Design Report Images

[Denny Trimble]

Finally, we're done with the design report! I've spent way too long working on these images, so I thought I'd share them with everybody here. We're pretty proud, this is a revolutionary design for us from the top-level on down to most components.

University of Washington Design Images (http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/dsnrprt-images/index.html)

Anybody else care to share theirs?

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[PatClarke]

Wow Denny, after all the rubbish I had to wade through on the 'plane from Australia last year, you can't believe how pleased I am that at least one team heard what I had to say about illustrations that actually showed the judges what your car was all about.
Congratulations mate, Magnificent!!!
PDR

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

[Frank]

Denny, do you mind me asking exactly how you came up with these images?

are they from a package that specialises in rendering solid models?

or are those images from the CAD package itself?

Frank

[Frank]

a question for Pat..

these "drawings" ..

i remember people saying DONT use 3D renderings, DO use drafts

should this be modified to read ONLY use 3D renders if they are good.. otherwise use drafts?

regards

Frank

[Brent Howard]

Very nice Denny, good job.

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[Big Daddy]

The only thing I can say is Damn!!!!!!
Those are nice. What program did you use to do that?

"A woman is a lot like a beer, they look good, smell good, and you would run over your own mother to get one." Homer Simpson

[RFR Joe]

Damn Denny, I don't think I'd share our photos after seing those. And we were really proud of ours..... tried to follow Pat's advice (a first for our team).... but not to that level.... we only had Pro-E available though.... what else did you use? Lightwave/3d-Max/other?

SAE - dream college....Motorsports - dream job

[Ben Beacock]

Left Front (http://www.soe.uoguelph.ca/webfiles/uogracing/photogallery/photo29988/render_left_front_ground_shadows.tif)
Right Rear, right wheels removed (http://www.soe.uoguelph.ca/webfiles/uogracing/photogallery/photo29988/render_right_rear_right_wheels_suppressed.tif)
Haldex Limited Slip Coupling (for AWD system) (http://www.soe.uoguelph.ca/webfiles/uogracing/photogallery/photo29988/render_haldex_prototype.tif)

Not on par with Washinton's but I did do all the modelling myself, except for the haldex unit and a few odd bits.

Ben Beacock
Co-Manager
2004 Gryphon Racing - University of Guelph (http://www.soe.uoguelph.ca/uogracing)

[This message was edited by Ben Beacock on March 02, 2004 at 10:56 AM.]

[Denny Trimble]

Ben,
I like your pictures, for AWD that's a pretty well-packaged car.

Thanks for all the compliments! And thanks Pat for all the tips on the forum and in you FSAE-A newsletter articles.

Our CAD model has 2000 parts in it this year, I couldn't do it all by myself if I wanted to http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The images came out of SolidWorks directly, with layering in Photoshop. We didn't even use PhotoWorks for rendering this year. Just set up the lighting you want in the assembly, get the shading properties right on your parts, and you can get good-looking images.

To get the final images, I set up a drawing file for each view. Then I saved a lineart version (file-saveas-TIF; options: print capture, "C" paper, 300dpi). After that, I changed to shaded mode, removed the wheels, frame, etc. for each view, and saved another TIF. By the way, these were 6600x5100 pixel images, so it took a while but the detail is very good. For layering, I opened up photoshop, pasted the lineart and shaded versions of each view into a PSD, with the lineart on top. Then change the lineart layer blending to "multiply", so you can see the shaded image through the lines. Crop, save as a JPEG, downsize to 50% so the file isn't huge, and off you go.

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[Ben Beacock]

Thanks Denny,

I'm really impressed with how your outlines define the components. I tried the same thing, but get too many lines and it looks cluttered. (I use IDEAS v9)

2000 components is quite a feat! For reference mine is only about 350.

Ben

Ben Beacock
Co-Manager
2004 Gryphon Racing - University of Guelph (http://www.soe.uoguelph.ca/uogracing)

[RiNaZ]

Hey denny, on the management side of the drawings ... how do you spread out the worktask for the drawings? do you have like a CAD group in itself or you have those who are designing their parts, do the drawings?

