathon car using a heap of unsuitable hand me downs but we still did it.

Donna

[Dave Cook]

Bill

How about more outputs, you have four. I have an led tach that uses 6 lights, one for low RPM and 5 progressive lights.

Dave

[Dave Cook]

I had you down as Bill

Dave

[PS]

Hi,


I think having staged injectors would be a big help, especially for turbo engines. Also, this might sound a little like over doing it, but a turbo ALS (anti-lag system option). The ECU would obtain a signal from the MAP sensor when there is high vacuum in the manifold, which corresponds to a closed or small throttle position, and then retard the ignition timing and inject more fuel so that during blowdown you would shoot a high energy charge to the turbo to keep it spooled.

They use this in WRC (World Rally), but the main disadvantage is you can cook your turbine plus you would need a well manufactured and design exhaust system, ex. stainless steel, ceramic coating etc. It would then be beneficial to also include a way to control the ALS, turning it off-on. SDS has this option in their units.

This is just a suggestion, some people might think it's crazy but if you can keep that turbo spooled, there certainly is an advantage. Plus it would be interesting to see FSAE cars blowing fire balls out their exhausts during competition.

Peter