RiNaZ

[Brent Howard]

Hey Denny,

After looking closer at your drawings I was very impressed by that shifter handle. Definitly a cool looking design. Also, I was wondering what the little cage around that gas pedal is for?? Don't plan on letting the driver take his foot off ever, or is it just so that he/she can pull the throttle back at whatever rate they choose?

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[Denny Trimble]

The shifter knob is from Joe's Racing (http://www.joesracing.com/), a local company that's sponsoring us. We couldn't make one much lighter, and it looks awesome, so we went for the "bling bling" this time.

The funny stuff on the pedals is to prevent stuck throttle incidents. You've all seen the pics from VT, and we had a couple of very close calls due to stuck throttles this summer, and another similar event where the driver's braking foot slid over and held his throttle foot down in the braking zone, unbeknownst to him http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So, with this system, you can pull back on the throttle, and your left foot is prevented from sliding over and holding down the gas. We came WAY too close to some light poles and the end of the parking lot, which were both far off the intended path of the car http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Haven't had an incident since (knock on wood).

Edit: Forgot to answer Rinaz's question.

Rinaz,
Each person on the team is responsible for modeling their parts. The tech leaders and a few other people work on the subassemblies, and then I work on the full vehicle assembly. We've finally figured out a system that works using our FTP server; each technigal group (suspension, engine, drivetrain, driver interface, chassis) makes their own subassembly in their own folder, and the full vehicle assembly just looks for their subassembly. So they can make updates, and the next time anyone opens the FVA, they show up automagically. There's still some risk of overwriting files, but that's only at the tech group level, and they should be communicating with each other already. Also, the subassemblies are mated to the FVA by the vehicle coordinate system, with a minimal number of mates between different subassemblies, which tend to blow up if major changes are made.

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[This message was edited by Denny Trimble on March 02, 2004 at 02:29 PM.]

[PatClarke]

Quote Frank "A question for Pat..
These "drawings" .. I remember people saying DONT use 3D renderings, DO use drafts. Should this be modified to read ONLY use 3D renders if they are good.. otherwise use drafts?"

Hi Frank, normally I prefer drafts because renderings, or screen captures of renderings in low res .jpg format look dreadful and are very difficult for a judge to study, but the object of the exercise is to convey information to the judges as succinctly as possible, and when renderings of the quality of Denny's are used, then I have no problems at all. So, I guess the answer to your question is "Yes". http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
PDR

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

[DY]

Absolutely inspiring. Wish I'd thought of doing that...something for the website I guess. I did give my team captain some hi-res images though, 130 megapixel each.

I was struggling with our Solidworks assembly of only 450 parts. Maybe I have some setting wrong but it'd take like 10 minutes to update drawings or flip from one sheet to another. I can't imagine 2000.

[Marc Jaxa-Rozen]

Wow. What sort of rig do you need to handle 2000 components? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif The P4's at school struggle with 200 parts in CATIA.

Marc
École Nationale d'Aérotechnique

[Denny Trimble]

To have all the parts resolved, you need 1GB of RAM. We work by suppressing all the subassemblies when we save, so the next person to come along just unsuppresses the areas of interest (i.e. front suspension and frame) and they can work rather quickly. It really slows down when everything's unsuppressed.

Our computer is an Athlon 1800+, and it took about 5 minutes to save each print capture. Just enough to do a couple laps in Gran Turismo on the nearby PS1 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[V2 - Italy]

Congratulatios Denny, well done.

It's a pity for us,
we thought we must show only drawings,
so we avoided to use rendered models, that are not so different from the Washinghton ones.

Not so bad, we learned the first lesson http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

V2

Firenze Race Team V2
http://www.firenzerace.too.it
DUCATI POWER at the UniversitÃ* di Firenze

[Frank]

some old stuff (2003 car)
(pre- gas shifter)
(old rear uprights)

about 2/3 way through design (1/2 way through construction) at this stage

http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/rear_iso_1.jpg
http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/rear_iso_2.jpg

and some new stuff (2004)
the suspension CAD is my "dumb suspension", that moves around via a spreadsheet http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

not much final yet, just chassis and suspension geometry

http://www.uq.edu.au/fsae/2004_concept.jpg

[This message was edited by Frank on March 03, 2004 at 04:36 AM.]

[PatClarke]

Hi V2,
There is no need for pity http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
The reason for the drawings is to show the judges the 'togetherness' of your design. Sure, Danny's pix are great, but that alone will not get WWU a win in Design. What those pictures will di is set the judges in a very positive frame of mind about the design.
PDR

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

[Matt Ahl]

Just a note, Denny is from University of Washington, WWU (Western Washington University) is an hour north of us and a different school with their own car.

[gug]

Denny, im dissapointed, the chain looks like a belt! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif just for interest sake, has anyone managed to make a chain in their solid models?

top job, i hope you think imatation is the best form of flattery, cause im going to start using layering in photoshop to do our images now too!

- absolutely everything was available to him, but that only meant it was impossible to find what he was looking for, which is the purpose of computers.

[Denny Trimble]

I spent a day on this last Christmas break. It works, but it's way too slow and resource-intensive. Maybe for next year's design report http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/tanktracks-small.jpg

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[Brent Howard]

Denny,

Why have you moved away from the tube uprights? I really liked this idea last year and tried to get my team to switch because I thought the jigging and manufacture time would be really short with a tube upright. We have continued using sheet metal monocoque uprights, like you have switched to though. I know that the loading on the sheet metal ones is better, but wondering if there is any other reason behind the switch?

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[Denny Trimble]

Basically, our focus for that part shifted from ease of manufacture last year, to stiffness vs. weight this year. The boxed steel uprights take about twice as long to make, but they're not that difficult. That's just the way the compromise went this year.

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[dancin stu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frank:
and some new stuff (2004)
the suspension CAD is my "dumb suspension", that moves around via a spreadsheet http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good to see someone else whos done a spreadsheet, I thought i was the only one to do a kinematics package in Excel!

How close are your results to other packages? I'm quite pleased with mine, surprisingly accurate

[Frank]

I make a "3D"� sketch of the node points.

This drives a spreadsheet.

From the spreadsheet, you get the data for Suspension Analyser 3D, for static setup.

A weight transfer spreadsheet then gives me values for SusA for lateral acceleration accounting for tyre deformation.

The spreadsheet drives a whole assembly of "dumb suspension"� , from which you can check interference etc.

Spreadsheet values are used for maple worksheet to find wishbone forces, and node reactions.

The shocks and sway bars are "drag and drop"� in the Assembly (keeps the "in plane"� constraint).

A few hyper-linked CAD files solve the motion / installation ratio.

***Images Removed***

The idea is to be able to derive a suspension design both mathematically correct and visualised in short time.

I can do this now.

For instance, the hardware (sphericals, rod ends, etc) staying the same, I can derive and visualise a complete geometry in under 30 mins.

If I have to change to pullrod, it's a little longer, because the CAD needs a slight modification, but at worst 2 hrs.

This provides a very flexible environment for chassis design. In a few days we can thrash out a great many designs.

About the only thing that I haven't got is a steering rack that changes, I'm kinda stuck wth it's width in the 3D graphics.. but I like it's width anyhow.

The only thing that can be a little inacurate is the roll calculations in the spreadsheet, because I'm approximating a MDOF system. Provided the non-suspended weight transfer and the geometric weight transfer is small (compared to the elastic weight transfer) ((which is hopefully the case IMO)) the results are ok.

oooohh I feel "exposed" all of a sudden.

[This message was edited by Frank on March 04, 2004 at 09:51 AM.]

[This message was edited by Frank on March 04, 2004 at 01:13 PM.]

[This message was edited by Frank on March 04, 2004 at 04:55 PM.]

[Denny Trimble]

Awesome! You've taken it one step past what we've done. Last year I made up a solidworks/excel macro to drive our pullrod/bellcrank assembly and record the travel and plot IR vs. wheel travel. Then, this summer one of our very ambitious Sophomores wrote a huge spreadsheet where you specify the suspension properties (RC's, VSAL, track, etc.), and it calculates the points required, putting them in a 3D sketch. Then, if you enter spring and mass and acceleration and steering inputs, it runs the car through "virtual corners". Pretty cool for a 2nd-year summer project for no credit.

I guess we'll have to extend it to 3D now to keep up with the aussies http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good job Frank!

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[Frank]

thx Denny,

now i gotta get the other guys to actually draw their parts in detail so we can mass model better and present good design images.

it'd be great to visualise the car going through corners.... that sounds great too

here's something you might find interesting...

http://www.temporal.com.au/motec.htm

dunno if it will make a release.. it would be nice to see though

[Tim Isenberg]

Nice work to everyone. I just thought I'd share pics of our car model up here in Wisconsin. As always, love to hear comments or questions.

http://www.gotocfr.com/fsae/

[Frank]

For the start-up teams...

These type of design tools; using hyperlinks between CAD parts, simple assemblies, and complex assemblies; realises the power of CAD.

The co-operation and ease of iteration between the chassis and suspension geometry is IMO the most difficult and time-consuming task in the initial design process.

If you get it "happening" the design of these cars is so much quicker.

Recently I had the misfortune of trying to use the AutoDesk Inventor software.. (in a "Professional" race team's "design centre")

It was absolutely f***ing useless. A complete joke. There was NO WAY you could do this sort of flexible design using that package.

Get yourself a CAD package that can reliably and easily link between models and external tabular data.

I have used Solid Edge and Solid Works for these type of design assemblies. Both are quite capable of these tasks.

Frank

[Frank]

sweet Tim,

how close is that muffler to the ground?

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Tim Isenberg]

Frank:

Thanks...and its 1.75" off the ground

Tim Isenberg

[Frank]

might that cause heartache in the "noise test"?

just a guess...

but then again i've seen a team (can't remember who) use a tip that "points" directly at the ground

[James Waltman]

Denny,
Those are remarkable. Your pictures in last years design report impressed me but these ones are considerably better. It's a shame that they won't get us a win in Design.

We went with the draft style layout pictures, kind of boring pictures but I'm proud of the car. On our optional page we decided to include mostly pictures of the stuff we made. It was damn hard to limit it to one page worth. I think that I have about 4500 pictures of this car (no exaggeration) and I had a tough time choosing which ones to include.

What have other teams been including on the optional page?

http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/Design_Review_Pics/
First link is in MS Word and has full resolution pictures. The second one is .pdf

Tim, I am a big fan of the UW-Madison car. Nice work. Any other teams willing to share picures?

James Waltman
http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/
Vehicle Research Institute at
Western Washington University

[dancin stu]

Continuing the off topic theme....Interesting to see other peoiples approaches, and how even though people are on different continents, the results are nearly all the same.... Frank, that spreadhseet is almost the same as mine, and a suspect a lot of others, with the exception of the linking to the CAD system, something I think worthwhile investigating.

James, your Sophomores spreadsheet sounds similar to this:

ssv10_1 (http://uk.geocities.com/stuartchamberlin/fsae_pictures/ssv10_1.jpg)

ssv10_2 (http://uk.geocities.com/stuartchamberlin/fsae_pictures/ssv10_2.jpg)

ssv10_3 (http://uk.geocities.com/stuartchamberlin/fsae_pictures/ssv10_3.jpg)

except mines only in 2D, it also includes a very basic kinematic analysis, useful as the parameters are quickly changeable so you can get a starting point very quickly.

This then gets exported via another(!) spreadsheet into ADAMS values, and even though ADAMS calculates roll centres differently, its not too far off. Next on the agenda is to incorporate tyre stiffness into it.

What does everyone do regarding handling? I have created a few more basic spreadhseets for 2D bicycle models, only linear tyres at the minute, and havnt had a chance to quantify how accurate, have tried pair analysis, but havnt got much out of it

edit: hmm, geocities doesnt like remote linking, try

http://uk.geocities.com/stuartchamberlin/fsae_pictures/

[Eric Wort]

Here are a couple of random renderings of UIUC's car. These aren't what was used in the design report though.
http://www.ec.uiuc.edu/soc/sae/formula/img/04car/2004fsaesolid.jpg

http://www.ec.uiuc.edu/soc/sae/formula/img/04car/2004fsaeclear.jpg

Eric Wort
UIUC Formula SAE (http://dilbert.cen.uiuc.edu/soc/sae/formula/)

[UTA racer rikki]

Hey Denny,

Great job on the drawing submissions! They look great! I can't wait to see that car at competition this year. If the pictures are any sample of what the design report is like, I think we should all be watching out for Washington.

Denny, what is the status of your car?? Running yet?

- Erick

FSAE ('99 '00 '01 '02 '03 '04 '??)

[Denny Trimble]

Erick,
Thanks for the kind words. How's your car looking this year?

Our frame sections are being bonded & bolted together tonight, with 80% of the parts ready to bolt on as soon as that's done. We're about a month later than last year's car, but it's a revolutionary change in design and manufacturing for us, so that's to be expected. The next two weeks, we'll be "in labor" delivering this baby http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I can't wait to see it!

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[PatClarke]

Denny,
Check your PM
PDR

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

[Aaron Harnden]

Denny,
Bloody magnificent!!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Would you mind if I post those images on the wall at our university to give our team something to aim for? The judges should be thanking you and your team, you've made their jobs much more enjoyable by elevating the quality of future design report submissions.
Pat,
Is this the standard for the images in the better design reports? If so I'd better crack the whip. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Aaron Harnden
Phantom Engineering
Chief Design Engineer 2004

I may not always be right, but i'm never wrong...

[Denny Trimble]

Aaron,
Sure, feel free to print them out. I did just add a "copyright" to the pages, but any FSAE team can go ahead and print them out.

My intent for posting the photoshop details was to pass-on a tip I was lucky enough to find. We engineers need a little help with this kind of stuff every now and then; it really pays off in the quality of your presentations.

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[UTA racer rikki]

Denny,

We are actually about a week away from having everything bolted to the car. We have all but a handful of parts and then we'll be on track, testing, and enjoying the opportunity to make up grades. Within a few weeks after that, the car should be in competition trim (bodywork, decals, etc.). If I could figure out how to post a picture here, I'd send you our significantly out matched photo from Solidworks. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyways, back the grind...

- Erick

FSAE ('99 '00 '01 '02 '03 '04 '??)

[MikeWaggoner at UW]

Wanna make it huge and post it on your wall? This thing makes dot images in huge size...

http://homokaasu.org/rasterbator/

[eszter]

Originally posted by Denny Trimble:
Finally, we're done with the design report! I've spent way too long working on these images, so I thought I'd share them with everybody here. We're pretty proud, this is a revolutionary design for us from the top-level on down to most components.

University of Washington Design Images (http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/dsnrprt-images/index.html)

Anybody else care to share theirs?

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[Adambomb]

Originally posted by eszter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Denny Trimble:
Finally, we're done with the design report! I've spent way too long working on these images, so I thought I'd share them with everybody here. We're pretty proud, this is a revolutionary design for us from the top-level on down to most components.

University of Washington Design Images (http://students.washington.edu/dennyt/fsae/dsnrprt-images/index.html)

Anybody else care to share theirs?

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A bump of a post that's over 9 years old...I think that's a new record!

[Paul Achard]

Incidentally, does anyone have those UoW renders? I'm really curious now.

[wagemd]

Haha, 9 years is pretty impressive...

I might be able to find them if people are real interested...

[ABCD]

It will be great if you can find out those, we can compare those with present ones.

- Rajat